Is This A Thick Model Valiant?

[Drone]

Hello,

 

In early April 2013 I purchased this pen here on FPN from Member Z500. The pen was restored and was exactly as described is the sale post. I was very happy with the sale. Thanks Z500.

 

It was claimed the pen was a Valiant Thick Model with a conical Lifetime 14K two-tone M nib. The striated brown pen is standard sized (I think it is anyway, 5-1/8" capped, 5-7/8" posted):and is a vacuum filler (thin stiff plunger wire). The the clip is 1-3/8" long and the cap band is a little under 5/8" wide.The pen is not personalized. The M nib is a wonderfully smooth writer - the pen stays in my regular rotation.

 

The strong imprint says:

 

W.A. SHEAFFER PEN CO.

FORT MADISON, IOWA, U.S.A.

- MADE IN U.S.A. -

 

Lately, I began to wonder about this pen. It certainly fits into the Valiant category, but I've never seen a thick Valiant with a wide autograph band on it like this before. Then again, I am not a Sheaffer's expert by any means.

Perhaps a true Sheaffer's Expert can verify the model & size, and perhaps narrow-down the manufacture date (1939-45?)

 

Is it strictly correct to call this nib a "Triumph" nib? What about conical nibs like this but on Thin Model or "TM" pens; is it correct to call them "Triumph" nibs too?

The picture below is from the original for-sale post.

 

Thank You, David

 

Edited April 27, 2014 by Drone

[Ernst Bitterman]

I don't like to get definitive, but I think that in Sheaffers, this pattern of point can be called Triumph with freedom.

 

That is indeed a Valiant, and I think with a wide band like that one can pin it down fairly closely to 1945; before that, it was REALLY wide bands on Triumphs (the pen, not the point), and after the band scaled down slightly and there was only a single incision top and bottom.

[Scribblesoften]

I am sure that members more expert than I will chime in, but when I think of a model described as, "thick," I think of the first year Touchdown pen. It was thick in comparison to the pens that followed it. I don't know that I have seen a wire/vacuum filler described as,"thick," before.

 

Edited to add: The thick model Touchdown was only produced in 1948, if memory serves.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Scribblesoften

[79spitfire]

It's not a 'Touchdown' in the sense that the touchdown pens have a different filling system. Yours is a Vac-Fill. I don't recall Vac-Fills being described at thick or thin models. Hopefully Roger W. or kirsh chime in, they would know how to describe it, as exact as possible.

 

Anyway, very nice pen!

[Lazard 20]

http://s7.postimg.org/6z3ll0xfv/1946_SHEAFFER_1946_TUCKAWAY_1946_AD.jpg

http://s29.postimg.org/4fwclclvr/1945_1.jpg

[Lazard 20]

http://s21.postimg.org/7pvtdnrs7/TRIUMPH_SPIRAL_FINGER.jpg

Edited April 27, 2014 by Lazard 20

[Lazard 20]

"TM" as "New Thin Model" concept is slightly posterior (filling mechanism and color) to your fountain pen.

 

1949 - Introduced TOUCHDOWN filling mechanism using ink sac deflated by compression of air... and

 

http://s10.postimg.org/fs9d51l8p/Introduced_TM_thin_Model.jpg

Edited April 27, 2014 by Lazard 20

[Lazard 20]

...is it correct to call them "Triumph" nibs too?

 

In 1942 SheafferS introduced this point (curiously Sheafffer´S ended up paying fees to Mr. Wing and Parker Pen Co for collision with 51 nib patent click here for more info) with new TRIUMPH fountain pens line, but soon SheafferS referred this point as "Triumph revolutionary pen point" and afther that we can read SheafferS docs as "Giant 14 K "TRIUMPH" nib" so we would well to denominate them so, TRIUMPH nib.

Edited April 27, 2014 by Lazard 20

[Drone]

Thank you everyone for the information. Lazard 20, those are beautiful advertisements. I didn't have the last ad that shows the cap band just like the band on my pen. So it looks like this pen may have been from 1945 or so as claimed by the seller. Close enough.

Thanks again, David

[Florida Blue]

  On 4/27/2014 at 1:50 PM, Drone said:

 

Lately, I began to wonder about this pen. It certainly fits into the Valiant category, but I've never seen a thick Valiant with a wide autograph band on it like this before.

