Help Me Id Today's Finds?

[Komitadjie]

Made a run up to a local antique place today, and I stumbled over a booth that had a fair number of Shaeffers! I picked up four items that drew my attention, and I'm curious about ID on 'em! None of them fill, of course, but the pencil in the snorkel set works just fine.

 

First, a pen-and-pencil set, open nib, snorkel filler. I think this is likely an Admiral or a Saratoga? The gunk on the barrel is just tape residue, it comes right off with a light rub of denatured alcohol, thank fully, leaving the barrels un-marked. I was a bit worried about that when I picked them up!

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/Komitadjie/PENS-1_zpsa7f09d77.jpg

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/Komitadjie/PENS-2_zps94dbc890.jpg

 

 

Next is a Tuckaway of some kind, touchdown filler, triumph nib. Beyond that I'm completely baffled. The diameter is a LOT larger than the other Triumph pens I have, I've included a picture of it at the end for comparison. The section is also transparent, although rather dark amber at this point. I'm not sure if that's degradation of the plastic with time, or crud on the interior, although I'd probably guess just the plastic breaking down a bit. As you can see, the cap has a fine, engraved pattern on it, as well as an engraved name. The clip is a tiny little thing, and the touchdown tube is hugely fat, and very short.

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/Komitadjie/PENS-3_zpse61b9fc9.jpg

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/Komitadjie/PENS-4_zps4e170421.jpg

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/Komitadjie/PENS-5_zps8b252e2d.jpg

 

 

Last in the list is what I am fairly sure is a Touchdown Imperial, although I have no idea what model. It is also Triumph nibbed, and has three metallic points on the side for the cap's clutch to hold.

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/Komitadjie/PENS-6_zps382796fd.jpg

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/Komitadjie/PENS-7_zpsae2620b5.jpg

 

And here's a quick shot of the different Triumph nibs. The front-most on the gray pen is a Valiant, for reference. The center one is the Tuckaway, and the top one is the Imperial. The sizes are really, really different!

 

http://i1158.photobucket.com/albums/p603/Komitadjie/PENS-8_zps6922f05f.jpg

 

Any help you guys can give me in identifying these would be greatly appreciated. I'm working on determining which ones I should send to a pro for restoration, and which I should work with myself. I'd really like to learn to restore these lovely old pens myself, it looks like a LOT of fun! I just don't want to accidentally hose up some rare, expensive model that I'll want to shoot myself for later out of pure inexperience!

 

EDIT: Forgot to include the picture of the three nibs!

Edited July 12, 2014 by Komitadjie

[Roger W.]

That's a stumper throwing in the three nibs as you introduce a new one.

 

The Imperial is a III I think though I'm learning about imperials myself - I like the IV's. Blue saratoga set looks nice. The tucky will be thicker as it predates the TM (thin model) intro. I don't know the model on that. Nice haul.

 

Roger W.

[pen lady]

Can't help with ID but sticker crud responds well to WD40 or rubbing alcohol.

[Freddy]

Can't help with ID but sticker crud responds well to WD40 or rubbing alcohol.

 

Excellent and safe method is Ronson or Zippo lighter fluid....have been usin' it for decades without

any problemo....................Any alcohol product is good to use on glass..not plastic....I only

use WD40 for what is was designed for....And of course your mileage may vary......

 

 

Fred

[Komitadjie]

Well, got a big 'ol can of Zippo fluid right here for my lighter, so I'll use that, then.

 

Since these photos, I've successfully followed Richard's instructions on Touchdown servicing to disassemble the Tuckaway, remove the ossified sac and O-ring without causing any damage, and flush the nib assembly. The last ink in it was bright blue, incidentally. A good shot of ultrasonic, combined with a 10% ammonia flush has cleaned the nib unit spotlessly, so now I'm just sourcing a new sac and O-ring for it. I have some fresh orange shellac all ready!

 

EDIT: Sacs for both the Tuckaway and the Imperial are on the way, along with O-rings for both. Since I had to buy ten sacs for each, I have nine spares... I'm gonna need more Touchdowns!

Edited July 13, 2014 by Komitadjie

[Ernst Bitterman]

Saratoga Snorkel-- the Admiral had a smaller single-tone point.

 

Sentinel Tuckaway TD, of which there are not huge numbers, but I don't know if it quite goes so far as "uncommon"; certainly not "rare" (unless being described on eBay).

 

The Imperial strikes me as an Imperial III with the cap of a later model like a Triumph 330; the original would have had gold plating and the name on the clip rather than the dot. The pen itself likely doesn't care about its cap, and will write just fine.

[Komitadjie]

Ah, thanks, Ernst! I never knew what distinguished those two models from each other before. Learn something every day, and it's only 8am here so far!

 

Could it perhaps be an Imperial IV? Looking at http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/resources/pen-resources/sheaffer_models_part_2 it appears to be externally identical to the "IV" shown. They don't show it uncapped, though, unfortunately! From there, I'd concur that it's certainly not a III cap, it doesn't have the name on the clip, and the cosmetic band is considerably larger. It fits quite well, though, and neither of the Imperials is particularly rare as I understand, so I'm entirely happy to have just a good-writing pen out of it!

[OcalaFlGuy]

On the lighter fluid idea.

