Nakaya Or Howto Waste Time & Money

[proton007]

  On 1/2/2014 at 1:35 PM, plumista said:

One thing I forgot to mention in my first post (#3):

 

None of the pens I talk about was bought from any USA retailer nor USA seller.

Four of my Nakayas were bought directly from the Japanese maker via its website.

The fifth (and last) was bought via La Couronne du Comte (Netherlands).

 

ALL have had different issues, none arrived neither in perfect writing nor aesthetic condition. An oddisey began... at times almost an ordeal...

 

I keep my opinion: this brand is, from my point of view, unfortunately not worth, not recommended.

 

**************************************

 

Se me había olvidado mencionar en mi primera colaboración (#3) que no he comprado ninguna de mis Nakaya a ningún vendedor ni distribuidor de los Estados Unidos de América.

 

Cuatro las compré a través de la propia página web de Nakaya.

La quinta (y última) a través de La Couronne du Comte (Holanda).

 

TODAS presentaron diferentes clases de problemas, ninguna llegó en perfecto estado ni de escritura ni de terminación. Empezó una odisea... a veces casi una ordalía...

 

Mantengo mi opinión: esta marca , desde mi punto de vista, no vale la pena, no la recomiendo.

I think because Nakaya doesn't mass produce, its possible they don't have a lot of spares. Maybe thats why they are hesitant with replacements?

[Namo]

  On 1/2/2014 at 1:13 PM, franzrogar said:

@Namo,

 

Of course I'm making an universal truth from my single experience, because it's *my* truth.

 

<Oh, my... So everything you say is true because you say it. Mmmh... I am pretty sure life will teach you otherwise on the end.>

 

So, please, paraphrasing your sentence, don't make an universal truth that Nakaya is perfect either.

 

<Read what I said: never that Nakaya are perfect. Only one should show some respect for the people behind the work.>

 

Think this thread as part of a tripadvisor if that ease your mind.

 

<It's always informative to hear such a story. It helps reducing pen fantasms. But why such a fuss?>

 

I'm surprised too that people have to knee on the floor when they got cheated because the company they paid for a service don't do their work properly. That's what happens when you're no longer a "customer" and begin to convert yourself into a "payer" (see Apple fanboys).

 

<Once again, read what I said. Zero mistake does not exist. Acknowledging this is far from been a fanboy...>

 

Also, I've never complain that Nakaya was expensive, ever.

 

<Really? So why talk so much about the price you paid? Would you be so, so angry of the pen was a 30$ Safari? Let's face it: price does matter here!>

 

<This been said, I hope Nakaya will do something, they indeed do own you some kind of apology. Regarding the language matter, the more I read this thread, the more I think they do have a point in wanting to minimalize communication misunderstandings...>

 

<I wish you a better 2014 pen year!>

 

Edited January 2, 2014 by Namo

[franzrogar]

@Namo, I recall over and over again the price because if you buy a 30$ *bulk* TV, you expect it to have faults [scratches, decoloration, etc], not last long, etc. When you buy a 1200$ *handmade* TV you expect, at least, to have all the painting and, if so, all parts in the same color.

 

For the rest of your reply (please, try to edit the quotation as it's quite hard to read it properly), I think I've answered to all your sentences ad nauseam (I love that Latin expresion, it's so... graphical) in this thread.

 

Also, I wish you a good 2014 pen year too :-)

[Namo]

  On 1/2/2014 at 2:18 PM, franzrogar said:

@

 

For the rest of your reply (please, try to edit the quotation as it's quite hard to read it properly), I think I've answered to all your sentences ad nauseam

 

<If you say so, then it must be true>

 

[franzrogar]

Of course, because I know what I, myself, think and how, it is true.

 

Sincerely, if you're so eager to know the truth, please, ask the US retailer permision to publish the e-mail between them and me and I have no problem to make a Nakayaleaks: order, e-mails (even from their japanese representative), payments, Customs declarations, Tax Agency memos, etc.

