Fact Or Fiction? Why Did Waterman Stop Making Phileas?

[TwelveDrawings]

Why did Waterman stop making and selling Phileas pens? The pens are handsome and write surprisingly well. Many people report buying new ones less than 10 years ago for about $20.00 US. Waterman was apparently earning a profit at that price or they could not have sold them.

 

So, why DID Waterman stop making them? I'm not asking for conjecture here, since that could go on forever. I am respectfully asking if anyone actually knows the real reason.

 

I have heard this from a fairly plausible source. THE SOURCE: A Staples store employee who informed me I could not replace my broken Phileas because Waterman no longer made them. (That painful moment is seared into my memory, but I won't digress).

 

Here is the explanation he offered: "All school children in France were once required to use fountain pens in class. However, that practice was recently discontinued. Faced with the loss of so many guaranteed buyers, Waterman could no longer make money from the relatively few people who still buy and use economy-priced fountain pens."

 

The empty Staples shelves confirmed that my chance to purchase a brand new Phileas pen in-store had passed. In desperation, I asked the employee to go into the back room just to make sure there wasn't an unsold stash. He looked at me with pity and said my only hope was to check eBay. Online, I found "new old stock" pens selling for three figures.

 

I see the colorful new Kulturs selling for increasingly high prices. They certainly look "young" compared to the dense colors and gold-accents of the Art Deco Phileas. But I can't believe the Phileas costs THAT much more to produce and sell. The resale market for them seems to be brisk.

 

So I invite you to share any facts you have concerning Waterman's decision to axe the Phileas.

 

Respectfully — TwelveDrawings.com

Edited March 4, 2014 by TwelveDrawings

[Guillermo]

The Staples employee makes good points, and I found this blogger that confirms it: http://maratinage.wordpress.com/2012/08/15/les-plumes-et-la-perfection-fountain-pens-and-perfection/

It makes sense, to me at least, that Waterman pull the plug on the production line and concentrated a bit more efforts and resources on the high-end segment.

I'm fortunate to say that I have a Waterman Kultur in "Translucent Crystal" (AKA: Clear Demo), with a beautifully wet M nib. Got it under $30, including shipment, it was brand new and it carried a Waterman Converter. I guess I'm lucky to find this pen at this price, since Kulturs are around that price without converter (and the clear Demo is even harder to find, so I've seen...).

 

Indeed, the Phileas is hard to obtain as NOS under $90... I didn't know it was a relatively cheap pen ($20 is right in the middle of my price range) since I'm kinda new in this FP world. I'm pleased with my Kultur, but I keep seeing the Phileas... It's luring me...

 

I'll be following this discussion, since I find intriguing how such a pen, that a lot of FP users here considered as THE most recommendable first FP, just disappeared...

[JonSzanto]

I was still getting Phileas for around $20 four years ago when I started on the forum. Times change.

 

We also have to be careful: Guillermo says a blogger "confirms it", but the "it" that is confirmed is regarding French children no longer using fountain pens. They say nothing about a particular pen, and nothing, therefore, about the fate of the Phileas. (also, the link needs to be fixed).

 

We'll need a little bit better sourcing than a random store employee relating something they heard. It must have obviously been economics, but might be interesting to find some hard info from the company or related sales reps, etc.

Edited March 4, 2014 by JonSzanto

[RMN]

I remember there were topics here on the forum a few years back about Sanford positioning their various brands so not to compete with each other. Parker was to become the entry level pen, while Waterman the more posh pen that had to compete with the likes of Montblanc.

And at that time several lines of pens in both brands were terminated.

 

So, it is likely, but still conjecture as no official from Sanford will corroborate this, that the Phileas suffered in this process.

 

D.ick

Edited March 4, 2014 by RMN

[pajaro]

I don't think you are going to find the real reason. It is probably Newell Rubbermaid marketing strategies and policies, and secret.

[esteroids]

Waterman got out of the business of school pens. No Phileas, Kultur, Graduate, Allure. I have no actual knowledge of the motives, but I would think that there just isn't enough margin in these products for them to continue in a shrinking market. Or compete with Hero and Kaigelu.

[pajaro]

So for all those pens there is shrinking availability, except as used pens maybe.

[Jerome Tarshis]

I guess Germans don't know anything about business: Pelikan is still making the Pelikano, Lamy is still making the abc and the Safari, Schneider still has the Base and possibly other inexpensive pens, Faber-Castell does moderately priced pens, I could add to this little list of pens for young people, also commended by adult FPN members.

 

I'm with Pajaro: we don't know and we aren't likely ever to know why Waterman stopped making the Phileas when it did. As for Parker's being relegated to entry-level pens, on both sides of the Atlantic they're doing fine with the Duofolds and in China, arguably their crucial market, they're selling luxury pens that would make your head spin. I suspect that there's been some back-and-forth thinking at Sanford.