 

Just a point of clarification, but that wouldn't be an autograph band. The autograph bands were smooth 14kt gold bands. However, I'm sure if the original owner wanted that pen engraved they could. Sometimes you see the gold filled bands engraved.

 

Also, great looking pen! That wide gold band looks very nice all polished up.

Edited April 28, 2014 by Florida Blue

[Drone]

Well, once you start digging sometimes you end up with bones...

Ramon (FPN Member "Lazard 20") contacted me by PM. He has some vintage Sheaffer documents that shed light on this pen (thanks Ramon).

 

The Sheaffer's 1946 catalog lists this pen as a "Valiant II" with "Symbol 94W". The Sheaffer's replacement parts list for pens manufactured after March 1, 1945 shows two "Valiant II" models: "Factory Symbol 94W" which is a vacuum filler, and "Factory Symbol 94T" which is a lever filler.

The Sheaffer's post March 1, 1945 replacement parts list makes reference to two "Autograph II" models, the vacuum fill "94W Auto" and lever fill "94T Auto".

The 1946 Sheaffer's catalog shows one "Autograph II" model with factory symbol "94W", but lacking the "Auto" shown in the replacement parts list factory symbol. So in the 1946 catalog, only the vacuum fill "Autograph II" and "Valiant II" models are shown and both have the same factory symbol "94W"; which is obviously ambiguous without the "Auto" qualifier for the "Autograph II" as shown on the replacement parts list.

 

In the 1946 catalog, the "Valiant II" and "Autograph II" pens look to be identical in shape, size, and nib type. However as "Florida Blue" indicated, the identically sized cap bands on the two pens differ only by the missing dual stamped trim lines on the top and bottom of the "Autograph II" cap band. The double trim lines are present only on the "Valiant II". Presumably the missing trim bands on the "Autograph II" allows more space for personalization.

One might extrapolate from this data that the lever fill "Valiant II, 94T" and lever fill "Autograph II, 94T Auto" models were discontinued between March 1, 1945 and some time in 1946.

Also, one might venture to guess that there was a Valiant model that predates the "Valiant II"; it may be called the "Valiant I", or simply the "Valiant" model. The same may be true for the "Autograph II" model. From memory I think the earlier "Valiant I" model (as I'm calling it) has an open nib, not the conical "Triumph" nib seen on the later "II" model pens.

It is interesting to note the 1946 catalog lists the "Valiant II" at $12.50 USD and the "Autograph II" at $20.00 USD. Quite a difference for what seems to be essentially identical pens. Or it may be that the cap band on the "Autograph II" is more expensive because of more gold needed to endure etching or engraving during personalization.

 

For comparison with modern pen prices, simple scaling with the U.S. Consumer Price Index (CPI) puts the $12.50 USD "Valiant II" in 1946 at around $150.00 in 2014. FWIW, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics CPI Inflation Calculator is here:

 

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl

 

So simply-put, my pen seems to be a:

 

Sheaffer's brown striated 1945-6 vacuum-fill Valiant II, factory symbol 94W, with a 14K two-tone medium conical Triumph Lifetime nib.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Drone

[jar]

Autograph Sheaffers had a 14k cap band, not plated. Usually they also had a 14k clip. Both would have been proof marked.

[Lazard 20]

"It is interesting to note the 1946 catalog lists the "Valiant II" at $12.50 USD and the "Autograph II" at $20.00 USD. Quite a difference for what seems to be essentially identical pens. Or it may be that the cap band on the "Autograph II" is more expensive because of more gold needed to endure etching or engraving during personalization."

 

The Autograph clip and band are 585/1000 gold hence the difference of $12.5 to $20. Please, note too that "1946 catalog" in the other document I sent you is exclusively one Lazard´s personal annotation. Now an Autograph image about 1949.

 

http://s22.postimg.org/53x96ifsx/autograph.jpg

Edited April 29, 2014 by Lazard 20

[FarmBoy]

Isn't the catalog in the PCA library?

[Lazard 20]

  On 4/29/2014 at 2:04 PM, FarmBoy said:

Isn't the catalog in the PCA library?

 

Cuestion too personal but I will reply you. No, the photo above belongs to a catalog purchased in a famous website.

Edited April 29, 2014 by Lazard 20

[Drone]

Ah, so my guessing that the Autograph pen had a gold cap band that does indeed seem to justify the original list price difference with the Valiant II is valid.. Thank you for the added clarifying comments this in this thread about this.

