My Start And Progress On Spencerian (Yet Another Thread)

[Jbloodwo]

Well here is a start of another "i am trying to go old school" thread. well here i am at the second page of workbook 1 from he spencerian bundle at Amazon.

still not very consistent in my hand. using my second pen a jinhao 250

 

 

the photo is a cross post i guess from the "what pen are you using today ... show up" section

 

[Apprenti]

This is good, you can quite clearly see an improvement at the end of the page from the beginning.

 

My advice would be to exaggerate the curves less. This will probably be easier with a pencil or a very fine nib.

 

Keep it up

Joe

[Tashina]

I'm using the same set of instructional booklets and am about halfway through the second book. However, soon after starting, I switched to using some specially lined paper from John Neal Books as the paper in the original booklets bleeds through. Also, I wanted to preserve those booklets.

[Jbloodwo]

Actually I am making copies of the pages as I did not want to write in the books

[Moose22]

I've been using fine point and japanese fine point pens because of these spencer books. It is a LOT easier to get to the shapes and see how you're really doing with the fine points.

 

Alas, the paper in the books is crappy for fountain pens. Making copies is probably a good idea just because you can use paper that's better to write on, though I'm lazy. I just went ahead and started writing in the books.

 

Speaking of lazy -- I did about one or two lines of each book and promised to get back to it. That was December. I should probably dig those things out again.

[Tashina]

Actually I am making copies of the pages as I did not want to write in the books

How are you coming with your practice?

 

As I work my way through the 2nd booklet of the Mott series, I find that I like the numerals as given in Michael Sull's Spencerian book better than the ones in the Mott series. A little trouble with the number 3, however.

[Jbloodwo]

Still working on book 1 taking it kinda slowly. But my goal is not to burn n churn my way through the books but take my time so I have some consistency. M

[Tashina]

This is actually my 2nd go at the P.R. Spencer workbooks. The first go-round, I got through the 1st book and part of the 2nd. This time, after doing some review exercises from book one, I re-started book 2. The intermediate goal this time is to get through the 2nd book and the first half of the 3rd book. At that point, I will have learnt the complete set of lower case letters and can begin to use Spencerian (e.e.cummings style) for all my writing.

 

Until then, I don't think it is feasible to mix the Spencerian and the degenerate Palmer which I now have. You just can't switch back and forth letter by letter, but once the full lower case alphabet is learned, then the switch can be made.

[Jbloodwo]

well no photo update in a bit. here is the start of page 8 with the letter x. starting to think i need a narrower nib. still mostly using the jinhao the black line is my cross aventerra. i have a wherever Pennant from a pif on the way and will give that a try.

 

[Tashina]

Is there an art store near where you live? If so, you should be able to get some dip pen holders and maybe a proper nib (Gillott 303, or the G nib from either Zebra or Nikko, though they are more likely to carry the 303). A simple straight holder is just a few dollars and the Speedball oblique holder about the same. The latter was recommended on the other Spencerian thread.

 

I have a Michael Sull oblique holder which I got some time back and then it sat around for a long time before I picked it up and started to use it very recently (due to a recommendation on the other thread). The oblique holder is really how it should all be done, or so I am convinced after finally trying it.

 

You can also practice monoline Spencerian with a sharp pencil and I have done this as well.

 

I will try to post a photo (or scan, not sure which is better) of my own practice sometime soon.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Tashina

[Jbloodwo]

I have been thinking about a sull or a or one of PrestoTenebroso's holders. either one would be for the sinister hand.

[Apprenti]

Brian Smith (known as Musinkman om these forums and owner of Unique Obliques) makes amazingly good holders, used by people like Joe Vitolo!

 

Joe

[Jbloodwo]

My deram one would be a strange combo of paduck tiger wood and purple heart...

[Jbloodwo]

Arrgh having issues with the version of the letter c in this workbook (

 

any one have any tips?

 

[Moose22]

A few tips that helped me -- I'm pretty much at the same stage you are, a few lines in each exercise of the first few books is all I've done.

 

First, take a beak and do another letter, then come back to it. C messed with my head and still does as you have a LOT of habit to unlearn. It is NOT a round letter like you're trying to do, it is a lot closer to the lower cased e with a thingy on the end and working your fundamental lines will help. For me, when I came back to it after trying other letters it just went better for me. Same with x and a couple of others that just didn't work for me on the first pass.

 

Second, use the finest nib you own. Spencer likes fine lines. Even though this is practical and the movements work very will with fatter pens, learning it is going better for me.

 

Third, I made a copy of the workbook page and wrote over the example on the the top line. Trace it again and again to get the muscle memory going. When I did it free form after that, I actually could see where I was going wrong more easily.

[proton007]

Jbloodwo,

 

There's a tip I've found handy, and it's helped me whenever I've tried to improve my handwriting.

 

It goes something like this.

Use the workbook to learn the movement given at the top of the exercise, but don't fill it up yet.

That's because your hand and arm need to adjust and learn the movement first, and the size of letters in the workbook is too small to do that properly.

 

Use a plain A4 sheet, and practice with big sized letters, as big as you're comfortable with. Do this for a page or two, until you find your hand/arm can create the letters smoothly.

Then reduce the size of your letters.

 

The reason behind this is that the boxes in the workbook constraint the hand movement, you're too focused on keeping the letters within boundaries than acquiring the fluidity and confidence to draw smooth curves. Forming big letters is easier than small, but once you have the basics of a letter right, you can gradually tune finer motor controls.

This is one of the reasons for that 'shriveled' look some students have in their handwriting.

 

Give it a try. It's worked for me before, and I still use it now in my Palmer practice.

Edited April 15, 2014 by proton007

[RodgerM]

I agree with Tashina that a good way to practice spencerian is with a pencil. Don't worry about any shading, learn all of your letters first. When you switch over to ink, I find it far easier to use an oblique holder and typically use a Nikko G nib. The Nikko's are smooth with a medium flex.

 

Working with a pointed steel nib is much different than working with a fountain pen and is a whole different animal. Three things really need to be working well to be successful; the nib, ink and paper. If any of those three are not right, working with an oblique can be an exercise in frustration. Most oblique holders use sheet brass for the flange that holds the nib. This is great because you can BEND the flange so that you find the sweet spot for your grip. It is good practice to rest the edge of your thumb against the flange and use your index finger to flex the nib.

 

Always use a dip pen ink, not fountain pen ink. McCaffery's Penman Ink, or sumi ink are good choices to start with. You can actually use most fountain pen inks if you add Gum Arabic as a binder.

 

Use good paper, even to practice. I generally use Clairefontaine, but a heavy weight LaserJet paper (better than InkJet paper) works well too, especially when it is lined properly for Spencerian. Also always use a cushion sheet beneath your practice sheet. I use a sheet of blotting paper.

 

If you find the tip of your nib catching on the upstroke, lighten your pressure on the upstroke. If it is still catching, it may be necessary to bend the flange so that the point of the steel nib points up more (i.e. the nib is flatter to the paper). The flange should also be adjusted so that the tines of the nib spread evenly when you push down on the barrel of the pen. It can also be possible that the tines are not even or that you simply need to use a new nib (don't forget to condition the nib).

 

I apologize if I'm just repeating a lot of things here, but this is a subject near and dear to my heart and this is also my first day on the FP network so I haven't seen many posts on this subject yet (but I'll be spend a lot of time looking for those posts!). Good luck!!

 

Rodger