Tightening A Converter To A Nipple

[Inkling13]

Let's see if including this photo works:

 

http://www.benoitstpierre.info/img/aurora-nipple.jpg

 

As you can see, the section does not cover the nipple, so it's possible to use tweezers to put Teflon around it.

 

Also note that the section's barrel "walls" cannot tighten the converter as it could in the case of my friend's generic Parker.

 

Hope the photo is not too big.

I have a "theory" on why your converter has a loose fit. It's the same concept why the Pelikan Pelikano/Pelikan Pelikano Jr./Pilot Kakuno don't fit their respective converters well. It's because they are all designed to pierce their cartridges, and thus in that action, form a tight seal. In the same vein, the bodys of the pens are made to accommodate a cartridge perfectly, so that by assembling the section and body around a cartridge, the body forces the cart onto the nipple, holding it in place. This pen, that you have, seems to follow that train of thought with a metal sleeve and a beveled edge just perfect for piercing carts. Try out a cartridge in this pen, and tell me if it's any better of a fit. It may be the case that the cartridge was what it was built for.

[willard]

Yes, Inkling13, my Aurora's nib likes its cartridge, as the former is responsible for the hole in the latter. I expect the hole to expand a bit over time, after which I will have to replace it. Now that I know that Parker cartridges are similar, I am less worried than when I started this discussion.

 

I'll keep filling up my cartridge using a syringe. For some bottles, like the Aurora blue, it's almost mandatory.

 

***

 

> I have a "theory" on why your converter has a loose fit. It's the same concept why the Pelikan Pelikano/Pelikan Pelikano Jr./Pilot Kakuno don't fit their respective converters well.

 

I like your theory. I wonder if your theory applies to many more pen models. From my experiment with my friend's Parker, it is quite clear that my Aurora's section is not made to embrace a converter as well as his Parker vector:

 

http://www.amazon.fr/Parker-Vector-Taille-Attribut-chrom%C3%A9/dp/B004FMRY12

 

***

 

Come to think of it, I wonder why not all converters are not screw in.

Edited January 20, 2014 by willard

[brgphilly]

What about pen repair shellac or section seal? Hypothetically, I would hold the pen vertically until it dries nib up, and apply sparingly. Haven't done this, but I wonder....

[willard]

Good questions, brgphilly:

 

> What about pen repair shellac or section seal?

 

Being an empirical guy, I'd like to test shellac, but don't have any. Is it possible to buy this in an ordinary hardware store? My hypothesis would be that this may not work, as the space between the nipple and the converter would make the adhesion rest solely on the contact between the mouth of the converter and the bottom of the section. Is having shellac handy for other usages?

 

I don't know what a section seal is.

Edited January 20, 2014 by willard

[SteveE]

I have a "theory" on why your converter has a loose fit. It's the same concept why the Pelikan Pelikano/Pelikan Pelikano Jr./Pilot Kakuno don't fit their respective converters well. It's because they are all designed to pierce their cartridges, and thus in that action, form a tight seal. In the same vein, the bodys of the pens are made to accommodate a cartridge perfectly, so that by assembling the section and body around a cartridge, the body forces the cart onto the nipple, holding it in place. This pen, that you have, seems to follow that train of thought with a metal sleeve and a beveled edge just perfect for piercing carts. Try out a cartridge in this pen, and tell me if it's any better of a fit. It may be the case that the cartridge was what it was built for.

 

Sorry, but I cannot agree with this statement. If this was true, no pen would accept both cartridges and converters. In reality, almost all (all?) cartridge pens can use the proper and appropriate converter, unless they are designed specifically not to. Some smaller pens are specifically designed to use only short international cartridges, and these pens do not have enough room inside their barrels to fit a converter. No cartrudge pen that I have ever seen has a feed nipple that is designed to not accommodate its corresponding converter.

 

My guess is that either you have not yet run across the proper converter, or the feed nipple of your pen is damaged in some way. Some cartridge pen feeds have not only their own small nipple, but have in their collar assemblies a thicker nipple into which the feed tip fits. If your pen was originally one of these "feed nipple within feed collar nipple" pens, and if the larger feed nipple collar has been broken or cut off, then you might have a situation in which the feed nipple remaining could pierce a cartridge (albeit with a smaller than normal opening) but would be a loose fit into a converter. To know if this is the case, you would have to dis-assemble the feed from its collar in your pen and in another known-good pen of the same type, then compare dimensions.

[willard]

> My guess is that either you have not yet run across the proper converter, or the feed nipple of your pen is damaged in some way.

 

That might very well be the case, SteveE, but we should also take into account at least two other possibilities: a fabrication glitch on either the converter or the nipple, or a misunderstanding on the way the converter should be installed.

 

This latter possibility has been inspired by this how to install an international converter on the Pelikano:

 

Sometimes it[the converter]'s a little loose, but it fits on [the Pelikano] there.

