Mould In Ink And Pen

[Historian]

So, I loaded up my fountain pen with Herbin's Lierre Sauvage. Everything was ok, until I opened the bottle today (2 days after I first opened it and loaded up the pen) and there was mould floating on top of the ink. Panic ensued, I got all the remaining ink out of my Lamy Safari and the converter. Rinsed both of them repeatedly, first with lukewarm water and when everything was clean I added a bit of washing up liquid to a glass of water, rinsed and shook the converter about a bit to get all the stuff out. Then rinsed with clean water again a number of times.

 

My question is: was this enough? I couldn't see any mould inside the converter, so hoping that this is all ok now.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Historian

[The Blue Knight]

I suspect I have a mouldy bottle of Herbins Bleu Nut, But the thing is to be honest I still use the ink regularly simply because I don't care enough about the pens to worry. I mean whats the worst that going to to happen? What probably I will do is buy some house hold ammonia and give my pens a proper clean over the summer.

 

I mean for a safari I wouldn't care too much I mean it's only a £15 pen. Saying that I don't use this doggy bottle with my one properly expensive pen.

[Sallent]

I would not waste the ink. Remove the mold, and keep using. Rinse the pen each time after you run dry. At least that's what I'd do. I don't know if anyone else agrees.

[The Blue Knight]

  On 4/29/2014 at 3:19 PM, Sallent said:

I would not waste the ink. Remove the mold, and keep using. Rinse the pen each time after you run dry. At least that's what I'd do. I don't know if anyone else agrees.

 

 

That's what I did.

[Historian]

Thanks for the replies. I would like to keep the Safari, as it has sentimental value. I also contacted the shop I bought the ink from and they offered a full refund, plus another bottle of ink of my choice (asked for Diamine) free of charge.

 

I tried removing the mould, but the bottle is so tiny that it's almost impossible, it's a pretty huge patch. I was thinking about transferring the ink into another bottle with a bigger opening, and then try and remove the stuff.

[The Blue Knight]

  On 4/29/2014 at 4:08 PM, Historian said:

Thanks for the replies. I would like to keep the Safari, as it has sentimental value. I also contacted the shop I bought the ink from and they offered a full refund, plus another bottle of ink of my choice (asked for Diamine) free of charge.

 

I tried removing the mould, but the bottle is so tiny that it's almost impossible, it's a pretty huge patch. I was thinking about transferring the ink into another bottle with a bigger opening, and then try and remove the stuff.

 

 

Glad to here you had a good out come with the seller! I would keep the ink but perhaps you could use with a dip pen or something. My wasn't that I only had small insoluble bits in mine. Don't give up on J.Herbin inks even though they do have a small chance of going off they are they are the nicest inks I've ever used and are really nicely presented in there small bottles with little pictures and pen rests.

[pokermon]

A lot of pen professionals warn against using moldy ink. The mold can grow inside the pen compartments and clog things up. Getting rid of mold spores is a very hard thing to do.

[WirsPlm]

The problem with mold is that it can start growing inside the pen and it only takes a very little bit before there's enough to cause problems with ink flow and pen plastics (or allergies and reactions from the person using the pen), I've seen people recommend diluted ammonia cleaners to clear out the pen and phenol (carbolic acid, used for arts preservation) is a great resource for clearing nasties out of ink, here's a link to a discussion of using phenol to clear up ink ( https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/171278-biocide-shootout-tests/page-2?do=findComment&comment=2105446 ) and here's the store that I got mine from ( http://www.naturalpigments.com/phenol.html ).

[KBeezie]

If I found signs of mold in a pen or converter etc. I would give the whole thing a diluted vinegar or ammonia bath after cleaning, then give it a good rinsing afterwards. (whole thing meaning, converter + Feed + Section + Nib). The mold can live in some of the hard to reach places or unseen areas so usually a good idea to give it a good soak after the usual cleaning. (and probably not a bad thing to do every few months or bi-annually). (some inks like Caran d'Ache are actually acidic to prevent mold growth, while others like Noodler's do have some pH-neutral inks to protect materials, but doesn't always prohibit mold growth).