I suspected the documents shown to me to by Ramon "Lazard 20" via our PM might be proprietary in some way. So out of respect I do not post them in this thread.

Looking back, I should add that the original seller indicated this pen is too small for his/her hand. That is correct. If you usually write un-posted.

 

But posted this pen at 5-7/8" long is no problem for me, even with larger hands. IMO this pen was designed to write posted. Posted it is very well balanced and not too heavy at all. This is something I wish modern pen makers would learn. BTW I do not see a longer pen when posted in the 1946 Sheaffer's Catalog than the Valiant II or the Autograph II.

Here is the original link to the FPN Classifieds for-sale post for this pen by by FPN Member "Z500" in early April 2013. But I can't get the for-sale post to reload, and a various means of search don't seem to help. But I didn't beat the search to death.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/classifieds/item/18362-1945-sheaffer-lifetime-valiant-fountain-pen-restored/

Again, thanks for all the feedback. This Valiant II Vac with the Triumph M nib I was lucky enough to get is a real keeper in my opinion. It will cared for and if-ever resold it will be sold via the FPN to someone that appreciates it, and keeps it alive.

[kirchh]

  On 4/29/2014 at 2:23 PM, Lazard 20 said:

 

Cuestion too personal but I will reply you. No, the photo above belongs to a catalog purchased in a famous website.

 

Todd can clarify, but I believe he is not referring to the photo from the 1949 catalog, but rather to the catalog referred to here:

 

"note too that '1946 catalog' in the other document I sent you is exclusively one Lazard´s personal annotation."

 

--Daniel

[BJORNBERG]

  On 4/27/2014 at 1:50 PM, Drone said:

Drone, on 27 Apr 2014 - 14:50, said:

Hello,

 

In early April 2013 I purchased this pen here on FPN from Member Z500. The pen was restored and was exactly as described is the sale post. I was very happy with the sale. Thanks Z500.

 

It was claimed the pen was a Valiant Thick Model with a conical Lifetime 14K two-tone M nib. The striated brown pen is standard sized (I think it is anyway, 5-1/8" capped, 5-7/8" posted):and is a vacuum filler (thin stiff plunger wire). The the clip is 1-3/8" long and the cap band is a little under 5/8" wide.The pen is not personalized. The M nib is a wonderfully smooth writer - the pen stays in my regular rotation.

 

The strong imprint says:

 

W.A. SHEAFFER PEN CO.

FORT MADISON, IOWA, U.S.A.

- MADE IN U.S.A. -

 

Lately, I began to wonder about this pen. It certainly fits into the Valiant category, but I've never seen a thick Valiant with a wide autograph band on it like this before. Then again, I am not a Sheaffer's expert by any means.

 

Perhaps a true Sheaffer's Expert can verify the model & size, and perhaps narrow-down the manufacture date (1939-45?)

 

Is it strictly correct to call this nib a "Triumph" nib? What about conical nibs like this but on Thin Model or "TM" pens; is it correct to call them "Triumph" nibs too?

 

The picture below is from the original for-sale post.

 

Thank You, David

 

DSC_4011.jpg

 

Hi,

It's my lucky day, was looking for information about one of my recent purchase of vintage pens, then I found this topic.

It has been difficult to find a model number on this pen by viewing photos on internet, I had the following models on my list of possible candidates.

- Triumph 1250

- Triumph 1000 Balanced

But when I saw your picture on your pen, I was convinced that I got the same pen.

Bought it for $ 25 and hopefully so is it worth a little bit more

 

http://bjornberg.eu/fp/Valiant2.jpg

[jar]

  On 3/18/2016 at 7:32 AM, BJORNBERG said:

 

Hi,

It's my lucky day, was looking for information about one of my recent purchase of vintage pens, then I found this topic.

It has been difficult to find a model number on this pen by viewing photos on internet, I had the following models on my list of possible candidates.

- Triumph 1250

- Triumph 1000 Balanced

But when I saw your picture on your pen, I was convinced that I got the same pen.

Bought it for $ 25 and hopefully so is it worth a little bit more

 

 

Just remember those numbers will not be models but price codes. Often that can help determine a model but also there were usually more than one model selling at a given price point.

[Ed333]

My recent marine green acquisition, restored, a great writer, it looks like mine fits the above descriptions? Another point, there is a second white dot on the butt end of the pen, don't know its significance, if any.