 

Check the container closely for it's ingredients. You WANT to see Naphtha.

 

Ronson reformulated the yellow plastic squeeze bottle stuff to Not have Naphtha in it anymore. I have no idea about the Zippo stuff.

 

I would presume the new formulation is also some sort of petroleum distillate. I have NO idea what that is or if it's as safe for pens as Naphtha. Seems some research is required here with the current blends MSDS sheets.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl-Thankfully I have a seldom used bottle of the old Ronson stuff

[paultyler_82]

Imperial IV's use an inlaid nib. What you have is an Imperial III De Luxe with the correct cap. De Luxes used the plain white dot clip, regular III's use the "Sheaffer'S" clip.

 

I LOVE that Saratoga Snork and Sentinel Tucky, you made a really nice haul on this group.

Edited July 13, 2014 by paultyler_82

[Roger W.]

Ah, thanks, Ernst! I never knew what distinguished those two models from each other before. Learn something every day, and it's only 8am here so far!

 

Could it perhaps be an Imperial IV? Looking at http://www.peytonstreetpens.com/resources/pen-resources/sheaffer_models_part_2 it appears to be externally identical to the "IV" shown. They don't show it uncapped, though, unfortunately! From there, I'd concur that it's certainly not a III cap, it doesn't have the name on the clip, and the cosmetic band is considerably larger. It fits quite well, though, and neither of the Imperials is particularly rare as I understand, so I'm entirely happy to have just a good-writing pen out of it!

It can't be a IV due to the nib though the cap looks to be from a IV - I would think various Imperial parts interchangeable. You can get clear model information from Gary's Targa site which has plenty on imperials. http://www.sheaffertarga.com/Imperial%20and%20Triumph/Imp%20Triumph%20Ref%20List.html

 

I'm actually researching IV's so I had the page up anyway.

 

Roger W.

[Roger W.]

Imperial IV's use an inlaid nib. What you have is an Imperial III De Luxe with the correct cap. De Luxes used the plain white dot clip, regular III's use the "Sheaffer'S" clip.

 

I LOVE that Saratoga Snork and Sentinel Tucky, you made a really nice haul on this group.

I looked at the DeLuxe on Gary's site but the cap band is too wide in my opinion so I think it is a IV cap.

 

Roger W.

[paultyler_82]

I looked at the DeLuxe on Gary's site but the cap band is too wide in my opinion so I think it is a IV cap.

 

Roger W.

 

Good catch, now that you mention it, it is a bit wide. To the OP, measure the cap band, on a correct cap for the trim, it should only be 1/4", any longer, it's likely a IV cap on a III pen.

[Komitadjie]

It's definitely a IV cap, then. I show the band as .375 wide. The angle is poor in the photo here, the calipers moved just a tad as I took the shot.

 

 

 

And this is the Tuckaway as of this morning, broken down and cleaned up, just waiting for the new hardware to show up.

 

[Ernst Bitterman]

I'd forgotten about the III De Luxe-- but it still would have had to be gold- rather than chrome-plating.

[Komitadjie]

Well, after testing it out a bit with water, and finding the filler worked just fine, I decided to give the Franken-perial a shot of Noodler's Black, just to see how it did. I gave the touchdown tube a very light bit of silicone grease right next to the body with the tube fully extended, then twisted gently and cycled it in and out several times to make sure the ring was well-coated. The body threads were leaking just a tad bit, so I gave them a very light bit of grease as well, as a temporary measure until the section sealant from Ron shows up. It takes up ink just fine, no problem at all!

 

A very, very interesting nib. Either this one has been re-worked, or it's the finest nib I've ever used. I'd absolutely love it, width wise, if it wasn't quite so dry. It puts down an extremely consistent but nearly-invisible line, it looks like a very light pencil line. I carefully flossed the nib with some .002 brass sheet, with no notable difference, and it is very thoroughly clean. I'm thinking I might need to very, very carefully spread the tines a bit more. I have feeler gauges with which to do this, I'll just have to work up the guts to give it a shot!

 

I think this one will be getting refitted as well, the parts are already on order, and I'd rather not trust a sac of unknown quality, even though it's holding ink just fine right at the moment.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Komitadjie

[terim]

The Imperial does indeed seem to be an Imperial 2 or 3 body with a 330 cap.

[Komitadjie]

Think it has to be a 3 body, as far as I can tell. The two-tone Triumph point appears to be the indicator there, all the references I've been able to locate show the 2 as having a monotone silver-colour nib.

Edited July 15, 2014 by Komitadjie

[Komitadjie]

And another one here that I'm not sure what it is. Just grabbed it on impulse on the 'Bay, spotted it in the last 40 seconds of the auction and scooped it up for $11. Open nib, touchdown filler, with the box and pen...

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/EVYAAOSwo8hTp0fW/$_57.JPG

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/wAcAAOSwGiRTp0f9/$_57.JPG?rt=nc

 

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/MJ0AAOSwVupTp0gG/$_57.JPG?rt=nc

Edited July 16, 2014 by Komitadjie

[Ernst Bitterman]

Looks like a TipDip Craftsman.

[Komitadjie]

Cool, thanks! Since this I've won two more auctions for similar pens at similar prices. Need some stock to play with if I'm going to learn to re-sac these properly, and I rather like the Touchdown filler.