Nakaya Or Howto Waste Time & Money

[franzrogar]

@Pennata Penna, personally, I'd kill for the engraving I picked from Nakaya but, on the other hand, I always keep true to my beliefs.

What needs Nakaya to fix all this? Well, I think go to a Company 101 class. I mean, do what is expected from any company:

• Answer when a customer ask a question (Nakaya never answered)
• Answer as fast and accurate as possible ("never ever" is a time?)
• Solve problems, not create more (if you have an order, comply with it, not deny it because your customer's native lang is not English and send him to buy in other shop)
• Check the quality of your products *before* they left your building (once bitten, twice shy)
• If a customer returns a product, pay the shipment as it's *your fault* for not making a proper Quality Control
• Create an automatic system to check the status of your order. That's as simple as giving an ID and sending a query to a database field.
• etc. Everything you can learn in a Company 101 class.

Resuming, act as a Company. But not only for me but for all customers. If they can't comply with this, better is them to close, sincerely.

 

And, at least, contact me telling me they're sorry for all the trouble (no word from Nakaya ever entered my e-mail).

 

And answering your question, I think an arab proverb matches this situation perfectly:
"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me".

So, I will never trust Nakaya ever again, though, as I started, I'd kill for the engraved pen I picked.

So you to know, the seller sent some compensation items (which I returned too) for the trouble and I answered something like this: "I do thank those (as I'm educated) but you've found the only human in this world who do truly hate 'compensation prizes' instead of a quality service".


@Namo, I was tempted and their quality is amazing but... (there's always a but) they're too "classic" for my taste. From modern creators, I have Ken Cavers in sight just to find the One pen from his work. So far, he has somes but they lack something to truly catch my eye.

@ethernautrix, yes, as I wrote, I'd prefer buying a swan and plucking it to make pens before adquiring another Nakaya for now. For now, I have en eye on Ken Cavers, as I've just said.

On flex nibs, I only have vintage pens and vintage/antique dip nibs mainly:

• Nibs: Esterbrook #9128 (flex), Pelikan Richard Binder's 4XF full-flex (made at request), Waterman's Ideal (semi-flex), Eversharp Doric Adjustable #7 (flex).
• Dip nibs: Spencerian #1 (antique, vintage and late models), Esterbrook A1 Professional (antique), Esterbrook 354, 355, 356, 357 & 358 (vintage), Leonardt Principal (modern), Hunt 101 Imperial (modern), Gillott's 303 (modern), Leonardt #40 Steno (modern).

For drawing, I use or my Kuretake #50 sable hair brush or Hunt 101 Imperial and I love the mix they produce.

Edited December 22, 2013 by franzrogar

[Bisquitlips]

  On 12/22/2013 at 1:14 PM, ethernautrix said:

Wow. What a frustrating experience. I don't blame you for being upset.

 

Aside from long waits, I have not had a similar experience, but if I had, I would not want to buy from Nakaya anymore. I might possibly keep an eye on the classifieds for a used Nakaya, dealing with another fpn member rather than the manufacturer or the U.S. retailer.

 

I agree 100% with Lisa and love my Nakaya Burl FP. I was in the market for another one just this morning looking at a US site trying to determine which I wanted an why. After reading this thread I will stand by for a used one at some juncture in time.

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences Franz! I sincerely appreciate the time it took you to invest your experinces in the rest of us.

Edited December 22, 2013 by Bisquitlips

[franzrogar]

@Bisquitlips, I'd have prefered this thread to include pics and writing samples of the Nakaya Piccolo Housoge Kuro-tamenuro Writer but Destiny has a very twisted sense of humor.

 

Being in the "center of America" if you're down from México, including itself, then, you're banned to buy from the US retailer (thanks Nakaya for that) because your country native lang is not English.

 

If you're really interested in adquiring *unique* pens, I strongly recommend you to look for other artisans. I want to remember there were some thread in FPN about penmakers (some of them with truly masterpieces) that will thank you very much if you place an order with them (and, of course, they will answer to your e-mails too).

 

I wish you find the one pen you're looking for :-)

Edited December 22, 2013 by franzrogar

[Namo]

These Romillos made me dream, esp.the Sil model. But price is a worry here.

 

Ken is a wonderful maker. I have a pen from him fitted with a Platinum nib, and it is a daily writer. Next year I will complete a project with him for an ebonite desk pen. His attention to details is quite impressive!

[daintydimsum]

I'm sorry you've had such a poor experience. I'm rather surprised - I didn't realise the US retailer sends the customer's shipping address on to Nakaya since the pens go through the distributors before hitting the customers (I'm in the UK and this was my experience). I'd have better understood had you ordered from Nakaya directly.

