Help: Lamy Z24 Converter Is Always Very Bubbly!

[Biology]

I bought a Lamy Joy recently, as a desk letter pen. It is a lovely pen, really just a design change from the Safari, Al Star, Vista and all those. But for some reason the converter always has a great deal of little bubbles all throughout it. It writes fine and after a little ink has been used and a few days all the bubbles are gone and it really is not a bother but I am afraid of two things; One that it may leak because something us wrong, and two that I am losing a lot of possible ink fill because of all the "inky froth". It is not a real functional bother but it is a slight concern. Anyone else have this issue? I have another Z24 in my Safari and it works just as it should. Only difference is in my Joy I am using Noodler's Bad Blue Heron (A very wonderful blue), and in my Safari I am using Noodler's Bulletproof Black. I could try to switch inks between the converters or change converters in the Joy to see if there is an intrinsic variable. Wanted to see if this is a common issue and if so we could put an answer out there in black and white for all. Good Luck!

[yogalarva]

I have this happen with the converter in my Safari. Doesn't seem to cause leaking at all, but like you said it could be reducing my overall ink capacity. But, at least for me it isn't causing a major problem.

[Anne-Sophie]

As you use it as a desk pen, does your Lamy Joy stay nib down, inside a desk pen holder most of the time?

[WirsPlm]

This can happen with all converters and pens, so I wouldn't worry too much (so long as the froth goes away). If you're really interested in a full fill, after filling turn the converter point up, squeeze the bubbles and air out out, put the point back into the ink and suck more in. But unless you're having trouble running out of ink a lot I wouldn't worry too much about it, it won't hut anything. The froth is just bubbles from the lubricating ingredients and surfactants (basically like dish soap bubbles, there's a few ingredients in common between dish soap and most ink), and it's just as harmless as dish soap bubbles.

[tinta]

I regularly fill my wife's Lamy Safari.

Yes, as with all converters, bubbles can be caught inside during filling. As has been said, this is quite normal. Some inks bubble more than others.

You may not be filling the converter with enough ink,... thus the air bubbles.

 

Here are ways to minimize this phenomenon:

 

-- start the filling process with your converter piston's plunger at the bottom

-- draw up ink as far as the plunger can go

-- with the nib in the ink, push the ink back into the bottle till the plunger stops. (Usually bubbles will form in the ink.)

-- draw ink up the converter again, as far as it can go. (The ink should be at a higher level in the converter tube.)

-- to get the most ink into the converter, you may want to do another or more filling cycle(s) again

-- with the nib out of the ink, express two drops of ink back into the bottle

-- cap the ink bottle (Ask me why I would suggest this.)

-- wipe the section & nib

-- point nib up to the ceiling & reverse the plunger as far as it'll go (Some ink should be pulled back into the pen's feed.)

-- wipe the section & nib again

-- you're good to go

 

BTW, the same steps can also be used to fill a piston-fill pen.

Edited February 18, 2014 by tinta

[Robert Alan]

Hello!

If a multitude of bubbles appear in a converter, something is wrong. Usually it is an issue with the particular converter and another converter, of the exact same brand, may fill differently. Ask yourself this: have you seen the same ‘bubbling’ in a dedicated piston-filled pen like a Pelikan or Montblanc? Probably not. That’s because they have an enclosed system that was manufactured to higher tolerances than most converters.

If the ink in a converter doesn’t move back and forth, freely, with one air bubble—like in a carpenter’s level—something is wrong with the converter (and, possibly, the pen’s feed) or the converter hasn’t been filled properly. Too much air in the converter throws off the required balance between air and ink. Poorly manufactured converters allow extra air to leak into the ink reservoir—or ink to leak behind the piston. None of this occurs in a properly manufactured dedicated piston-filled fountain pen.

 

A few manufacturers, like Montblanc, Montegrappa, and Pilot, have attempted to make up for the vagaries of converter construction and the inherent problems—like the bubbling described in this post—by producing threaded converters with a small weight inside the converter’s reservoir. The threading usually guarantees a snug fit to the feed nipple, and the weight forces ink down towards the feed nipple when the pen is in the writing position. It also will force any bubbles together into one bubble, allowing the ink to rock back and forth freely---the way it’s supposed to.

 

Most fountain pen manufacturers recommend bleeding out a few drops of ink, after filling, and wicking off excess ink from the feed to clear the air channel (hold a tissue to the feed for about three seconds). After proper filling, if the ink in the converter doesn’t rock back and forth, freely, like in the aforementioned carpenter’s level---I believe it indicates a problem with the piston converter. The bubbling issue usually doesn’t occur with an aerometric converter because extra air doesn’t leak into it. A cheaper Pilot CON-20 aeromertric converter had a major advantage over the older, more-expensive Pilot CON-50 piston converter design that did not contain the cylindrical weight.

 

BTW, ink should not froth up during filling, and, if it does, too much air has mixed with it. Some inks, like Pelikan’s Edelstein series of inks, do contain a chemical agent that will ‘froth,’ but one may only notice that when cleaning a pen and expelling ink into a sink, while rinsing with a stream of water.

 

Regards, Robert

[tinta]

That one bubble, a la carpenter's level is the ideal when filling a converter. I can usually achieve this with the Schmidt K2 converters. Some inks (I cannot now remember which ones) tend to stick to the walls of my Sailor converters. This may be due to the chemical composition of the ink & of the plastic tube of the converter.

[rwilsonedn]

Does this converter, like the one in the Safari, bayonet lock into the section, rather than just pushing into a friction fit? If so, and if you haven't pushed and twisted, you may be drawing air in around the bottom of the converter.

ron

[akmac]

Ron, the Z24 is precisely the Safari converter you're writing about. The Joy does have these detents in the section, just like a regular Safari. You don't need to twist anything to attach the converter, though. Just push it in far enough that the lugs click in place.

 

To the original poster: ink formulation may very well be the deciding factor here, think how water mixed with soap or dishwashing detergent foams much easier (because of its lowered surface tension); any ink with a high amount of surfactants added to improve its flow will exhibit a similar behaviour. If I'm not mistaken, most Noodler's inks do indeed fall into this group (to compensate for their high saturation). If the converter were not properly seated in the section, or leaking for any other reason, you'd probably be unable to get any ink in it, or only a very small amount.