Line Variation: Stub/cursive Italic V. Flex/soft Nib?

[rwilsonedn]

Re:

"old-timey italic lettering done with quill pens (Declaration of Independence, etc etc)"

The famous handwritten display copy of the Declaration of Independence uses no italic.

 

This may require some clarification. As I understand it, the display copy of the DoI in the Library of Congress is actually a print from an engraving. The engraving was done in a very elegant copperplate style, years after the fact. A manuscript is also there, but it is so faded as to be nearly illegible, so it would be very difficult, I would think, to determine what styles of calligraphy had been present. Certainly common practice in the day would have been round hand, but there seems to have been great variation in styles in those days, even in official documents, perhaps based on the particular clerk, the cut of the pens available, and the pressures of the moment.

ron

[Mickey]

Here is a link to the document itself and the most commonly shown facsimile. Thet are, as they say, close enough to each other for government work and clearly both are in the style generally called round hand, the original executed with a quill. The shape of the quill's point is probably open to some debate, but it is quite possible that it was a very fine chisel shape, not entirely unlike what is now called italic. That said,

 

The style of penmanship was most decidedly NOT ITALIC! Okay?

 

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters_downloads.html

Edited July 11, 2014 by Mickey

[RMN]

Here is a link to the document itself and the most commonly shown facsimile. Thet are, as they say, close enough to each other for government work and clearly both are in the style generally called round hand, the original executed with a quill. The shape of the quill's point is probably open to some debate, but it is quite possible that it was a very fine chisel shape, not entirely unlike what is now called italic. That said,

 

The style of penmanship was most decidedly NOT ITALIC! Okay?

 

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/charters_downloads.html

Nice link, thank you Mickey, quite instructional too for the non-Americans.

 

But Mickey, some people refer to slanted letters as italics, as my word processor produces when I push the I button.

 

The term italics refers to so many different things, that it seems no real reason to get mad about it (where I read your colour choice as anger. Please correct me if I understand wrong)

 

 

D.ick

[Mickey]

Nice link, thank you Mickey, quite instructional too for the non-Americans.

 

But Mickey, some people refer to slanted letters as italics, as my word processor produces when I push the I button.

 

The term italics refers to so many different things, that it seems no real reason to get mad about it (where I read your colour choice as anger. Please correct me if I understand wrong)

 

 

D.ick

 

Sorry, I chose red simply because it stood out - shouted. I nearly chose blue. Would that say I was depressed or cold?

 

As for italic: in the context of pens and penmanship, it refers to a particular style of lettering, one which may or may not be written with a slant, and sometimes to the tools most usually associated with that style, i.e., edged pens. Slant has little to do with the subject. Spencerian is slanted, so is Copperplate, Round Hand, and any number of other hands, none of which are italic.

 

What typographers sometimes call italic, frequently isn't, though many typefaces not bearing the name italic, are. Since this is a forum concerned with pens and penmanship, we can safely ignore typography and get back to our ink slinging.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Mickey

[pajaro]

I prefer the stubs and cursive italic nibs. I have the flexible nibs, but I write left handed and have concerns about damaging them by pushing. I am not always pushing the nib, of course, as I am sometimes pulling it down, but I am not pulling the pen towards me. I just can't make the flexy work in a way that looks anything what I see right handers doing. So, elitists who look down on CIs and stubs, think about it.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I go to German museums for middle ages exhibitions. I am always astounded at the best hand writing of that Generation in Germany from 1100's more 12-1300's with quills, be that goose or more than likely smaller birds.

Writing on super expensive parchment left no place for errors.

What wonderful scripts. I don't know enough to see exactly when one script changes and a new script comes in. But even I can see the script changes between 1000-1100 and 1300.

Too bad I don't read Latin.

I normally stare at that stuff for over an hour....lots of documents considering Germany bombed flat.

 

Writing with feathers can be very exact...if one knows what one is doing.

 

I'm not elitist..just right handed with bad handwriting, but having a nib stubbed or made CI cost big $....

Lucky I can get an old used German pen with some flex for less than that.

I use my CI Lamy Persona often. Right now it's in the grab first Pelikan pen stand.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson