18K Nib Question

[hankas]

Hi,

 

I currently own a Pelikan Souveran M250 with 14k gold nib manufactured in late 1980s or early 1990s. It's a fine pen and it has been a reliable companion. The other day, I saw the Pelikan Souveran M800 (with 18k gold nib) and I have been going back and forth about buying it. I heard that the 18k gold nib is less durable than 14k and it is prone to wear and tear from daily use. I wonder how much of this is true, and whether I should forget about M800 completely and stick to my trusty M250.

 

Thanks.

 

Henry

[KBeezie]

Is it 18K solid gold nib, or 18KGP (Gold Plated)?

 

Pure gold is very malleable (easy to bend and change form), 14K has 58% pure gold in it, and the rest of another metal (which can make it flex or stiff depending on the alloy), and 18K us 75% pure gold, where as 22K is 92% and 24K something like 99.9999%.

 

So the higher the gold content the 'softer' (easier to nick/scratch/etc) it can be depending on the metal used for the remainder of the alloy.

Edited March 19, 2014 by KBeezie

[shuuemura]

You don't write with the gold nib, you write with the tipping on the gold nib. As long as you don't abuse your pens the tipping will last for a very long time.

[KBeezie]

You don't write with the gold nib, you write with the tipping on the gold nib. As long as you don't abuse your pens the tipping will last for a very long time.

 

Out of curiosity (since you might know), what difference is there between a 14K and 18K gold nib (and for that matter steel) if they're all tipped the same?

 

Edit: I do know 'back in the day' gold was primarily used for it's lack of corrosion.

Edited March 19, 2014 by KBeezie

[Guest Ray Cornett]

 

Out of curiosity (since you might know), what difference is there between a 14K and 18K gold nib (and for that matter steel) if they're all tipped the same?

 

Edit: I do know 'back in the day' gold was primarily used for it's lack of corrosion.

The difference is flexibilty and price. Cheaper pens might use 14 whereas a more expensive pen might go with 18. They still use gold for the corrosion factor.

[KBeezie]

The difference is flexibilty and price. Cheaper pens might use 14 whereas a more expensive pen might go with 18. They still use gold for the corrosion factor.

Yet another member tells me the gold has nothing to do with flexibility. (can't remember which thread).

[Guest Ray Cornett]

How can it not? More gold means it is more flexible.

[Guest Ray Cornett]

Here we go. Google is our friend........

 

http://www.nibs.com/what-is-a-fountain-pen-nib.htm

[watch_art]

Ever seen a Waterman Edson? 18k nib and stiff as a nail.

Gold does not equal flex. There were plenty of very rigid (manifold) nibs made "back in the day".

 

Depending on how the company wants it, a 14k or 18k gold nib can be made rigid or soft. Some nibs can be modified aftermarket for added flex.

 

Inks today aren't so corrosive though - so corrosion isn't an issue. Steel nibs are better than they used to be, too.

 

hankas - You have nothing to worry about. If you buy a Pelikan with an 18k nib it will last you a very very long time, unless you use it in a game of darts.

[hankas]

Is it 18K solid gold nib, or 18KGP (Gold Plated)?

 

Pure gold is very malleable (easy to bend and change form), 14K has 58% pure gold in it, and the rest of another metal (which can make it flex or stiff depending on the alloy), and 18K us 75% pure gold, where as 22K is 92% and 24K something like 99.9999%.

 

So the higher the gold content the 'softer' (easier to nick/scratch/etc) it can be depending on the metal used for the remainder of the alloy.

 

It's solid gold. My M250 has 14k solid gold nib, and the M800 has 18k solid gold nib as well (mixed with rhodium I believe). I have no complaint about my existing pen, but I am just concerned that if I were to buy the M800, the new pen may not be as practical and as durable as my existing M250 pen. After all, M800 costs quite a bit of money, so I need a second opinion whether it worth the extra cost. There is no point paying that amount of money for 'inferior' pens.

[KBeezie]

Ever seen a Waterman Edson? 18k nib and stiff as a nail.

Gold does not equal flex. There were plenty of very rigid (manifold) nibs made "back in the day".

 

Depending on how the company wants it, a 14k or 18k gold nib can be made rigid or soft. Some nibs can be modified aftermarket for added flex.

 

Inks today aren't so corrosive though - so corrosion isn't an issue. Steel nibs are better than they used to be, too.

 

hankas - You have nothing to worry about. If you buy a Pelikan with an 18k nib it will last you a very very long time, unless you use it in a game of darts.

 

It's been my understanding that how hard or flexy a gold nib is, is what metal is used for the remaining % of the alloy. So whatever is used for the 42% of 14K or 25% of 18K.

