What Sort Of Sitb In This In My Nooders Mass 54?

[Chazzy91]

Got this bottle for a Christmas present last december. Tops, 1/3 of the bottle has been used. Just recently (about a month ago) started noticing this really thick, slow moving ink in the bottle's bottom when I turn in upright. There are no white moldy particles floating atop the ink, and the "sludge" mixes back into the ink when the bottle is shaken. However, in a mere hour, the SITB will reform if left unbothered. I really like this ink and its qualities, but it makes me anxious to think that this could happen in my pens. I have attempted diluting samples to some avail, hoping perhaps that additional water could "sop" up any distilled dye "particulates." I want to keep using my M54, but I am fearful. Guide me, oh FPN masters. What might be done to save this ink? Is this just a bad bottle, that I should request a replacement, or is this a common occurrence?

[Blade Runner]

Ask for a refund or replacement. Keep in case you're asked to return it.

[amberleadavis]

Where was it purchased? I think I would ask for a replacement.

[Ipsum_Dolor]

Fountain pen inks should rarely ever have a sediment. I agree with the two above, fill out an RMA.

[mhosea]

Actually, some sediment is perfectly normal with Noodler's bulletproof inks, something about how they work. You're supposed to shake them up. Having said that, it doesn't mean everything that is sediment is normal, just that the normal sediment is. Sound circular, but the picture isn't good enough to be certain. Maybe somebody can dig up a link to Sam Capote's thread on this.

[Thornton]

Actually, some sediment is perfectly normal with Noodler's bulletproof inks, something about how they work. You're supposed to shake them up. Having said that, it doesn't mean everything that is sediment is normal, just that the normal sediment is. Sound circular, but the picture isn't good enough to be certain. Maybe somebody can dig up a link to Sam Capote's thread on this.

That was my first thought. I have a bottle of El' Lawrence that accumulates quite a bit of sediment when not used for a while, but it's in no way damaged my pens. In fact, I'm on my third bottle and they've all behaved the same. I've never used 54th Massachusetts though, so I can't say for certain that the sediment is typical behavior.

[amberleadavis]

I would expect a certain amount of sediment, but that amount seems extreme.

[Chazzy91]

Thank you all for your advice. I apologize for the picture quality, but I am fairly certain I've not introduced any abnormal foreign particles or substances to the bottle. I am pretty sure this bottle came from the Goulets. Question: What is an "RMA?"

As far as this being a characteristic particular to Noodler's permanents/ultra saturated colors, I can believe that these sediments are common. In my sample vials of Noodlers inks of varying colors, I have noticed they cling to the vial sides more than my Diamines or Hebins. However, just because fallout is typical, does that make this and similar inks safe to use? I guess if it wasn't safe that everyone would be CAP LOCKS screaming at me to stay away Seriously, I love permanency, but not at the cost of performance or potential pen damage.

Perhaps it is important to note that any given ink stays in my pens for 7-12 days before I manage to use all of it. If my Noodlers defenders are running through a milliliter/day, I could imagine that they experience few problems with any kind of ink.

Thornton, what nib types do you use in this case? Like, mediums and up? I am more of a mediums and smaller kinda guy so excessive sediment could, I'd assume, pose a greater problem for smaller nibs...

 

If anyone knows about any other germane links, I have searched FPN to little avail. Maybe I am a bad searcher, though. Again, thanks for your time. I'll make sure to monitor for any further advice.

[amberleadavis]

So, it looks like sediment to you?

[Komitadjie]

"RMA" is a Return Material Authorization. Typically it's a simple form saying why you're returning something, and that it's been discussed and OKed with whomever you're returning it to. In a more general sense, it's just contacting the seller and arranging for a replacement.

[mhosea]

However, just because fallout is typical, does that make this and similar inks safe to use?

 

I like to operate on evidence rather than fear. If the fallout is typical, then I think a truly vast amount of field experience has shown that the inks are safe to use. This does not always mean that the flow is what one wants, just that if any misbehavior occurs, whether it be halting or excessive flow, either one, all that is required is to flush them out normally and use a different ink. IME, even if you let a Noodler's "bulletproof" ink dry out, it is no more difficult to clean out of a pen than any conventional ink. Some of them like to leave a film that wipes off or can be removed with a quick round in the ultrasonic cleaner. I dislike that behavior, personally, but I have never heard of it causing a problem, at least in conjunction with regular pen maintenance.

 

I think some fallout happens with every single bottle of Noodler's "bulletproof" to one extent or another. It is easiest to see when the color of the sediment contrasts with the color than the ink. For example, in Polar Blue the sediment has a pinkish hue.

 

There are some photos here

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/177246-normal-sediment-in-fountain-pen-ink-photos/?p=1798526

 

Look closest at the 1 ounce Noodler's bottles of La Reine Mauve and Hunter at the bottom of that post. IME, this is typical, but the color of the sediment versus the color of the ink does not always make it easy to see.

