Omas "the Paragon" Problems And Service

[jar]

Sorry, I do not agree, Jar

 

It does not matter how experienced you are. A product should be stored safely. You should be able to trust the product is stored properly. If the box is not safe for storage there should be a warning, or the pen should be put in a cellophane wrapper (if that is safe after many years).

It should not make a difference if I am a newbie getting a present of an expensive pen and storing it in my safe, only to find out the pen is gone after many years, or if I am experienced. I remember a member here wanting to buy an expensive pen for his son to be presented on graduation. Imagine the "joy" of the son getting this pen. Should that member prove he is inexperienced? How does he prove that?

 

This is the factory's responsibility. Only way to get out is to put a disclaimer on the box: to the buyer: presentation box only. DO NOT STORE IN BOX.

 

I do not know the law in the USA, but here in Europe a company can't hide behind a warranty period. If they made a real mistake in production it remains their responsibility, even after many years. (Unless the product is generally known to deteriorate, like foodstuff)

 

 

D.ick

 

 

I understand that you feel that way. I feel differently. I see no responsibility on OMAS part or any attempt to hide behind anything.

 

The warranty is for a specified period. If the pen was past the warranty period OMAS should be has no responsibility to do anything.

 

I agree that it would be good public relations for OMAS to go beyond what they have to do and as I have said, it may simply be a matter of how the OP couched the subject. But I don't see where OMAS in any way damaged his pen.

[offbase]

That is an obvious manufacturing defect; they sell the pen in a box which chemically reacts with the pen body. It's THEIR pen, it's THEIR box, and THEY sold it that way. There are TONS of collectors who store their pens in the original packaging; try to find a MB LE collector who doesn't. It is entirely Omas' fault, and hiding behind the warranty period is bs. It would be one thing if the plating was worn off the clip or the nib, or the feed cracked, etc. That photo says it all. And BTW, Omas isn't alone. The white leatherette lining in DuPont boxes often turn a dirty, nicotine color and, while not reacting with the metal pens, DO react with the accessories, velvet pouches, documentation, etc. that it comes into contact with.over time.

 

If you can't store an item -- especially a collectible -- in its original box, then there should be a warning. To put it another way, Jar, a question to you: Is it UNREASONABLE for the purchaser of an expensive pen sold in a fancy presentation box to store that pen in the box, there being no warning against it? If not, it IS unreasonable for Omas not to make good on it.

[jar]

 

 

To put it another way, Jar, a question to you: Is it UNREASONABLE for the purchaser of an expensive pen sold in a fancy presentation box to store that pen in the box, there being no warning against it?

 

Yes, I think it is unreasonable. We are supposed to be adults and to take responsibilities for our actions.

 

[freakman]

I think this issue would only happen when the pen has been stored in the box for more than 10 years without moving and in a relatively or sometimes humid environment.

Most of the pen manufacturers can't foresee this problem and that's the reason why OMAS changed the pakaging material around 2000s. It's exactly about 10 years after they first used these materials back in the late 80s.

[Namo]

 

OMG the damage is from NOT using the pen and involved only Omas products... This is the kind of story who could convince me not to buy a Omas product.

[RMN]

 

Yes, I think it is unreasonable. We are supposed to be adults and to take responsibilities for our actions.

 

Would you say, that if a car has a warranty for 2 years, and after 4 years there appears to be a manufacturing defect in the airbag system, as the result of which it did not deploy and the driver died as a result, it was that drivers own stupid mistake?

 

 

D.ick

[pen2paper]

A person working with plastics, designing, planning, selection, is critically aware of it's need to offgas, and ability to deteriorate and affect other materials, (see the early corrosion on the pen metal in the photos above) when confined with other materials. They know the possibilities.

 

This packaging was a poor choice by the manufacturer. Confined mixed materials can easily being to show signs of degradation within 6 months. The damage this collector found may have been found after the warranty, but in fact was set up to fail from the Day the manufacturer placed this plastic/metal object in this packaging. The original packaging is generally known to add to the value of a collectible pen. If the manufacturer Chose incorrect packaging > their choice, it should have come with a storage warning. If this was a manufacturer selection error they ought to acknowledge this. And in both cases the manufacturer should care to seek positive resolution.

[offbase]

Yes, I think it is unreasonable. We are supposed to be adults and to take responsibilities for our actions.

 

Wow. You're entitled to your opinion, of course, but ... wow.

[jar]

Would you say, that if a car has a warranty for 2 years, and after 4 years there appears to be a manufacturing defect in the airbag system, as the result of which it did not deploy and the driver died as a result, it was that drivers own stupid mistake?

 

 

D.ick

 

The two examples are not comparable and I have not said the pen incident was a stupid mistake. I have said it is unfortunate.

 

The damage to the pen does not involve personal injury, much less death.

 

If the car manufacturer knew about the air bag defect and knowing sold the car then they might be considered liable. If they did not know about the manufacturing defect then I do not see how the car manufacturer could be considered responsible.

[offbase]

 

The two examples are not comparable and I have not said the pen incident was a stupid mistake. I have said it is unfortunate.

 

The damage to the pen does not involve personal injury, much less death.

