Fact Or Fiction? Why Did Waterman Stop Making Phileas?

[esteroids]

They made a Harley Freewheel with Flames! one of my favorites. If I had the skill or talent to put flames on a black Man 100 I would. But until then I have this. Not an "it" pen, but I have to have at least one pen with flames.

[TwelveDrawings]

With the caveat that I do not believe EVERYTHING I read on the internet, I share this interesting link to one man's history of Waterman pens. Although the section on Phileas is short, it is interesting. -- TwelveDrawings

 

(With thanks to D.ick for pointing out the importance of inserting the link)

 

http://captainchang.com/pens/waterman.html

Edited March 16, 2014 by TwelveDrawings

[RMN]

With the caveat that I do not believe EVERYTHING I read on the internet, I share this interesting link to one man's history of Waterman pens. Although the section on Phileas is short, it is interesting. -- TwelveDrawings

Hi TD

 

Would even be better WITH the link......

 

 

D.ick

[TwelveDrawings]

My stated purpose in starting this thread was to discover any verifiable proof of why Phileas pens were discontinued. There is always the obvious possibility that Phileas sales simply fell and Waterman shut down production. However, this is the Internet where far-fetched conspiracy theories triumph over logical explanations. Let me provide some clues so you may generate your own conspiracy theories.

 

1987: THE ELEGANT WATERMAN LINE WAS BOUGHT BY GILLETTE

"Gillette bought the 105-year-old pen manufacturer in March 1987. It has been selling the pens at discount outlets in the United States. Although sales have increased by 40% since the Gillette takeover, Mrs. Gomez (former Waterman owner) has complained that Gillette's American marketing strategy is devaluing the image of luxury that she had carefully crafted for Waterman in France. 'Waterman is only in its infancy in terms of consumer awareness,' she said in a recent interview. 'If you begin by discounting, you won't go anywhere.'" http://www.nytimes.com/1988/12/16/business/waterman-rift-a-tearful-farewell.html

 

2001: GILLETTE SOLD ALL OF ITS PENS TO RUBBERMAID-NEWELL

"Waterman's French subsidiary, Waterman Jif (later Waterman S.A.), continued to prosper and eventually absorbed what remained of the American company and its British arm. Successfully weathering the challenge of the ballpoint pen, it was acquired by Sanford, a division of Newell Rubbermaid, in 2001, owner of The Parker Pen Company." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waterman_pens

 

2005: PHILEAS CONTINUES BEING A STYLISH BARGAIN

"The Waterman company refuses to be trumped in the style department; currently, they offer the large and glamorous Edson and the exotic Serenité at the top of their full line, with the popular and reliable Phileas at the lower end of the price scale." — 2005 http://www.rickconner.net/penspotters/waterman.html

 

2010-ish: PHILEAS REACHES THE END OF THE LINE

"They were great starter pens and excellent value for the money. However, in the late 2000s as Waterman started refocusing on the high end, there were persistent rumors about the Phileas (a low-end pen) being discontinued. It remained in production at least until 2009 (although the red and green were discontinued in 2008, according to Waterman dealer J.M. Lewertowski) but it seems by 2010-2011 the rumors have become true and the Phileas is officially discontinued." http://www.captainchang.com/pens/modern-waterman-2000.html

 

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Bear in mind that some or all of this may be misinformation. Whoever is really behind this wants to throw us off their tracks. As for me, I think UFO aliens, Bigfoot, and D.B. Cooper were directly responsible for my favorite pen being tossed onto the N.O.B. heap of history.

 

— TwelveDrawings.com

Edited March 20, 2014 by TwelveDrawings

[pajaro]

The discovery that Waterman pens Phileas and Edson were being used as figureheads on Nogales, Mexico, taxis has had a profound negative effect on Waterman sales. Ms. Gomez taken to hospital.

[TwelveDrawings]

The discovery that Waterman pens Phileas and Edson were being used as figureheads on Nogales, Mexico, taxis has had a profound negative effect on Waterman sales. Ms. Gomez taken to hospital.

With a mega-corporation like Gillette buying her out, I hope Ms. Gomez could afford some serious consolations. -- John

[OcalaFlGuy]

Well, they always say in any Good rumor there's some part that's true.