 

 

http://www.gouletpens.com/Articles.asp?ID=311

 

As Brian Goulet shows at around 1:20, it seems that the Pelikano needs to be installed in a way that the body of the pen ratchets in the converter.

 

As far as my Aurora is concerned, there is no such functionality.

[framebaer]

I can add the following to this conversation.

1) Converters need to screw on or most commonly press fit.

 

2) I have 9 different distinct C/C's in my repair / nib tuning kit. There are that many variations at least.

 

3) you can use any CC that fits your pen, doesn't have to be the same brand.

 

4) In my experience the Schmidt K-5( mentioned above by someone) fits a huge variety of pens and is easily obtainable.

 

5) Don't put anything between your CC and the nipple, bad idea no matter silicone, teflon, super glue etc. As the Calvin Kline ad years ago said, "there's nothing between me and my jeans"

 

6) Converters wear out. We had a steady stream of pen repair problems solved by a new CC when I worked at Richards. I still have a steady stream with my repair work.

[wastelanded]

Good questions, brgphilly:

 

> What about pen repair shellac or section seal?

 

Being an empirical guy, I'd like to test shellac, but don't have any. Is it possible to buy this in an ordinary hardware store? My hypothesis would be that this may not work, as the space between the nipple and the converter would make the adhesion rest solely on the contact between the mouth of the converter and the bottom of the section. Is having shellac handy for other usages?

 

I don't know what a section seal is.

 

I have a Kaweco Sport with bulb adapter that was leaking around the connection. I shellaced it in, and it's not leaking any more. A hot water rinse would loosen it if I ever have to remove it. Just be sure to apply the shellac only to the sides of the converter or you could clog things up.

 

Zinsser's shellac is available at your local big-box hardware store, about $10 a pint. That is enough for 20 people to repair pens for the rest of their lives. I bought a tin, extracted an ink sample vial full with a straw, and returned it. Naughty, I know, but the tin would just sit there forever and go off eventually.

 

It's available in clear and amber. The amber is more traditional, but clear looks neater.

[willard]

Noted, wasteland:

 

> Just be sure to apply the shellac only to the sides of the converter or you could clog things up.

 

This might explain why people frown upon fixing cracked converters with shellac.

 

***

 

Thank you for your answer, framebaer! I have a question about this:

 

> Don't put anything between your CC and the nipple

 

Perhaps I don't get it because I don't wear CK's, but may I ask why?

[wastelanded]

I would never bother mending a cracked converter. Even good ones like Schmidt are cheap as chips in bulk on eBay.

[framebaer]

As Wastelanded replied above me,

 

Converters are cheap enough and were never designed to have any substance used to hold them on.

 

The chance of getting silicone,shellac, rosin or any other fix into the ink flow area is great and may cause flow problems that are difficult to ameliorate.

[willard]

I agree, framebaer: stuff like shellac, silicon or resin may mix with ink. Can you confirm this based on some of the mistakes from clients you had?

 

Also, what about teflon? I understand that a bit of it could detach, but then I asked my plumber and he doubted that well-cut teflon could erode. Sorry if I sound like I'm trying to push this peanut too far, but as a technical writer, I wish to make the most precise wrap-up I can.

 

Finally, I don't think Schmidt's K5s (thank for the tip about them, BTW!) could fit my Aurora. As a pen repairman, have you ever encountered pens to which no converter could be tucked?

 

Many thanks!

[wastelanded]

As Wastelanded replied above me,

 

Converters are cheap enough and were never designed to have any substance used to hold them on.

 

The chance of getting silicone,shellac, rosin or any other fix into the ink flow area is great and may cause flow problems that are difficult to ameliorate.

 

Very true. I wanted to give it a try, and the pen I used was easily and cheaply replaceable. I figured if I got shellac somewhere it shouldn't be, I could heat and scrape it out easily enough. The experiment was a success though, still no leaking and flow as it should be. I used a very fine brush to apply the shellac.

 

Also, I was using a cartridge cut down with a sac on it. The Sport won't take a regular converter, and the one sold for it is entirely useless.

[framebaer]

I have no problem with people experimenting with their cheap pens.

 

My point of view is strictly from the perspective of repairing other folks mostly vintage pens.

Many of which are family heirlooms and that sort of thing.

 

Obviously I am not going to "muck about" with possibly determental repairs to such pens.

 

Note that I replace a steady stream of CC's on clients pens as many are worn out. I use correct replacements whenever possible and occasional generics ( K-5s come to mind) as necessary.

[ac12]

As a pen repairman, have you ever encountered pens to which no converter could be tucked?

 

Waterman CF

They do not make the CF ink cartridges nor converters any more.

Unless you can find old stock or used cartridges, you are out of luck, and your CF is now a dip pen.