[amk]

But Waterman has *not* stopped making the Kultur. They've stopped admitting to it on their website, but when I go into the local supermarket here in France, I find a rack of Kultur in different colours and finishes, as well as a number of other Waterman school pens. (I am sure Carrefour isn't selling NOS!) They may, of course, have different policies for different territories. I can't answer for the Phileas, which I'm not sure was ever sold in Europe (others may know this better than me).

 

Waterman had already stopped including its lower tier pens in its catalogues in the 1980s, I think. A real nuisance for us collectors as witness the many FPN posts about Graduates, Forums, Kulturs/Phileases.

[RMN]

But Waterman has *not* stopped making the Kultur. They've stopped admitting to it on their website, but when I go into the local supermarket here in France, I find a rack of Kultur in different colours and finishes, as well as a number of other Waterman school pens. (I am sure Carrefour isn't selling NOS!) They may, of course, have different policies for different territories. I can't answer for the Phileas, which I'm not sure was ever sold in Europe (others may know this better than me).

 

Waterman had already stopped including its lower tier pens in its catalogues in the 1980s, I think. A real nuisance for us collectors as witness the many FPN posts about Graduates, Forums, Kulturs/Phileases.

Yes, I have noticed penmakers not put everything on their website.

 

It seems Cross makes a pen called the Coventry, and I heard about a Cross Calais. These were sold at Staples, I believe, but not mentioned on their website.

 

The reason the German firms are still making school pens, is that German schools still prescribe fountainpens for their pupils, and I believe in the Netherlands they also first start with fountainpens, as a youth recently told me.

 

 

D.ick

[pajaro]

I would say that my Cross Coventry with a fine nib is as good as my Phileas with a fine nib. Both are excellent pens.

[amk]

Just found these cheap ones on a belgian site: http://www.lalphabet.papershop.be/view.asp?ID=W19253&L=fr&M=0&D=EUR&Scroll=3&F=*&C=*

 

"Agora" is Greek for "forum"... was the product manager a classicist having a bit of fun?

[RMN]

Just found these cheap ones on a belgian site: http://www.lalphabet.papershop.be/view.asp?ID=W19253&L=fr&M=0&D=EUR&Scroll=3&F=*&C=*

 

"Agora" is Greek for "forum"... was the product manager a classicist having a bit of fun?

Well, they already had the pen: Waterman Forum So Waterman Agora seems OK

 

Forum was in Latin a sort of square in the town used for gatherings and discussions.

The Greek Agora has about the same meaning, a square, perhaps also a market.

 

I sort of like these pens visually. They are ridiculously cheap.

 

 

D.ick

[esteroids]

They are about the same size as a Man 2; the early ones had the same feed as the Man 2. They always had the same feed and nib as the contemporary Laureat. I like them a lot.

 

A number of years ago, after accumulating a bunch, I thought I might try to collect all of the colors. I soon realized I couldn't afford it. Besides having to buy all of the pens I would have had to double the size of my house. I still find colors I'd never seen. I would bet that no one, not even anyone at the factory, knows how many different color combinations were produced.

[Runnin_Ute]

My first Phileas I bought around the late 1990's. Red marbled with fine nib. Recently disappeared on me. I miss it, much nicer than the black medium I still have. Bought from a member in the classifieds for under $50 in December 2012 new in box. Not sure if NOS is right, but had all original paperwork and converter and cartridge. (don't recall if he said it had ever been inked or not)

[pajaro]

Too bad the price is going up. The Phileas I have resists drying out and restarts easily if it does. A lot of other modern pens need a flush if that happens.

[TwelveDrawings]

There are a variety of popular products that are no longer made. In the United States, a rustic national chain of stores called Cracker Barrel has found a niche selling old time candies and other products that most adults have not seen since childhood. As long as Waterman holds onto their factory tooling for the Phileas, we can never rule out the possibility of their eventual return....perhaps as a commemorative pen.

 

Not to correct myself, but didn't Waterman already try to revive the Phileas pen by branding it with Harley Davidson insignia? If true, it seems like a jarring juxtaposition. Probably a sign that Waterman was running out of ways to market the Art Deco pen.

[pajaro]

Weren't these good sellers? I thought they were, but I admit I didn't buy Waterman in general, being besotted by Parker and MB. Sonnet put an end to that.

[esteroids]

The Harley Freewheel series is a Kultur

[TwelveDrawings]

The Harley Freewheel series is a Kultur

Considering how much a Harley costs, I think Waterman could've taken a chance and afixed the name on a special edition Phileas. Heck, a Harley cupholder alone can cost $40-50.