 

A few other points:

- what do you mean by engravings not matching the section?

- customs are not Nakaya or the retailer's responsibilities, unfortunately, even if the defect was their fault!

- the wait time is typical (or even quite short) of a custom-made pen in Japan. if you can't wait, don't go handmade.

- nibs are so personal! and I don't purchase from Nakaya thinking I'm going to get a vintage nib -- or even something like vintage. Vintage nibs imo are fairly unique and have a definite place in my collection.

 

On the whole, it sounds like you had a terrible, terrible experience (especially since you got hit by customs so many times) and thank you for sharing your experience. I do however ultimately think that your recommendation that no one buy from Nakaya is not terribly helpful since it's coloured by your particular biases and anger - nib preferences, wait time preferences, etc. (I do think your observations with respect to the defects and even lacquer are valid though.) Custom-made pens are for people who can wait (and like modern nibs). Indeed, I believe Hakase uses Pilot nibs (correct me if I'm wrong), and Ohasido uses Sailor nibs.

 

All in all, half of what you experienced = uncalled for, while the other half may be simply not realising what the process involved. As for EU sellers, I believe there's one in Paris too.

[mirosc]

Well, I've ordered several times Nakayas (directly and from nibs.com) - every time it was a flawless experience and I can recommend both without hesitation. That's based on my facts :-)

What a pity that you didn't have the same experience. I can understand that they simply lost a customer in you.

 

Just two remarks:

 

For the engraving/pattern: I have the same one and there is only one position of four (?) possible ways so that the pattern of the cap aligns to the barrel. In all other positions the patterns does not align. When I got the pen I was quite disappointed, too, that there's no match, but then I figured it out that I have to align pen and cap in a special way before screwing it on.

I guess you have already tried that, but just for future reference, if anyone reads this thread...

 

For the flex: I have got two with flex, too, and they really does flex - but not like vintage or flex with different pens. It bends a lot - even more than vintage flex nibs, but without spreading as much as them (compared to vintage flex pens and other modern pens with added flex from the same retailer).

But again, I had been told that beforehand and knew about it. Sorry for your experience.

Edited December 23, 2013 by mirosc

[Ghost Plane]

A reminder that personal attacks violate board policy & result in valuable information being lost when they have to be moderated.

[proton007]

Wow,

It's certainly an interesting read.

 

I'm glad you were able to get the situation resolved, even if it took a year.

When you're paying that much for a product, there shouldn't be any margin for misunderstandings or miscommunication.

I'd say any remote chance I had of owning a Nakaya is now gone. A long wait and a possibility of getting a bad pen...no thanks.

Edited December 23, 2013 by proton007

[franzrogar]

@Ghost Plane, I'm deeply sorry for deviating from the spirit of the forum and the thread.

 

EDITED: entry to @daintydimsum rewritten (it got moderated):

 

@daintydimsum, my guess is Nakaya request all customer information because they say they tune your nib.

 

• what do you mean by engravings not matching the section?

Engravings (vine branches) goes up until they reach the section where they suddenly dissapear (empty space) to continue in the section rotated ~45 degrees.

• customs are not Nakaya or the retailer's responsibilities

Custom from the replacement are retailer's fault because they declared 33USD instead of ZERO, because they were replacement items.

• the wait time is typical (or even quite short) of a custom-made pen in Japan. if you can't wait, don't go handmade.

First, I've never complain about the waiting time (except the 3rd time). I complain paying 1,200USD and receiving defective items twice, which is completely different. (Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me). But a 3rd...

Oh, and I waited more than a year only for defective products.

• nibs are so personal! and I don't purchase from Nakaya thinking I'm going to get a vintage nib -- or even something like vintage.

As I wrote, I never expected a "vintage nib". I expected what they claimed: "flexible" + added flex. It ended as "slightly-flex" and hurted my arm trying to get line variation.

• I do however ultimately think that your recommendation that no one buy from Nakaya is not terribly helpful since it's coloured by your particular biases and anger

First, my recommendation is not "biased" or "angered" at all. It's "reasoned" and "structured", in fact, I wrote that I'd kill for getting the FP I choosed from Nakaya. But, I'm true to my beliefs: they have no PR, no QC and they do not respect their customers. Therefore, an awful Company.

Also, it's everyone duty to "inform" about Companies behaviour (good [many threads] and bad [ie. this one]).

• (I do think your observations with respect to the defects and even lacquer are valid though.)

