Please Help Stop A Fountain Pen Thief/fence - Ebay User Dort1463

[kazoolaw]

Transferring stolen goods. I'm pretty sure it's the same in Canada, and I wouldn't wonder that diverse states have kept it in place. That Latin tag I used earlier is "you cannot give what you don't have" is in law specifically because it doesn't matter how many hands a thing passes through; the thief had ho rights in it, so no one down the chain does, either.

"Receiving and concealing" requires knowledge that the goods are stolen.

 

Which is different than acquiring title, or ownership, of the goods. Even then, in certain jurisdictions a bona fide purchaser for value can acquire, and maintain, title even against the original owner.

 

My point was that you can't/shouldn't make behavior criminal without requiring intent. Even in Canada, eh?

 

gary

[kazoolaw]

Yes, I am probably a criminal. Whether I would be prosecuted or not is another story and would depend on whether I should have reasonably know the property was stolen.

Which is inferring intent.

 

gary

[kazoolaw]

None of which is to detract from the OP's original problem, and my sincere hope that the thief is found, and the pens returned.

 

gary

[paultyler_82]

My money is on the ebay seller being the thief or a knowing fence, his history of items sold just seems to be too much of a random grouping of high dollar "used" items selling well under value in many cases. Seems like a big red flag to me.

[Chrissy]

Of course I understand that, if you buy stolen goods no matter how unknowingly you don't get to keep them.

There are many instances of innocent (but naive) people buying stolen cars and just losing all the money when the car is recovered by the rightful owner/insurance company.

I just wanted to point out that Daniel O may not be a thief or a fence.

He might not.

[lahlahlaw]

"Receiving and concealing" requires knowledge that the goods are stolen.

 

Which is different than acquiring title, or ownership, of the goods. Even then, in certain jurisdictions a bona fide purchaser for value can acquire, and maintain, title even against the original owner.

 

My point was that you can't/shouldn't make behavior criminal without requiring intent. Even in Canada, eh?

 

gary

Good ol' mens rea

[Kimo]

Pluralitas non est ponenda sine necessitate. Or to very loosely translate the underlying meaning of this - when you have two competing theories that make the same prediction, the simpler one is usually the one that is true. For example, it is also entirely possible that a leipreachán (leprechaun in English) snuck into the original poster's office and stole them because he coveted the gold nibs and wanted to add them to his treasure. Then later when the leipreachán looked more closely at the pens and saw how little gold there actually was in the nibs, he decided to sell them on Ebay and use the money to buy more gold. Now, this is a possible explanation, it is unnecessarily complicated and is quite unlikely. I'm with those who think that the seller is either the thief or in cahoots with the thief especially since he has made his identity secret in the auctions. An honest seller would have no reason to be doing that.

Edited August 16, 2014 by Kimo

[Namru]

"Unlikely" - cold comfort

And the crime would be?

gary

If the buyer bought the goods in good faith, the CPS wouldn't look for a prosecution. You wouldn't even be arrested. The goods would be seized, along with the money made from the goods he/she has sold on. The buyer could then sue the person he/she bought the goods from in a civil court.

 

But if there is sufficient evidence that he or she bought the goods knowing they were stolen, the CPS could then charge he/she for handling stolen goods and he/she could then face prosecution.

 

If you do not believe that to be fair, then you're lost.

[kazoolaw]

If you do not believe that to be fair, then you're lost.

If you believe that to be accurate you need to read with comprehension.

 

My reply was to a line of posts suggesting you are guilty without such knowledge.

 

Which you disagree with in your post: "But if there is sufficient evidence that he or she bought the goods knowing they were stolen..."

 

Which means you agree with me.

 

Which must be a surprise, no?

 

gary

[migo984]

If you believe that to be accurate you need to read with comprehension.

My reply was to a line of posts suggesting you are guilty without such knowledge.

Which you disagree with in your post: "But if there is sufficient evidence that he or she bought the goods knowing they were stolen..."

Which means you agree with me.

Which must be a surprise, no?

gary

 

None of which helps the OP.........

[Bo Bo Olson]

Three days now .... no cops.....???????

[GTOZack]

I hope someone in FBI like FP and decides to accept this case. Following throughly and send the criminals to the gulag.

[Icywolfe]

Three days now .... no cops.....???????

Well I think because to most regular people "pens" aren't considered high value. So it's at the lowest point of the stack filled with stolen cars.

[Bo Bo Olson]

A smart criminal lives in a doughnut free zone.

[Namru]

If you believe that to be accurate you need to read with comprehension.

My reply was to a line of posts suggesting you are guilty without such knowledge.

Which you disagree with in your post: "But if there is sufficient evidence that he or she bought the goods knowing they were stolen..."

Which means you agree with me.

Which must be a surprise, no?

gary

Charmed. :|

[kazoolaw]

Charmed. :|

I'm sure ;-)

[Downcelot]

Well I think because to most regular people "pens" aren't considered high value. So it's at the lowest point of the stack filled with stolen cars.

 

Law enforcement responses are super slow unless it is a crime like someone shots someone. My friend car got broke in on the street at night time of late summer last year. He caught the thief while he was inside his car. The thief got his friends with him nearby and they had more people than we did. It could lead to a serious fight anytime back then. It was quite a confrontation and the thief's friends were blocking us to let the thief to run away. They had more people. We called 911. It took the cop 1 hour to show up and the thief was long gone because we could not hold on to him.

 

After that incidence, I realize our police emergency response is quite a joke.

 

To OP: I feel sorry for your loss. You know, sometime, sh*t gets real.

 

Edit: By the way, this event happened right at down town San Jose, not middle of Minnesota's forest.

Edited August 17, 2014 by Downcelot

[pen2paper]

a couple of things.. though the sales were marked private, a couple of times the feedback comments circumvents this ploy, Waterman as described..

everyone loves being sumgai, but this is not the sumgai experience any regular person ever wishes to be.

 

Also, making a purchase from a "troubled" person, in self attempt to discern the sellers location, and ID, Then having them gain access to your location would not be a wise move.. just pondering the possibilities thoughtfully gives pause to any action.

 

Being safe, and allowing the people who are trained to deal with such people and issues would be my preference - just thinking out loud here, if this were me, and those dear to me.

You can replace writing instruments. People, and personal safety, no comparison.

Edited August 17, 2014 by pen2paper

[Algester]

and so this thread has been cleanly been forgotten I suppose

[Anirban4u]