De Atramentis Document Ink

[lapis]

Not trying to show off, just wanting to prove that they did, yes, once exist (mine still do, hart, har):

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/peli46/5_De_A_Dokus.jpg

[Morbus Curiositas]

Ooo.. now I want to see the Turquoise and Magenta. And this one is not the dark blue?

As lapis says, there definitely has been turquoise and magenta Document Ink (see, for example, this Australian web site), but I've not seen mention of them recently and they are not on the De Atramentis web site. Dr Jansen will be able to give a definitive answer, but I suspect there was limited interest in these colours and you might only be able to get some if you find a supplier who has some in stock. I'd guess that most people interested in permanent, waterproof and non-fading fountain pen ink are likely to be using it for business or other serious purposes, so will gravitate towards typical business colours of blue, blue black and black.

 

I realise that your professional background doesn't stop you making inventive use of colour, Amber (for what it's worth, I'm a law student). I wonder what ink you use for signatures in your professional capacity.

 

 

I had wondered if the turquoise and magenta Document Inks used cyan and magenta pigments intended for CMYK print processes, but cybaea's review of Document Ink turquoise shows it is not cyan. Turquoise wouldn't be the first word that came into my head for that shade. Maybe it's the lack of colour calibration or correction, but cybaea's scan looks more like what I'd expect of turquoise mixed with around 15% black ink (compare to the Goulet swab and writing sample for Lamy turquoise for my expectation of turquoise).

 

 

The other change in the Document Ink range is that recent production seemingly no longer claims ISO 12757-2 compliance - the English version of the De Atramentis site doesn't mention it at all, though the German version claims compliance with ISO 127757-2 (sic). I don't know whether this is because of the debatable application of a roller ball standard to fountain pen ink (not that that's stopped Montblanc claiming compliance for their relatively recent Permanent fountain pen inks), the cost of formal testing, some incompatibility between Dr Jansen's small scale production methods and ongoing compliance, or some other reason.

 

If you need formal compliance with the ISO standard, you probably need to talk to Dr Jansen and might have to go for the Montblanc inks.

 

 

I've been a blue black person since school days, when I used 1980s/1990s vintage Quink Blue Black with Solv-X in a couple of Parker 25s. As many reading these forums will be aware, Quink Blue Black was always a slightly different shade to many manufacturer's blue black inks, and had the annoying habit of changing colour a while after writing before fading. The Solv-X Quinks have been discontinued, and the new Quink Blue Black is a different ink entirely, with some posters claiming it's similar or identical to Waterman Blue Black. I found my bottle of the new Quink Blue Black very disappointing.

 

My ink needs have also changed. These days, health and practicality forces me to use the computer for most tasks. When I use a fountain pen I really want my ink to be waterproof, non-fading and well-behaved even on questionable paper (when I don't always have the option of using my preferred Rhodia paper).

 

 

I'm still on my first fill of Document Ink dark blue in my Lamy Accent (steel EF nib), but it's been everything I hoped for so far, including a blue black colour that I greatly prefer to the current Quink blue black. The feel of the pen on paper is good, despite the fine nib. I can see this being my 'go to' blue black for everyday carry use.

 

I felt the risk of using this ink in the Lamy was low. It's relatively easy to take the section, feed and nib apart for deep cleaning if a simple flush is inadequate and a new section / feed / M nib apparently costs less than £20 including shipping, which is the most likely components to be damaged by an ink disaster. The worst case would be requiring a new EF nib and Z26 converter as well as a section and feed, bringing the total repair bill to around £30, though I'd expect the nib to survive most disaster scenarios. I am not yet comfortable enough to put Document Ink in my modern Yard-O-Led Viceroy Grand (repair potentially expensive, though some people have found Yard-O-Led very reasonable for repairs that fall outside the lifetime warranty) or my Parker 25s (a design from around 40 years ago, with both Parker and the suppliers I am aware of having run out of NOS M nibs and feeds).