 

Jean Michael Lewertowski told me that indeed the Kultur was the French school pen. In fact, that is the reason for the overabundance of Fine Kultur nibs, that was what went in most of the school pens.

 

To me to say that the Kultur has Anything to do with the Phileas production ending is where the story stumbles.

 

They Aren't the same pen. Close but not the same.

 

There's is NO reason the Phileas could not have remained in production while the Kultur died due to lack of demand. In fact, though one might assume it wasn't true, Staples STILL sells FPs in the price range of the Phileas so it's a given that part of the market is still viable.

 

I would agree it's was a pure strategery move by Waterman.

 

Bruce in Ocala, Fl

[TwelveDrawings]

Bruce, thank you for sharing that clarification from Jean Michael Lewertowski, who is so often cited here as a very reliable source. Intersting that the story about French students probably refers only to the Kultur. It makes sense; the Phileas design hearkens to the 1920s Art Deco style which I doubt many younger buyers would be drawn to.

 

However, the bright colors and translucent plastic of Kultur appear very suitable for a school-aged market. As for the lack of a brass tube, I believe adults equate heftiness with high quality. In a young student, lightness is probably preferable, since they grew up valuing ultralight and ultrathin electronics. (Besides, if you have you tried to lift the average school kid's backpack lately, you will find that extra weight is not an asset.)

 

Thank you for posting on this thread, Bruce. -- TwelveDrawings

Edited March 24, 2014 by TwelveDrawings

[pajaro]

So, you don't think the brass tube is a spacer to force the use of a proprietary converter or cartridge? You think it's just in there to satisfy your criterion that it must be there, presumably to add gravitas?

[JonSzanto]

So, you don't think the brass tube is a spacer to force the use of a proprietary converter or cartridge? You think it's just in there to satisfy your criterion that it must be there, presumably to add gravitas?

 

I can't quite believe this is a serious question, but... if it is, then no company with any brains at all would use something expensive like brass simply to reduce the size of the barrel inner diameter, they would just have a plastic insert. The brass insert must surely be for weight and non-corrosive attributes.

[pajaro]

 

I can't quite believe this is a serious question, but... if it is, then no company with any brains at all would use something expensive like brass simply to reduce the size of the barrel inner diameter, they would just have a plastic insert. The brass insert must surely be for weight and non-corrosive attributes.

Did you ever try to use a non Waterman converter in a Phileas? This became a serious observation when I did. Of course, the narrowing of the barrel might have been simply a beneficial side effect to the company. Pens do not seem to have industry standard architecture.

[RMN]

Did you ever try to use a non Waterman converter in a Phileas? This became a serious observation when I did. Of course, the narrowing of the barrel might have been simply a beneficial side effect to the company. Pens do not seem to have industry standard architecture.

Possible, but as said, why use an expensive insert when just reducing the bore of the plastic or a cheap plastic insert would suffice..

 

D.ick

[TwelveDrawings]

So, you don't think the brass tube is a spacer to force the use of a proprietary converter or cartridge? You think it's just in there to satisfy your criterion that it must be there, presumably to add gravitas?

Pajaro, you raise a subject that has interested me. Why does Phileas contain a BRASS tube? A plastic one could have done the job if Waterman simply wanted to force their users to buy proprietary ink cartridges. But as Jon has pointed out, brass ain't cheap. The brass insert is impressive to look at, and it does give the Phileas a good balance. But it wasn't the most economical metal that could've been used.

 

Why not use lead? It costs considerably less and is easily cast to precise dimensions (bullets are cast within 1/100th of an inch). Held firmly in place with the right adhesive, few would have noticed or even cared what the weight was made of. I have seen lead used for nearly the same purpose before. As a draftsman, we used high quality drafting pens and gadgets. When one broke open we discovered that the manufacturer had economized by replacing steel parts with aluminum and "hid their tracks" by inserting a lead weight.

 

One might say Waterman wanted to use only the best materials. But those who read these threads know that Phileas originally sold for about $20 USD. It was an economy model compared with finer fountain pens. Why would Waterman add even a penny or two more when the lead could have served the same purpose?