[kazoolaw]

You have had a horrible experience, for which you have my sympathy.

 

Unfortunately, or fortunately, this thread captures many stereotypical responses on any number of issues, with any number of pen brands.

 

Nakaya Achieved cult status, as other pens have in the past., For example, Danitrio, Visconti HS, TWSBI, etc. Each of these pens became extremely popular. Each of these pens have blizzards of posts extolling their virtues. a realist understands that no pen could be as perfect as all of us fans believe them to be. Yet we buy in, and join the cult.

 

In the cold, clear light of morning we realize that no pen is as glorious as X is represented to be. So, when problems arise, and mistakes occur, We tend to react more personally.

 

There should be a number of warning signs, of potential pitfalls, with the Nakaya brand. First, there is the language barrier. I am not a native Japanese speaker, nor is Nakaya a native English speaking company. I would be very careful with complex ideas being translated accurately across the language barrier. I cannot imagine how difficult, and frustrating it has been to have a three language Conversation.

 

Second, there is the whole concept of "flexible", a minefield even if it is discussed only in a single language. Are you talking "vintage" flexible, or "modern" flexible? And even if we agree on the era, there are the purists who understand flexible in the sense of dip pen nibs, And there are those for whom a nib with the smallest amount of "give" is flexible. My Conklin Crescent 50 nib is "flexible", and a modern Omas Is soft, but I would have a very difficult time explaining the difference in another language.

 

Finally, we tend to make our decisions based upon anecdotal evidence. In other words, in the first rush of popularity we think that pen X is perfect. What could go wrong? Follow the recent threads about quality control with TWSBI: Fans of the pen often talk in terms of how great customer service is, overlooking the number of quality control issues with barrel cracking, bad nibs, etc.

 

The original post is one story. And, if every customer had the Same or equally as bad experience, then Nakaya could very well go out of business. The truth, in the broader sense, Lies somewhere between the flush of fandom, and the Pen purchase gone wrong story in the original post.

 

I appreciate the story being shared. I am sorry For the original poster's experience, I hope that the financial issues are resolved, and perhaps even an apology issued. Just as I try to avoid drinking the Kool-Aid in the first place, I try to avoid joining a lynch mob At the other extreme.

 

Happy New Year.

 

gary

[franzrogar]

@gary,

I never went to Nakaya because its legend, because I wouldn't care less for any brand. I've never wore any brand cloth, not even shoes. In fact, I always says that to sellers: "if you want me to make you publicity for your brand, pay me to do so". I choosed Nakaya (I wrote it twice or thrice I don't remember) because they offered something no other did and I love: engravings.

FYI, all communication has been done in only one language: English. No other language has ever been used.

Also, I've stated many times, I own a Pelikan Richard Binder's 4XF full-flex (made at request) and it's "flexible" in the pure sense of the word. Also, Nakaya sells the nibs as "flexible" (OK, lets think that as a "translation" issue) but I ordered a modification to add flex, and still, the nib was slightly flex (almost stiff to my hand). And again, in the OP I didn't complain about the nib from Nakaya, that appeared later in the thread.

Again, I've never think a company to be perfect but I thought they have a QC and PR. At least, that's what I expect from any company in the world. More even when they sell handcrafted items and the items are not cheap.

No, I'm still fighting against Customs (waiting for an answer to my request of the big bunch) and still no word from Nakaya has entered my e-mail inbox.

Happy New Year too :-)

[raging.dragon]

  On 1/2/2014 at 8:18 AM, ukobke said:

I do not think the topic here is a soft or a flex nib of Nakaya.

 

To me after all was written from franz, there is only one question.

 

Should I risk and order order a pen of $500 .....(and no $ end) from Nakaya?

 

The answer to myself is NO !

 

I do not care if it is a good pen. I do not care if we yes, WE here in the fountain pen network have created such a myth. I do not care if this company (yes company by all means ) Nakaya have a good or bad service or whatever. They made a mess twice with a pen, and this is enough to me. If they were o.k they should give a priority and send to him the one Franz ordered.