 

 

I can certainly see myself making a future purchase of Document Ink black for those occasions when only black is acceptable. I still have a half full bottle of Quick permanent black with Solv-X, but always found this a disappointing ink - as many have noted, it's rather grey and somewhat dry. I'll have to see whether I put Document Ink in my Yard-O-Led or whether I buy another Lamy pen.

Not trying to show off, just wanting to prove that they did, yes, once exist (mine still do, hart, har):

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/peli46/5_De_A_Dokus.jpg

Hi Amberleadavis...

 

I did not experienceddrying in the pen...

I have been using the ink for a year now...

 

To Amberleaddavis, David and Lapis...

 

I have written Dr. Jansen an email with all of rhe quwstions you have.. I also destilled some own questions...

maybe I will call him tomorow....

 

I will publish the D-A document dark blue soon...

 

But first I will do a review of Pelikans Royal blue...

 

I have seen a review of that yesterday....

 

I still have an 19 years old bottle of Pelikan royal blue (half full) ans I bought a brand new nottle today...

 

I thoyght it would be nice to compare the two in a handwritten review.

 

The topic title will be something like...

 

Contest of the blue Pelikan kings,

The old royal vs the old royal....

 

See you soon,

 

Kind regards

 

Peter

[amberleadavis]

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_247.jpg

 

Okay, any ideas where I can find the magenta?

[Morbus Curiositas]

http://1.2.3.9/bmi/sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_247.jpg

 

Okay, any ideas where I can find the magenta?

How very nice a handwritten answer, so eloquently written with lovely inks :-)

 

Davis put in a link in his reply of an Australian website.

 

But I believe I definatly have to call Dr. Jansen tomorrow. Hope he can help us out.

 

He has a vast array of wine inks made from various grapes and wines. Best thing is you can send him a few bottles of your favourite ink which he transfers into ink....

 

Please do not drink :-)

 

He makes inks on demand so maybe he can make some Magenta document inks...

 

I will let you know as soon as possible.

 

Have a nice evening or afternoon (it's 7.45 pm here)

 

Peter

[amberleadavis]

David, thank you for the link, I sent them an email asking about the magenta and shipping to the US. based on prior experience, I am afraid that shipping from Oz may cost as much as the ink which would make the total cost around $50 for a single bottle (at which point I'd have to wait). Nevertheless, I'm hoping for the best. Peter, thank you!!

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_249.jpg

[Morbus Curiositas]

David, thank you for the link, I sent them an email asking about the magenta and shipping to the US. based on prior experience, I am afraid that shipping from Oz may cost as much as the ink which would make the total cost around $50 for a single bottle (at which point I'd have to wait). Nevertheless, I'm hoping for the best. Peter, thank you!!

 

http://1.2.3.9/bmi/sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_249.jpg

Amber Lea,

 

Thanks for your, yet again, lovely handwritten answer.

 

Dr. Jansen send me an email this morning he is very pleased of course. He studies the qeustions, yours, David's an mine this weekend.

 

 

I will give the both of you, your answers next week and publish the results of my questions. I will do it in a handwritten text maybe, but must warn you that my handwriting is not as elegant as yours is...

 

Dr Jansen offered me to send bottles for testing free of charge... :-) :-) :-)

 

So please let me know if you have an Ink your interested in :-)

 

Kind regards Peter

[amberleadavis]

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_252.jpg

[Morbus Curiositas]

Not trying to show off, just wanting to prove that they did, yes, once exist (mine still do, hart, har):

http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu264/peli46/5_De_A_Dokus.jpg

 

 

Hello Lapis,

 

Nice those inks, but the question is... Are the two bottles most right on your photo available???

 

The answer is in the letter to Amber Lea down here...

 

Regards Peter

 

 

 

 

[amberleadavis]

Thank you! I'll post up the response later today. I wrote you a return letter.

