Secrets To Using Stub And Italic Nibs?

[amberleadavis]

Do you want to borrow a stub? I have an inexpensive Sheaffer that LahLahLaw just did a custom stub on, it's a wet writer and easy to use.

[Huskysibe]

Take a look at this diagram, made to answer a different question, but, I think it may help you.

 

 

David

Wow, Thank you David, I have been having an issue as well and this clears it up for me. Appreciate it!

 

Billy

[dms525]

Thank you--this is the precise illustration I was looking for. That is the angle I use when writing with cursive italics...and have used for years though it was recently suggested to me by Someone Who Knows More About Pens than I do, that I should use a different angle vis a vis the writing line.

 

Wow, Thank you David, I have been having an issue as well and this clears it up for me. Appreciate it!

 

Billy

 

You are both very welcome! I'm happy you found my diagram helpful.

 

Happy writing!

 

David

[Lou Erickson]

 

 

You are both very welcome! I'm happy you found my diagram helpful.

 

Happy writing!

 

David

 

It is a very clear diagram. The only problem I have with it is that when I put my italic at that angle, I get no ink at all. The slit must not be hitting the page; I'll have to look more closely at what I'm doing.

[dms525]

 

It is a very clear diagram. The only problem I have with it is that when I put my italic at that angle, I get no ink at all. The slit must not be hitting the page; I'll have to look more closely at what I'm doing.

 

Hi, Lou.

 

I'd bet you are tilting the pen in a way that both tines are not in contact with the paper. Are you accustomed to using oblique nibs? That is what they are designed to compensate for, AFAIK.

 

David

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

I very much agree with the prior Replies. FPN is host to knowledgeable and experienced enablers of the best sort!

 

I had a bit of a transitional period going from [bulbous] factory Stubs to hand-ground Stubs & Cursive italics, and rather like Zeno's Arrow Paradox, I'm uncertain if I'll ever arrive at the 'calligrapher' destination, but here's my wee suggestions:

 

If you do choose to keep the pen with the Stub nib, and commit to practicing how to get the best from it, I suggest using a high shading ink, such as Noodler's Apache Sunset, which will reveal how the nib travels / orientation to the page.

 

Also, use of a slightly toothy paper will increase feedback, so you may develop a feel for how the nib is running, hence more readily keep it on its sweet spot.

 

I certainly agree about 'productivity', so I continue to churn out grist for the mill with firm mono-line nibs, and use pens with other nibs for more leisurely personal writing.

 

Bye,

S1

[Mickey]

 

Hi, Lou.

 

I'd bet you are tilting the pen in a way that both tines are not in contact with the paper. Are you accustomed to using oblique nibs? That is what they are designed to compensate for, AFAIK.

 

David

 

Nope. Oblique nibs are designed to reorient the edge, such that one might (for example) write uncials or Roman caps without adjusting pen barrel / writing line orientation (right oblique) or to write an upright cursive italic with thin joins. (The latter is why I use an L-oblique for correspondence and note taking.) Not being able to get the edge on the page is simply bad technique. Put the edge on the page and write. Don't stare at the nib.

 

Put another way, obliques adjust for letter form and for paper and arm positioning, not grip anomalies.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Mickey

[Lou Erickson]

 

I'd bet you are tilting the pen in a way that both tines are not in contact with the paper. Are you accustomed to using oblique nibs? That is what they are designed to compensate for, AFAIK.

 

 

Probably it is something like that. I'm going to keep trying - it's a Binder nib, so I don't expect it has any trouble - and be more careful.

[Blade Runner]

I had Mike Masuyama stub a broad nib, and I had problems maintaining the "sweet spot" and the edges were so sharp, they dug into the paper creating a very unpleasant scratching sensation. On the same order he also ground a medium to an extra fine that was scratchy on some motions. I lost confidence in sending them back to Mike Masuyama, so I sent both to John Mottishaw (nibs.com), and now they are both a pleasure to use and require no special effort. Just pick them up and start writing.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Blade Runner

[them700project]

Im new to ground nibs but I got a pendleton BLS medium and filled it with Pelikan Amber. I hated it, It was beyond scratchy and the ink as a side note was barely visible on the paper. I was frustrated. so i drained it cleaned it and let it dry out. And put some Kon-Peki in there and I am having a good time now.