 

The most I have the wish to get a good pen, the most is my disappointment if I do not. The worse thing is to happen the way it happened to Franz.

 

There are so many excellent people behind "good names" like people in nibs.com, Danitrio (Kevin I hope you are still there), and so many others to name. I do not know the reason why we have created such a myth with Nakaya.

 

I do own a second hand Nakaya, but my Danitrio is much better (to me). As a collector, I feel that I keep something more valuable with my black stripe MYU vs my Nakaya.

 

Also custom duties were paid for a frankenpen and this should be commented. Unfortunately, Franz is gonna have his trouble continued in the future, in order to really get his money back.

 

....and a question to all about flex or soft nibs. If one of you would buy a FLEXIBLE (as mentioned) pen from ebay, and finally this pen was SOFT, what would YOU do? Would you accept that the seller made a bad translation? Would you forgive him? NO, you would not, I am sure. Each one of you would report the seller and ask a full refund if he did not accept to do so.

 

In this case why some of you try to comment that there is a bad translation with Nakaya? Some of you have received a soft nib expecting to have received a flexible. In the end you thought should this worth a trouble of one year or more? (To give it back etc).

 

To my opinion, Nakaya does not worth all the trouble, even if the transaction was smooth.

 

I've read about QC and customer service failures from pretty much every brand. I can understand why franz, after such a negative experience, would want to avoid Nakaya; however, if one is going to avoid brands others have had negative experiences with, then one won't be buying any pens.

 

Kevin is no longer selling pens, except perhaps to clear any inventory he still has on hand, but several other dealers (I believe including Classic Fountain Pens) have started carrying Danitrio.

[raging.dragon]

My guess is that the language thing has to do with the details of Nakaya's agreements with their various dealers - it may, for example, be intended to establish different territories for each dealer and limit competition between them.

[JustinJ]

It is good that the OP started this thread. There should be more balance of opinions. I think many people may not want to tell their disappointment on the list due to fear of rebuttal or rejection. There was an actual a review of a similar Nakaya pen with the Chinkin(engraving). It is an unfavorable review of Nakaya from a regular contributor to the group.

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/203793-review-custom-nakaya-chinkin-palmet/

 

I can understand Franz initial disappointment as I'm sure all of you could. The language issue I can understand. The company can not hire translators for every language. English is a common language throughout many countries. I have bought a few things from Japan and do not understand the language . I do not expect them to speak English. Franz, I think this part of your arguement is irrelevant. The relevant issue is receiving an unsatisfactory pen for your money.

 

I enjoy the craftsmanship of my Nakaya pens. Are they perfect,no. Do I enjoy using them, yes. In the end, that is why I purchased them.

 

The following below is not directed at your Franz. I think it is a good principle to live by.

 

If you do not have the money, then do not spend it on unnecessary items. It is hard to enjoy something when it costs more money than you are comfortable with. I am not basing this on income. If you feel uneasy about spending a certain amount of money on a purchase, then don't do it. Some people would be just fine spending 500.00 or more on a bottle of wine. If I was to purchase this, it would not be an enjoyable experience. I enjoy wine but my upper limit is about 50.00 and usually around 15.00 - 20.00 for a bottle. If someone will just take the time to see what they would be comfortable with on a purchase, it could save a lot of stress and worrying. This hobby is supposed to be fun not a stress causer.

Edited January 2, 2014 by JustinJ

[Tadeusz]

I think the only option is to learn Japanese (er...Nihongo) and travel to Japan to give 'em a piece of your mind! It'll be fun...and only mildly costly and time consuming....

 

Kono pen ikura? <What is the price of that pen?

 

Kore wa pen desu! <thumbs up enthusiastically> That is a pen!

 

Nihongo Tabemasen= I don't speak Japanese

 

I've exhausted my Japanese skills, so I'll stop.