[Silvire]

Thanks for the review!

I've been looking into permanent inks quite a lot lately, and your review really comes in handy!

[lapis]

Hello Lapis,

 

Nice those inks, but the question is... Are the two bottles most right on your photo avai

 

 

 

Hello Lapis,

 

Nice those inks, but the question is... Are the two bottles most right on your photo available???

 

Magenta (MAGENTA) and Turquoise (TÜRKIS) are likely no longer available today. As stated above, I bought them about 2 years ago at the same time I was buying 1 or 2 of the other De Atramentis Document Inks from Rolf Thiel (very unfortunately no longer in business) . He then offered me these 2 (Magenta and Turquoise) as inks which had once existed but were already in the process of being discontinued.... Sooo.... I said of course "YES".

[amberleadavis]

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_283.jpg

[amberleadavis]

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_283b.jpg

[amberleadavis]

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_284.jpg

[amberleadavis]

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/2014-Inklings/slides/2014-Ink_284b.jpg

[Morbus Curiositas]

Thanks for the review!

 

I've been looking into permanent inks quite a lot lately, and your review really comes in handy!

Hello sylvire

 

I have also the De Atramentis dark blue... this is a black blue ink.

 

The review will be posted soon... With a comparison with the blue ink.

 

As you might know from my last reply, there is also a black version.

 

Magenta and turquoise will be available soon.

 

Greetz Peter

[WilsonCQB1911]

I'd buy them if I could find someplace that sold them in the US.

[Morbus Curiositas]

I'd buy them if I could find someplace that sold them in the US.

That is a bit of a problem in th US...

 

Maybe you could ask Brian Goulet to order a load of it, he carries De Atramentis... I guess there must be a Demand for Document ink in the US too.

 

I will be in contact with Dr. Jansen, the owner of De Atramentis, next week.

 

Though not afilliated I could ask him if he could do a special offer for FPN members.

I guess not free of shipment... But a good offer can do some nice compensation...

 

Regards,

 

Peter

[WilsonCQB1911]

That is a bit of a problem in th US...

 

Maybe you could ask Brian Goulet to order a load of it, he carries De Atramentis... I guess there must be a Demand for Document ink in the US too.

 

I will be in contact with Dr. Jansen, the owner of De Atramentis, next week.

 

Though not afilliated I could ask him if he could do a special offer for FPN members.

I guess not free of shipment... But a good offer can do some nice compensation...

 

Regards,

 

Peter

 

Goulet is saying that the inks aren't distributed into the US. I wonder if it's an issue like with Pelikan blue-black, where there is some prohibited chemical by US laws?

[Morbus Curiositas]

 

Goulet is saying that the inks aren't distributed into the US. I wonder if it's an issue like with Pelikan blue-black, where there is some prohibited chemical by US laws?

Dear Wilson,

 

I cannot give you an answer on the chemical law issue, yet.

 

I know that most of De Atramentis follow the 2013, EN71-3 standards which is a European safe standard for toys, forbidding the use of certain chemicals. Down here is a link.

 

http://www.sgs.com/~/media/Global/Documents/Brochures/sgssafeguards11113cenpublishesnewtoysafetystandarden7132013a4en13.ashx

 

All the normal (scented, standard etc.) comply this standard as mention underneath each ink on the website of De Atramentis.

 

With the Document inks there is only a notification of the ISO 127757-2. standard (standard for document inks) and no EN71-3 standard.

 

As i have mentioned in my previous replies to this topic I am in regular contact with Dr Jansen of De Atramentis. He is very busy at them moment but he will answer my questions as soo as possible.

 

I will ask him about your/our thoughts on safetey standards, and will answer you as soon as possible.

 

But may be you vcan simply order from the De Atramentis Webshop (Ordering medication from abroad is usually no problem too, so why should Ink be).

 

Hope this was informative for now and of course I will let you know ASAP.

 

Warmest regards Peter