Edited April 30, 2014 by KBeezie

[WirsPlm]

  On 4/30/2014 at 2:00 AM, KBeezie said:

If I found signs of mold in a pen or converter etc. I would give the whole thing a diluted vinegar or ammonia bath after cleaning, then give it a good rinsing afterwards. (whole thing meaning, converter + Feed + Section + Nib). The mold can live in some of the hard to reach places or unseen areas so usually a good idea to give it a good soak after the usual cleaning. (and probably not a bad thing to do every few months or bi-annually). (some inks like Caran d'Ache are actually acidic to prevent mold growth, while others like Noodler's do have some pH-neutral inks to protect materials, but doesn't always prohibit mold growth).

 

Actually, pH and acidity has very little to do with mold inhibition, also I've never seen mold in Noodler's ink (and the effective biocides aren't prohibited in the US like the EU environmental committee has apparently done), are you sure you aren't thinking of J. Herbin which did have a mold issue?

[KBeezie]

  On 4/30/2014 at 2:05 AM, WirsPlm said:

 

Actually, pH and acidity has very little to do with mold inhibition, also I've never seen mold in Noodler's ink (and the effective biocides aren't prohibited in the US like the EU environmental committee has apparently done), are you sure you aren't thinking of J. Herbin which did have a mold issue?

 

Caran d'Ache's words, not mine.

 

Quote from their convo with me regarding my bottle with the corroded cap.

 

  Quote

Dear Karl, As all fountain pen inks, the Caran d'Ache ink has no neutral PH. In the case of Chromatics "Electric orange" the ink is alkaline (PH > 7). This high PH protects the ink from the contaminations and prevents the mold. This chemical property alters certain metals. In your case the metal of the lid is not correctly protected by the outer layer and it has deteriorated.

 

Edited April 30, 2014 by KBeezie

[Historian]

Thanks again for the replies. Yes, my biggest fear is that mould will start growing within the pen/converter. I think I will pop down to the shops and get some vinegar. I usually use vinegar to clean the gunk in the inside of my kettle, so should get some anyhow.

 

@top pen: definitely not giving up on Herbin. I love the colour of Lierre Sauvage, so definitely buying new bottle at some point. I also still have a bottle of Terre de Feu. (Though that has some weird white powdery thing at the bottom of the bottle, but I don't think that's mould.)

[WirsPlm]

  On 4/30/2014 at 2:06 AM, KBeezie said:

 

Caran d'Ache's words, not mine.

 

Quote from their convo with me regarding my bottle with the corroded cap.

 

 

They're claiming that a high pH protects from contamination (which is loltastic, if an ink gets contaminated it gets contaminated, pH doesn't for prevent spores from floating in) and that the basic nature of their inks prevents mold growth, which isn't really true or logical, many molds don't like extreme conditions (except for extreme wetness) but that's not going to prevent the right mold from growing, for prevention you need biocides. If Caran d'Ache is trying to skimp on biocides by claiming that their inks are too basic to grow mold (and higher than 7 pH isn't basic enough to do much of anything, between 6 and 8 is usually considered pH neutral from what I've seen) I'm definitely going to stay away from them, that's an outbreak waiting to happen and a very silly claim. Perhaps they mean that they are using biocides which are basic in nature instead of acidic (something other than carbolic acid, for example) which would make more sense, but that's not quite what that quote says.

Edited April 30, 2014 by WirsPlm

[WirsPlm]

  On 4/30/2014 at 3:44 PM, Historian said:

Thanks again for the replies. Yes, my biggest fear is that mould will start growing within the pen/converter. I think I will pop down to the shops and get some vinegar. I usually use vinegar to clean the gunk in the inside of my kettle, so should get some anyhow.

 

@top pen: definitely not giving up on Herbin. I love the colour of Lierre Sauvage, so definitely buying new bottle at some point. I also still have a bottle of Terre de Feu. (Though that has some weird white powdery thing at the bottom of the bottle, but I don't think that's mould.)

 

Be careful with that vinegar, not all plastics react well to all cleaning chemicals, before buying anything make sure to look up recipes for mold killing cleaning fluid (the recipes I've seen usually involve ammonia).