[franzrogar]

@raging.dragon, maybe you're right about establishing "territories" but that seems to collide with international laws of free commerce (I pointed it somewhere at the beginning of the thread). I'm not a lawer, it's my guess. But, again, why do forbit US retailer to sell non-English countries (they let them sell to UK) and to the EU seller can sell worldwide ('couse they don't have any warning in their website)?

@JustinJ, as I posted some message before yours, all communication was done in English: me -> US retailer, US retailer -> Nakaya. And I agree this issue is irrelevant (in fact it's not mentioned in the OP, it appeared later). The relevant issue is receiving *defective* pens twice more than *unsatisfactory* (because I loved the engravings if they were completely covered by lacquer [first defect] or they matched and not dissapeared [section an barrel were from different pens thus engravings didn't match at all]).

And I don't remember who but someone asked what this thread would have been if the pen would have come perfect. Then, as many others, it would be appraising the masterliness of the engravers.

@Tadeusz, :-D I love the "Nihongo Tabemasen" which I always translate as an automatic translator: "Japanese language I don't eat". Thanks for your tries.

Edited January 2, 2014 by franzrogar

[Tadeusz]

My pleasure!

As far as I know, it does in fact mean I don't eat Japanese language, so google is correct! (this time....<looks away wistfully>)

[raging.dragon]

  On 1/2/2014 at 9:36 PM, franzrogar said:

@raging.dragon, maybe you're right about establishing "territories" but that seems to collide with international laws of free commerce (I pointed it somewhere at the beginning of the thread). I'm not a lawer, it's my guess. But, again, why do forbit US retailer to sell non-English countries (they let them sell to UK) and to the EU seller can sell worldwide ('couse they don't have any warning in their website)?

 

[...]

 

It was just a guess. I don't know the details of Nakaya's deals with their dealers, nor am I an expert on international trade treaties (I know a bit, but couldn't make anything close to a difinitive statement on this issue).

[Poision Pen]

And still....all that comes to mind is

 

Wow!

[Poision Pen]

And still....all that comes to mind is

 

Wow!

 

Sorry, double post. Must be all the confusion.

Edited January 3, 2014 by Poision Pen

[Poision Pen]

But on a happier note, I just submitted my payment for my third Nakaya. I went for a "stock" item from the "US supplier" (scared to mention any names after all the above) because I did not want the 9 month wait that it is taking these days. Maybe that's because of the middle man situation because direct from Nakaya was never more than 4 months before. Or perhaps the popularity.

Neo Standard Aka-tamenuri but it will have a nib tweak by the very talented John M. Damn, he grinds fantastic nibs!

Should be here in a few weeks.

[Poision Pen]

Another thing just popped into my feeble brain.

 

It would REALLY be nice to know all three sides of this story before we all make our assumptions. To bad we never will.

[85AKbN]

  On 1/3/2014 at 2:41 AM, Poision Pen said:

Another thing just popped into my feeble brain.

 

It would REALLY be nice to know all three sides of this story before we all make our assumptions. To bad we never will.

 

the emperor has no clothes.

[shumanfu]

I find this thread quite amusing and the OP doesnt truly understand the brand of product they purchased from.

 

From what I understand Nakaya are a handful of retired Platinum Pen employees making hand made fountain pens in limited numbers.

 

Japanese business rarely deal with foreign customers, let alone individuals. There is a cultural reluctance to to talk to people in languages that is not Japanese, English is a tough order let alone Spanish or any other language. It's not blatant racism, it's just Japanese culture; if you cant work around it then the accidental abruptness will frustrated you to no end. It's just language and culture differences. Getting old Japanese people to respond to your emails in a foreign language is challenging, at least they responded; which is much more than what you would get if you lived here.

 

The timing, well they're a hand made item to order.. I'm sure some of the resellers keep stock, so you can pick up something.

 

I just think your expectation were wrong to begin with.