 

And yea I know that *most* inks now days don't corrode, so the need for gold isn't quite as 'needed', I see it being more aesthetics or for flex (ie: if you're choosing between flex, there's a better chance of getting a good flex from a gold flex nib than a steel flex nib). But I do know that a gold flex nib is more likely to be damaged than a steel one (but by how much a chance?)

 

But like you said, between 14K and 18K, I can't see there being a serious difference in terms of durability, it's not like you threw 22K gold onto the nib which is going to be harder to keep stiff or in form in such a thin fashion like a nib. I know if you doing 22K gold plating, it'd be quite a bit easier to scratch off than 14K or 18K (like with jewelry).

Edited March 19, 2014 by KBeezie

[hankas]

So you are saying that there is no benefit in purchasing pens with 18k gold nibs other than its prestige value?

[KBeezie]

So you are saying that there is no benefit in purchasing pens with 18k gold nibs other than its prestige value?

 

That appears to be the case unless you've read reviews of one being softer or smoother than the other (which appears to be more impacted by what it's tipped in).

[HandLikeAFist]

Hankas, 14K and 18 K gold are not solid gold; they are alloys of gold and another metal, usually copper, I think, but I could be wrong.

 

Solid gold is 24K, 100 percent gold. You can work out what K mark equals what percentage pure gold.

 

Electrum is a gold-silver alloy.

 

Unless you mean solid gold as opposed to gold-plated. Yes, I suppose you could say solid 12K gold, but it would be only 50% gold; solid, perhaps.

[KBeezie]

Hankas, 14K and 18 K gold are not solid gold; they are alloys of gold and another metal, usually copper, I think, but I could be wrong.

 

Solid gold is 24K, 100 percent gold. You can work out what K mark equals what percentage pure gold.

 

Electrum is a gold-silver alloy.

 

Unless you mean solid gold as opposed to gold-plated. Yes, I suppose you could say solid 12K gold, but it would be only 50% gold; solid, perhaps.

 

That was pretty much already established earlier in the thread. And it's pretty much assumed that if one says 'solid' they're simply talking bout the whole thing being made of the gold alloy as opposed to just being plated. It's already been established that 14K is ~58% and 18K is 75%, also 24K is not 100%, but rather 99.999... (I don't think for legal reasons someone can ever actually claim 100% since in the process there's probably some extremely minute amount of impurities in there).

[hankas]

I guess I am just trying to find justifications about buying the Pelikan M800. My heart says "Go get it!" while my head says "No". LOL

 

Anyhow, I read that for a nib 14k is actually better than 18k. Is that true?

[KBeezie]

I guess I am just trying to find justifications about buying the Pelikan M800. My heart says "Go get it!" while my head says "No". LOL

 

Anyhow, I read that for a nib 14k is actually better than 18k. Is that true?

 

Depends on what you mean by 'better'. To me it's better cost wise

[Bo Bo Olson]

14 K is just as corrosive resistant as 18 K....18 K is the status nib...with more weaknesses for writing and a plus for Bling.

 

14 K can be made semi-flex or even 'flexi' by a good nibmeister. 18 K can't. In stead of the nice and springy with tine spread, of a good semi-vintage or vintage a 18 K nib can be 'soft'

Modern 14 K can be semi-nail, like on the new Pelikans.

 

I have over well over 20 semi-flex and 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex in 14 C or 14 K. (Some of the others are first class steel that matches the gold nibs.)

According to some 14 C is a bit more flexible that 14 K....odd I never think to check that...but I'm not quite as AR as I could be. I have 14 C on most of my '50's German pens, 14 K seemed to come in in the '60's on some.

 

I've got a vintage springy 18 C nib on my wish list....as soon as my wallet recovers form the triple by pass operation...and I can remember to look.

 

I have an 18 K Lamy Persona nail, and a 18 K MB 'springy"....tip bends as much as semi-flex, but tines don't spread much 2 X a light down stroke instead of 3 X a regular flex, semi-flex or 'flexi'/maxi-semi-flex....comfortable, but IMO not nears a fun as my 28 or so, semi-flex 14 K.

 

18 K vs 18C...are different eras on the whole, and made with different alloys out side the 75% gold....18 C is reputed to be springier, and spring back more than the easier to bend and stay bent 18 K.

Edited March 19, 2014 by Bo Bo Olson

[Bananabender]

I have 14k and 18k montblanc pens and the only differencevI can see is that the 18k nibs have more'depth' to the gold colour.(richer!)

But perhaps thats just me

[Faisel]

I understand that part of the switch to 18k arises from laws in various EU states that limits what can be described as "gold" by a vendor to items that are a minimum 18k: http://www.richardspens.com/?page=ref/ttp/materials.htm