 

If the car manufacturer knew about the air bag defect and knowing sold the car then they might be considered liable. If they did not know about the manufacturing defect then I do not see how the car manufacturer could be considered responsible.

The legal standard here is not actual knowledge, but constructive, meaning that they "reasonably SHOULD have known." As they primarily manufacture plastics, and the materials at issue are plastics ...

[jar]

The legal standard here is not actual knowledge, but constructive, meaning that they "reasonably SHOULD have known." As they primarily manufacture plastics, and the materials at issue are plastics ...

But so far there is no indication that OMAS should reasonably known of the problem.

[de_pen_dent]

But so far there is no indication that OMAS should reasonably known of the problem.

 

I am not sure whether you are just playing devil's advocate or whether you really not think it is reasonable for a long-standing manufacturer of pens - a task which involves working extensively with various forms of plastics and resins - to be aware that a particular resin can get damaged when coming in contact with some typical pen storage fabrics?

 

If that is true, then Omas has achieved a level of ignorance of their own products that would be mindboggling in any other industry.

 

Incidentally, a few hours after reading this thread, I realized that my Visconti Michelangelo has also been damaged the same way, from being kept in storage in a pen box with a felt/velvet lining. One would think there'd be a warning about proper storage for pens which are so sensitive to fabrics!

Edited June 26, 2014 by de_pen_dent

[jar]

 

I am not sure whether you are just playing devil's advocate or whether you really not think it is reasonable for a long-standing manufacturer of pens - a task which involves working extensively with various forms of plastics and resins - to be aware that a particular resin can get damaged when coming in contact with some typical pen storage fabrics?

 

If that is true, then Omas has achieved a level of ignorance of their own products that would be mindboggling in any other industry.

 

Incidentally, a few hours after reading this thread, I realized that my Visconti Michelangelo has also been damaged the same way, from being kept in storage in a pen box with a felt/velvet lining. One would think there'd be a warning about proper storage for pens which are so sensitive to fabrics!

 

 

Too funny.

 

No, I am not playing devils advocate.

[RMN]

 

The two examples are not comparable and I have not said the pen incident was a stupid mistake. I have said it is unfortunate.

 

The damage to the pen does not involve personal injury, much less death.

 

If the car manufacturer knew about the air bag defect and knowing sold the car then they might be considered liable. If they did not know about the manufacturing defect then I do not see how the car manufacturer could be considered responsible.

There is such a thing as product liability. Even if you did not know as a manufacturer, you are liable for the product which goes long beyond Waranty times. There have been many lawsuits, and I think the OP would have a good chance should he care to take OMAS to court.

 

In my case of the airbag, the manufacturer would not be guilty of manslaughter, but would have financial liability if it happened because of a production fault and should recall cars to replace the faulty airbags. (as happens quite often in the actual car-world)

 

D.ick

[haldane3]

All fair enough. Sounds like Omas should just shutter their doors and stop making pens because this one had an issue.

Edited June 26, 2014 by haldane3

[Ghost Plane]

Okay, zone it back people. I'm too busy for moderator duty today.

<removes moderator's hat>

 

My guess is the company thinks people are going to take the pens out & use them. Novel concept, I know.

[jar]

There is such a thing as product liability. Even if you did not know as a manufacturer, you are liable for the product which goes long beyond Waranty times. There have been many lawsuits, and I think the OP would have a good chance should he care to take OMAS to court.

 

In my case of the airbag, the manufacturer would not be guilty of manslaughter, but would have financial liability if it happened because of a production fault and should recall cars to replace the faulty airbags. (as happens quite often in the actual car-world)

 

D.ick

 

Of course there is such a thing as product liability. And in the case in the OP I do not see any signs that could lead to product liability.

[pen2paper]

GP snip > My guess is the company thinks people are going to take the pens out & use them. Novel concept, I know. <

 

well yeah, that too. :- )

 

BTW, I do (think) I get jar's point, I'd just L i k e Omas/Kenro's business formula to include resolution of such issues.

 

edited to insert, at heart this community likes to see a pen related company be successful.

If you look way back in my old comments, Paragon is a fine pen in my eyes. Gut reaction to seeing unnecessary damage, that I'm hyper aware is possible.

 

The photo serves as a valuable lesson - open them up, use them, and/or store safely elsewhere.

 

Too much thought on this subject today..Back to my, it's just stuff mode.

Edited June 27, 2014 by pen2paper

[Keyless Works]

If you parked a car in a garage for a couple of years all of the tires would need to be replaced because of flat spots and the fluids would all need to be changed out.... I know a pen isn't car but it still seems like a shame to leave it in its box for a few years. I don't think I would leave a nice watch stationary for a long time either.

 

I think this would be more surprising if it were another pen company like Pilot or even Montblanc.

[de_pen_dent]

 

Too funny.

 

No, I am not playing devils advocate.

 

So you are stating that there is no reason to believe Omas knew that storing a pen they make in a certain way could damage it, but we, are consumers should know it in advance?

 

Ok then. I dont think there is any point continuing this discussion any further.

 

Re usage and parking the car - a more apt analogy would be: if you parked your car in the garage for 6 months (ie, in the same place where one would normally park a car for a shorter period of time) and found out after 6 months that the body was chipped/damaged, would that be acceptable?

Edited June 27, 2014 by de_pen_dent