I have not found a reliable replacement for the CF cartridge or converter yet.

Cross Spire and Classic Century

These Cross fountain pens use the SLIM Cross cartridge.

There is no converter for these pens by Cross or anyone else. And there are a bunch of guys on the Cross sub-forum that are looking.

Ohto Tashe

It uses a short international cartridge.

But the cartridge is mostly inside the section. The back of the cartridge sticks out maybe 1/4 inch, just enough to grab onto, to pull out the old cartridge. And the barrel is short, so there isn't any more room.

Sheaffer School pen.

Sheaffer Imperial desk pen (only some of them).

The barrel is sized for the Sheaffer cartridge. My screw converter is WAY too long to fit, and the Sheaffer squeeze converter is 1/4" longer than the cartridge, and thus too long to fit.

Edited January 23, 2014 by ac12

[fpconverted]

Hello,

 

I have a beautiful Aurora International 98. I used to refill it using an used Aurora cartridge. It works, but I'm not sure I would offer a gift with a syringe, or even sell it. By some serendipity, my local fountain pen shop had an Aurora converter that is supposed to work for this model.

 

I tried it, and it seemed to work. But as soon as I tried to fill the pen up, it became obvious that the converter was a bit looser than with the cartridge. In fact, the section fell into the ink pot.

 

On the second try, I could make it suck ink. It worked for a while, but it became obvious that the ink was leaking from where the converter made contact with the nipple. So I flushed the pen and the converter, disassembling the converter to make sure it was OK.

 

So here is my question: would it be possible to put a bit of silicon grease to "seal" the converter around the nipple?

 

I know that 13$ is not a big deal, but my first motivation to dive into the universe of fountain pens was to stop wasting plastic and start taking care of my stuff. I am willing to try about any solution, as long as someone, somewhere, is willing to help me out by sharing his or her experience. Sorry if my question has already been answered before, but I did try to scratch my own itch, but could not find anything after an hour of search and reading previous thread.

 

Thanks,

 

w

[fpconverted]

Hello,

 

I have a beautiful Aurora International 98. I used to refill it using an used Aurora cartridge. It works, but I'm not sure I would offer a gift with a syringe, or even sell it. By some serendipity, my local fountain pen shop had an Aurora converter that is supposed to work for this model.

 

I tried it, and it seemed to work. But as soon as I tried to fill the pen up, it became obvious that the converter was a bit looser than with the cartridge. In fact, the section fell into the ink pot.

 

On the second try, I could make it suck ink. It worked for a while, but it became obvious that the ink was leaking from where the converter made contact with the nipple. So I flushed the pen and the converter, disassembling the converter to make sure it was OK.

 

So here is my question: would it be possible to put a bit of silicon grease to "seal" the converter around the nipple?

 

I know that 13$ is not a big deal, but my first motivation to dive into the universe of fountain pens was to stop wasting plastic and start taking care of my stuff. I am willing to try about any solution, as long as someone, somewhere, is willing to help me out by sharing his or her experience. Sorry if my question has already been answered before, but I did try to scratch my own itch, but could not find anything after an hour of search and reading previous thread.

 

Thanks,

 

w

What I usually do use in your case is plumbers tape. It's to tighten screw type plumbing attachments to make fine threads leak proof. Wear magnifying glasses and a sharp zante knife In a 3x5mm tape and wrap that around the nipped, you should have adequate girth for the convertor to seal properly as long as the tape goes around the nipped 1 1/2 times your good to go.

[willard]

Hello again,

 

Sorry for the delay. I think it's time to bring the thread to a wrap-up. So here are the results so far:

 

1. fpconverted and OiRogers report that it might be possible to use Teflon tape to tuck in the nib on the nipple.

 

2. That said, we should bear in mind the possibility mentioned by tinta and ac12 that a bit of Teflon could enter the feed channel.

 

3. siroast also suggested to heat up the converter enough to use pliers to close in the converter's mouth.

 

4. Beware that these solutions are artisanal and not recommended by repairers like framebaer!

 

5. The safest bet should be to try all kinds of converters to see if there's not one that could fit.

 

6. The lazyiest choice, the one I will choose for now, is to keep using cartridges (Aurora, Parker International, even Lamy's work) which one can fill with a syringe, taking consolation in the karmic issues (cf. ac12's list above) some pens have with converters.

 

Thank you everyone for this interesting discussion!

Edited February 1, 2014 by willard

[jaxxon]

Ah yes, the Sheaffer Taranis. Bought one new two months ago and faced the same problem. Fill the converter, write a half page or so, no ink. Squeeze the converter, write a half page or so and dry again. The sequence just continually repeated itself to the point of utter frustration. Packed it up and sent it back to Sheaffer Warranty Service in Fort Madison. Don't know what they did and i do not even care what they did, and all I know is that the pen writes jiust fine and continuous until the converter need refilling.