[dms525]

I had Mike Masuyama stub a broad nib, and I had problems maintaining the "sweet spot" and the edges were so sharp, they dug into the paper creating a very unpleasant scratching sensation. On the same order he also ground a medium to an extra fine that was scratchy on some motions. I lost confidence in sending them back to Mike Masuyama, so I sent both to John Mottishaw (nibs.com), and now they are both a pleasure to use and require no special effort. Just pick them up and start writing.

 

Not to dispute your experience, but, in defense of Michael: Over the past three years, I would estimate Michael has customized around two dozen nibs for me. The first few were inconsistent, but there has been a consistent improvement since then. Have Michael's skills improved? Well, maybe they have, but I think the principal cause of the improvement is that he has gotten to know my preferences better from feedback. The biggest improvement occurred after he worked on some nibs with me sitting across his work table from him at the San Francisco Pen Show 2 years ago. He remarked that being able to watch me write was of enormous help to him in shaping my nibs to meet my needs. Like any consultant - and that's the way I see Masuyama, Mottishaw, Binder and the rest - their work is governed by a cybernetic process. They improve with feedback.

 

John Mottishaw has customized several nibs for me. Some are purely magical. Some are less perfect. Same with Richard Binder. I think that's the reality of the work they do.

 

I would also point out that, besides the shaping of the nib, the ink and paper you use is going to impact the writing experience. Usually, you need to find the most perfect nib/ink/paper combination for each nib by trial and error, unless you can specify precisely every pertinent variable to the nibmeister.

 

So, for example, I just sent 3 nibs off to Michael Masuyama along with writing samples showing how I wanted them to write and a blank sheet of the paper I use for him to use in testing the nibs. I will still need to find the perfect ink for each, when they come back to me.

 

David

[dms525]

Im new to ground nibs but I got a pendleton BLS medium and filled it with Pelikan Amber. I hated it, It was beyond scratchy and the ink as a side note was barely visible on the paper. I was frustrated. so i drained it cleaned it and let it dry out. And put some Kon-Peki in there and I am having a good time now.

 

This sort of experience is routine with me. I keep an Everynote note with a table documenting my experience with each pen/ink combination I try. So, for example, I have a 3 month old note that one of my OMAS 360's wrote too wet with Irosh Shin-kai. This morning, I loaded it with Noodler's Van Gogh Starry Sky, a drier ink, and it writes like a dream with much better line differentiation.

 

David

[Blade Runner]

 

Not to dispute your experience, but, in defense of Michael: Over the past three years, I would estimate Michael has customized around two dozen nibs for me. The first few were inconsistent, but there has been a consistent improvement since then. Have Michael's skills improved? Well, maybe they have, but I think the principal cause of the improvement is that he has gotten to know my preferences better from feedback. The biggest improvement occurred after he worked on some nibs with me sitting across his work table from him at the San Francisco Pen Show 2 years ago. He remarked that being able to watch me write was of enormous help to him in shaping my nibs to meet my needs. Like any consultant - and that's the way I see Masuyama, Mottishaw, Binder and the rest - their work is governed by a cybernetic process. They improve with feedback.

 

John Mottishaw has customized several nibs for me. Some are purely magical. Some are less perfect. Same with Richard Binder. I think that's the reality of the work they do.

 

I would also point out that, besides the shaping of the nib, the ink and paper you use is going to impact the writing experience. Usually, you need to find the most perfect nib/ink/paper combination for each nib by trial and error, unless you can specify precisely every pertinent variable to the nibmeister.

 

So, for example, I just sent 3 nibs off to Michael Masuyama along with writing samples showing how I wanted them to write and a blank sheet of the paper I use for him to use in testing the nibs. I will still need to find the perfect ink for each, when they come back to me.