 

Having said all that, if the fallout is atypical, who can say? I would not hazard a guess based on the one picture you have shown. Perhaps let the ink stand undisturbed for a week or two, and then see if it looks like what is going on in Hunter and La Reine Mauve in the other post.

[inkstainedruth]

That was my first thought. I have a bottle of El' Lawrence that accumulates quite a bit of sediment when not used for a while, but it's in no way damaged my pens. In fact, I'm on my third bottle and they've all behaved the same. I've never used 54th Massachusetts though, so I can't say for certain that the sediment is typical behavior.

My bottle of El Lawrence has ink that does seem to separate -- the previous fill was relatively pale and watery. This time around I shook the bottle well, and the color was back to what I expected.

That being said, the photo of the upside down bottle of 54th MA is a bit disturbing. I would definitely see about getting a replacement, because I don't sediment should look, well, triangular....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Chazzy91]

So, it looks like sediment to you?

It does look like particulate sediment, but, as I mentioned, with a handful of shakes, it mixes right back into the solution.

 

 

"RMA" is a Return Material Authorization. Typically it's a simple form saying why you're returning something, and that it's been discussed and OKed with whomever you're returning it to. In a more general sense, it's just contacting the seller and arranging for a replacement.

Thanks for clarifying the RMA abbreviation!

 

 

I like to operate on evidence rather than fear. If the fallout is typical, then I think a truly vast amount of field experience has shown that the inks are safe to use. This does not always mean that the flow is what one wants, just that if any misbehavior occurs, whether it be halting or excessive flow, either one, all that is required is to flush them out normally and use a different ink. IME, even if you let a Noodler's "bulletproof" ink dry out, it is no more difficult to clean out of a pen than any conventional ink. Some of them like to leave a film that wipes off or can be removed with a quick round in the ultrasonic cleaner. I dislike that behavior, personally, but I have never heard of it causing a problem, at least in conjunction with regular pen maintenance.

 

I think some fallout happens with every single bottle of Noodler's "bulletproof" to one extent or another. It is easiest to see when the color of the sediment contrasts with the color than the ink. For example, in Polar Blue the sediment has a pinkish hue.

 

There are some photos here

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/177246-normal-sediment-in-fountain-pen-ink-photos/?p=1798526

 

Look closest at the 1 ounce Noodler's bottles of La Reine Mauve and Hunter at the bottom of that post. IME, this is typical, but the color of the sediment versus the color of the ink does not always make it easy to see.

 

Having said all that, if the fallout is atypical, who can say? I would not hazard a guess based on the one picture you have shown. Perhaps let the ink stand undisturbed for a week or two, and then see if it looks like what is going on in Hunter and La Reine Mauve in the other post.

Your inductive analysis is very sensible and convincing. I will continue to observe the ink to see if it gradually mirrors the ink in the pictures in your link. If I can find the time to post clearer photographs, then I'll be sure to do so.

 

 

 

 

In the collective overall opinion of this thread, it seems that this behavior is not uncommon to Noodlers, but that it is neither inherently detrimental. I'll look to make certain this behavior is strictly dye fallout, but, more probably, request a replacement. Is it common or acceptable to request a replacement when one has already used 1/3 of the bottle?

Edited July 9, 2014 by Chazzy91

[Chazzy91]

As suggested, I went on a week vacation and left the ink undisturbed. When I returned, the ink demonstrated the same behavior - not better, but no worse. I have a second picture below, taken after my return, of the bottle after it had been turned upside down and left for about a minute.

[WateryFlow]

^

Looks to me like the ink is ablaze

[SamCapote]

Chazzy, I responded to your PM. For others reading this thread, this was what I said to him/her.

 

Chazzy,

 

I would be uncomfortable seeing that in one of my bottles. One thing I might try first is adding 1-2 tsp of distilled water, shaking vigorously, then letting it sit to see if behavior resumes. If it did, I would contact Noodler's via Luxury Brands (email and also by phone), and share the same information with them. I would expect replacement if it persists. That looks significant enough to make blockage likely. It's not clearly looking like an infection (fungus/bacterial) though.

 

 

[mhosea]

I agree with Sam. Usually one can make out the normal sediment in a Noodler's cellulose-reactive ink when looking through the bottle after it has settled, but if you tip the bottle in this manner, with the naked eye it just appears as a more viscous, more saturated part that flows down the sides. Under magnification, one can make out individual particles, but with the naked eye, not so much. Here, however, we see relatively large particles with the naked eye. This is not normal, I think.

[SeeksAdvice]

My 54th Mass had a layer of "black" material at the bottom. It did eventually go into solution. That looks like what happened to my Polar Blue and BSB after they froze solid. But, I don't think that's what's going on here. I'd be a bit nervous too. On the plus side, it's only a bottle of Noodler's ...

[Chazzy91]

Thank you everyone for your insight and suggestions. SamCapote, I am really glad you included your response to the pm for any other interested readers. I'll attempt the dilution, but I suspect I'll be requesting a replacement. I am so thankful for this community's willingness to advise and help. You guys are amazing.

[SamCapote]

Chazzy, how did this all turn out?