Celluloid And Alkaline Inks: How Alkaline Is Too Alkaline?

[Arcanius]

I've noticed people saying (often citing Richard Binder's site) that heavily alkaline inks are not to be used in celluloid pens, as they can cause damage or "melt" the body. From what I've seen and searched, there's no real threshold for an ink to be alkaline enough to dissolve celluloid. Some consider pH levels up to 8.0 or 9.0 to be "neutral," but how safe are such pH levels truly for celluloid? Say, if I want to put Iroshizuku or a Sailor ink in a Vacumatic, what can I expect? What about Waterman Red or Noodler's black (assuming I wasn't worrying about staining), which are both slightly alkaline, around high 7s or low 8s?
-Bogdan

Edited April 8, 2014 by Arcanius

[Moshe ben David]

Just curious. Have you asked Richard for his advice?

[Arcanius]

I haven't asked Richard, no. I assume he's busy with other emails pertaining with his business and I would prefer to not pester him if I can get an answer here without bothering anybody. If nothing emerges here, I may send him or David Isaacson---he might know a thing or two about celluloid and Vacumatics---an email.

[Florida Blue]

I would think you should be fine with an ink like Waterman red. Waterman inks are considered very safe by the fountain pen community at large.

 

Parker produced two very alkaline inks for use in the 51 only: Parker 51 Ink and Superchrome Ink. The 51 ink had a PH of around 11 and Superchrome of 11.4 to 11.8. PH level depended on the color.

 

This thread talks at length on the PH level of those two inks:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/83190-parker-ink-ph/

 

Those inks should never be used in any pen, even a Parker 51. They can damage celluloid and they rapidly degraded ink sacs and diaphragms, which is why Parker specifically stated on the boxes that they were for the 51 only and were not suitable for the Vacumatic.

 

These inks were designed to dry almost instantaneously on contact with paper and Parker used Lucite in the 51 rather than celluloid because it could withstand the alkalinity of the inks developed for that pen. That's also why Parker later used a pli-glass sac rather then latex.

 

Also, I believe Richard Binder does not recommend the use of Noodler's or Private Reserve inks in general because of their highly saturated nature. Many on FPN have had both good and bad experiences with them.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Florida Blue

[Arcanius]

I have read and understand the lessons on Superchrome and 51 ink. I wouldn't dare put those inks in a vintage pen as they are known to damage celluloid. Similarly, I would not put BSB in a pen I wouldn't like stained. I have also read Richard Binder's and Greg Minuskin's recommendations against Private Reserve and Noodler's inks.
My question was not about vintage inks renowned for their extreme alkalinity, nor about what some call 'boutique brands' of inks which may be highly saturated, but about well-known, trusted, modern inks that are still alkaline, although less so than 51 and Superchrome by some orders of magnitude.