 

David

Hi David,

 

It's nice of you to give the benefit of doubt, but in my case I did provide written samples, a description of what I desired, and samples of the stationery I use, and the work was really unacceptable by a large margin. I never experienced such a miss with Richard Binder and now John Mottishaw. Like any endeavor requiring precision, some individuals are simply better or more consistent at what they do.

 

 

Edit to add: I never sat with either R. Binder or J. Mottishaw. The transactions were all done through the mail with the same kind of input that I sent M. Masuyama, but they got it right the first time round.

Edited October 23, 2014 by Blade Runner

[Mickey]

I had Mike Masuyama stub a broad nib, and I had problems maintaining the "sweet spot" and the edges were so sharp, they dug into the paper creating a very unpleasant scratching sensation. On the same order he also ground a medium to an extra fine that was scratchy on some motions. I lost confidence in sending them back to Mike Masuyama, so I sent both to John Mottishaw (nibs.com), and now they are both a pleasure to use and require no special effort. Just pick them up and start writing.

 

I have direct no knowledge of Mike's work, but some nibgrinders have the odd notion that crisp nibs need to have sharp corners. They don't. If used with a light hand, a nib with well rounded corners will write no wider than the straight segment of the edge and the tidiness of the figures are limited only by the skill of the penman. Sharper cornered than stub is perhaps warranted for a crisp italic, but mostly what is needed is a fine, straight edge.

[Runnin_Ute]

I certainly agree about 'productivity', so I continue to churn out grist for the mill with firm mono-line nibs, and use pens with other nibs for more leisurely personal writing.

 

Bye,

S1

 

I like my 1.1 and Broad nibs, but for much of the stuff I do at the office for work, they just aren't very practical. However, I will often use them there when doing personal writing, such as responding to a pen pal's letter or just doodling. But for much of what I do that is work related my fine, extra fine and mediums nibs fit the bill better. Same with some of the inks I use. (although for some things when I want a contrasting color (brighter) I will use a red, or Apache Sunset or Levenger Pomegranate or Diamine Steel Blue - something with a big contrast to some of the darker colors I use normally.

[Koyote]

Out of all of these posts, only one or two even suggests that the problem may be with the nib rather than the user. Amazing. Stubs are just not that hard to use - a good one should not require much more care or precision than any regular nib. Shoot, even a cheapie Lamy 1.1 stub is easy to use.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Koyote

[tinysnail]

I found that there were two angles I needed to watch out for when using stubs and italics:

 

1. The angle between the nib and the writing line (awesome illustration, David!)
2. The angle between the pen and the paper

The second point is something I was doing incorrectly for way too long. I'm still pretty new to fountain pens so have been slowly training myself to write with proper technique. I was still holding my pen at a too-high angle and getting frustrating results from my Binder 0.7 cursive italic. As soon as I dropped the pen to a lower angle, it was like magic!

 

http://33.media.tumblr.com/9b824944dba403d004f78721dabb7dde/tumblr_ndxhsaG05r1qgziczo1_1280.jpg

 

Anyways, I am literally the Most Novice when it comes to writing with stubs, but I thought I would share my own experiences with adjusting the way I write to really bring out the best of these nibs.

[chas0039]

I grind my own and have redone some from expert grinders.

 

I find that, as noted above, the angle of pen to paper is a big factor. Just a slight difference on a nib that is perfect can result in a scratchy, sharp writer. If I grind away the sharp edges to make it smoother at the new angle, I lose the italic line variation. My grinds are perfect for me. If others use my pens, they might be a mess. When I have had to re-do other's work, it was because of exactly this problem. Makes life interesting.

 

For this issue here, have you looked closly at the tine spacing and alignment? My italics need a good flow.

Edited October 24, 2014 by chas0039

[Blade Runner]

Out of all of these posts, only one or two even suggests that the problem may be with the nib rather than the user. Amazing. Stubs are just not that hard to use - a good one should not require much more care or precision than any regular nib. Shoot, even a cheapie Lamy 1.1 stub is easy to use.

 

Exactly. There should be no thinking about it or getting a precise angle or rotation. With a proper stub you should be able to just pick it up and use it, and it should be smooth and provide line variation.