 

Another question open to speculation and opinion. But since no Waterman engineer that I know of ever posts on these threads, then speculation and opinion are a staple of our intellectual diet here. —TwelveDrawings

Edited March 25, 2014 by TwelveDrawings

[TwelveDrawings]

Jon, you have used a number of other pens. Is it common practice for other fountain pens to include a weight like this? -- TD

[JonSzanto]

TD, I can't honestly answer the question directly: I'm not sure I know of other pens that, specifically, have some internal part added simply for weight.

 

I'd look at it another way: pens fabricated out of inexpensive materials, coupled with a light weight, frequently broadcast Cheap! Waterman, in their own line at the time, included pens like the Laureat (don't quote me on exact dates), which had brass bodies with enameled outer surfaces. Certainly this is more expensive to make, and they aren't going to make an entry level pen out of those materials and finishes. However, the Phileas still stands as an intriguing design, in that it gives the impression of being a more expensive pen than it actually is. Part of that impression, surely, is the weight-in-hand of the pen. In spite of mass-produced plastic barrels and caps, with screened-on duplicate markings, the addition of that weight inside lends a lot more substance to the pen. Indeed, the weight and girth of the pen allow it to be comfortable for long periods of writing, furthering the experience for the owner.

 

I can't remember the pen right now - is it Pilot? Sailor? other? - that has a movable weight to adjust balance. I'm certain, given innovation, that over the years there have been pen companies large and small that have done things like this.

 

Overall, I think it is just adding to the impression of quality in a pen. I think the pen of the current day that, to me, comes closest to this is the Pilot Metropolitan. From fit and finish to execution in working, and a handsome but non-glitzy styling, this pen plays well above it's price point. Just as the Phileas did.

Edited March 25, 2014 by JonSzanto

[TwelveDrawings]

TD, I can't honestly answer the question directly: I'm not sure I know of other pens that, specifically, have some internal part added simply for weight.

 

I'd look at it another way: pens fabricated out of inexpensive materials, coupled with a light weight, frequently broadcast Cheap! Waterman, in their own line at the time, included pens like the Laureat (don't quote me on exact dates), which had brass bodies with enameled outer surfaces. Certainly this is more expensive to make, and they aren't going to make an entry level pen out of those materials and finishes. However, the Phileas still stands as an intriguing design, in that it gives the impression of being a more expensive pen than it actually is. Part of that impression, surely, is the weight-in-hand of the pen. In spite of mass-produced plastic barrels and caps, with screened-on duplicate markings, the addition of that weight inside lends a lot more substance to the pen. Indeed, the weight and girth of the pen allow it to be comfortable for long periods of writing, furthering the experience for the owner.

 

I can't remember the pen right now - is it Pilot? Sailor? other? - that has a movable weight to adjust balance. I'm certain, given innovation, that over the years there have been pen companies large and small that have done things like this.

 

Overall, I think it is just adding to the impression of quality in a pen. I think the pen of the current day that, to me, comes closest to this is the Pilot Metropolitan. From fit and finish to execution in working, and a handsome but non-glitzy styling, this pen plays well above it's price point. Just as the Phileas did.

Movable weight? Now that's high-performance! -- TD

[JonSzanto]

Movable weight? Now that's high-performance! -- TD

 

Gah! This was going to drive me nuts until I found it, so... I did. Adjustable in the amount of the weight: the Nakaya Equilibrium pens (not, BTW, entry level pens!) Good info on this from the fabulous John Mottishaw at nibs.com.

[TwelveDrawings]

 

Gah! This was going to drive me nuts until I found it, so... I did. Adjustable in the amount of the weight: the Nakaya Equilibrium pens (not, BTW, entry level pens!) Good info on this from the fabulous John Mottishaw at nibs.com.

Whoa, Toto. We're not in Phileas any more! That's an awesome touch! -- TD

[RMN]

Several other brands use brass liners. I know for certain about Conway Stewart, and Onoto offers the possibility to add one or two brass sleeves for weight customisation.

And I think, but am not sure Stipula also uses a brass liner on some models.

 

I think lead will not do because of the toxicity, people putting pens in their mouth....

 

 

D.ick

[Left FPN]

Let's hope they did not use, CW614N or CW609N which are designed for high speed machining and both contain Pb.