[KBeezie]

  On 4/30/2014 at 10:36 PM, WirsPlm said:

 

They're claiming that a high pH protects from contamination (which is loltastic, if an ink gets contaminated it gets contaminated, pH doesn't for prevent spores from floating in) and that the basic nature of their inks prevents mold growth, which isn't really true or logical, many molds don't like extreme conditions (except for extreme wetness) but that's not going to prevent the right mold from growing, for prevention you need biocides. If Caran d'Ache is trying to skimp on biocides by claiming that their inks are too basic to grow mold (and higher than 7 pH isn't basic enough to do much of anything, between 6 and 8 is usually considered pH neutral from what I've seen) I'm definitely going to stay away from them, that's an outbreak waiting to happen and a very silly claim. Perhaps they mean that they are using biocides which are basic in nature instead of acidic (something other than carbolic acid, for example) which would make more sense, but that's not quite what that quote says.

 

Here's the thread related to that if you want to read their full response to me.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/265171-info-caran-dache-no-neutral-ph-response-to-corroded-cap/

[WirsPlm]

  On 4/30/2014 at 11:22 PM, KBeezie said:

 

Here's the thread related to that if you want to read their full response to me.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/265171-info-caran-dache-no-neutral-ph-response-to-corroded-cap/

 

That really doesn't add anything to what you already quoted, they're basically making odd and not entirely logical claims about their ink properties, it certainly doesn't tempt me to spend the $$$ on their inks if they're going to claim that pH prevents mold growth (makes me wonder if they're leaving out the biocides or what, especially when Sailor and Pilot can make great inks that are definitely basic and still have noticeable biocide in them).

[KBeezie]

  On 5/1/2014 at 12:01 AM, WirsPlm said:

 

That really doesn't add anything to what you already quoted, they're basically making odd and not entirely logical claims about their ink properties, it certainly doesn't tempt me to spend the $$$ on their inks if they're going to claim that pH prevents mold growth (makes me wonder if they're leaving out the biocides or what, especially when Sailor and Pilot can make great inks that are definitely basic and still have noticeable biocide in them).

 

They also make the came that ALL fountain pen inks are not pH Neutral (... noodler's?), but basically their own bottles aren't really suitable to hold their own inks. I mainly linked it to show what transpired that response.

[Sazerac]

  On 4/29/2014 at 2:03 PM, Historian said:

So, I loaded up my fountain pen with Herbin's Lierre Sauvage. Everything was ok, until I opened the bottle today (2 days after I first opened it and loaded up the pen) and there was mould floating on top of the ink. Panic ensued, I got all the remaining ink out of my Lamy Safari and the converter. Rinsed both of them repeatedly, first with lukewarm water and when everything was clean I added a bit of washing up liquid to a glass of water, rinsed and shook the converter about a bit to get all the stuff out. Then rinsed with clean water again a number of times.

 

My question is: was this enough? I couldn't see any mould inside the converter, so hoping that this is all ok now.

Sorry to jump backwards, but you might try writing the Herbin distributor in your county. You can probably email them. About a year ago, I had a bottle of Herbin with mold floating on the top, so I wrote them. They told me that for inexpilcable reasons several batches of ink had gotten moldy. Something occurred at the factory. They instructed me to throw out the ink, and they sent me two large bottles of the same ink. They also threw in a few Rhodia notebooks for good measure. At least in the US, the distrbutor's response to the mold more than satisfatory. You might give that a try. It is better than using moldy ink.

[Historian]

  On 4/30/2014 at 10:37 PM, WirsPlm said:

 

Be careful with that vinegar, not all plastics react well to all cleaning chemicals, before buying anything make sure to look up recipes for mold killing cleaning fluid (the recipes I've seen usually involve ammonia).

 

Thanks! Will do!

[Historian]

  On 5/1/2014 at 3:44 AM, Sazerac said:

Sorry to jump backwards, but you might try writing the Herbin distributor in your county. You can probably email them. About a year ago, I had a bottle of Herbin with mold floating on the top, so I wrote them. They told me that for inexpilcable reasons several batches of ink had gotten moldy. Something occurred at the factory. They instructed me to throw out the ink, and they sent me two large bottles of the same ink. They also threw in a few Rhodia notebooks for good measure. At least in the US, the distrbutor's response to the mold more than satisfatory. You might give that a try. It is better than using moldy ink.

 

Hi,

 

I got in touch with the distributor here, they refunded me the full amount and also sent me an ink of my choice (Diamine Blue Black). I got the package yesterday, they also gave me a bottle of Diamine Twilight.