Well, that's the only thing I've clamed because my recommendation is "reasoned" and "structured": got two shipments and got two defective products. Had to pay twice to return defective products. Waited +1 year for defective products. And, then, I had to wait another +6 months to what? A 50% change to get more defective products? No way.

• Custom-made pens are for people who can wait (and like modern nibs). Indeed, I believe Hakase uses Pilot nibs (correct me if I'm wrong), and Ohasido uses Sailor nibs.

I know and I can assure you I waited, just to get defective products over again.

• All in all, half of what you experienced = uncalled for, while the other half may be simply not realising what the process involved. As for EU sellers, I believe there's one in Paris too.

This sentence is, in my opinion, insulting. I won't be explaining again so it don't end moderated again.

As for EU "sellers", I don't have to buy an *overpriced* item when I can buy from "retailer". Plus paying 3 shipments: "sellers", "to US retailer to make nib modifications", "from US retailer to get FP back".

 

Again, you throw your judgement knowing only half of the story (as the first post indicates: "on the issues I ran with Nakaya (without the ones I ran with the seller)").

 

 

@mirosc, yes, your experiences are also fact. I never intended to say Nakaya is *always* bad, but to show that they have an equaly powerful wrong-side. Basically, if your lucky, wonderful; but if you're unlucky, well, you're screwed...

 

About the barrel-cap, I said my problem was with barrel-"SECTION", which only has one position (screwed). If you don't screwed it, it will fall apart (unscrewed). Screwed, the engravings barrel-section didn't match at all (they were rotated ~45 degrees). Barrel-cap has, as you pointed, 4 positions: 1 that matches and 3 that don't.

 

Flexibility also includes the pressure you need to apply to separate the tines. I want to remember Platignum is the one who makes Nakaya nibs. Compared to another modern nib (Pelikan Richard Bender's 4XF full-flex) because the Nakaya nib was also modified, the Nakaya nib is like a spoon (you have to apply too much force to bend it, which made my arm hurt) and Richard Bender's' like a plastic ruler (light force will bend it).

 

@proton007, problem is not getting a bad product *once*, problem is you will face such risks *each* time. Maybe third time was OK or maybe it wasn't as they proved they didn't make a proper Quality Control *twice*.

 

I'm also glad thing are *almost* fixed (still fighting Customs). But if you really want a Nakaya, you might look at Classifieds as, being second-handed, they have already passed a QC (previous owner). I, personally, don't want any product from them. There are other penmakers.

Edited December 23, 2013 by franzrogar

[Pennata Penna]

Franz, you've made your case. I have to admit you do have a strong case, therefore you are entitled to say all you've said, and we heard you loud and clear. But let's suppose you have your way. Everyone's conviced that they should not deal with Nakaya, the brand falls into obscurity and the septua/octogenarians who worked there hung their heads in shame since they can't do anything to rectify things, as the arab proverb would have the final say.. No more

 

Would that make you happy?

[dasnet]

Estimado Franz, lamento escuchar de tu experiencia. Yo he comprado todas mis Nakayas a traves de nibs.com, y nunca tuve ese problema, siendo que me las han mandado a Argentina sin problemas. Gracias.

 

--------

 

Dear Franz, sorry to hear of your experience. I bought all my Nakayas nibs.com through, and I never had that problem, being that I have sent to the Argentina smoothly. Thank you.

[franzrogar]

@Pennata Penna, the proper question is not if that'd make me "happy" or not. The proper one should Nakaya make to themselves: "should we try to fix our company problems or not?"

 

That's a completely different issue. I came here and explained my case, that's all. When people answered this thread distorting or misunderstanding what I wrote, I explained/correct them. I have not problem repeating as much as needed what I wrote.

 

From my POV, after reading my own case, the logical conclusion is not to buy from Nakaya until they fix their problems as it's too risky. I'm not using a knife into your throats to forbid you to buy (Nakaya does that by itself forbidding you to buy from a retailer if you don't speak English).

 

Now, people if free to choose but, to be *free*, you have to know there's always another side and have to be aware of that.

 

 

Back on topic, Nakaya closes? I, sincerely, don't care. It's not *my* company. Truth I'd miss some of its catalog, but, again, it's not my fault they don't know how to treat properly their customers or how to properly run a company.

 

As I started this answer, it's Nakaya who do truly must correct their mistakes. And this applies to thousands and thousands of companies around the world: do right your work or close.

 

 

One example that fits in here, it's Ackerman Pens. Its begining was... well... disastrous (to say it lightly). They heard the customers complaining (sure it took some time but years less than Nakaya) and recently hired one person just to manage shipments and they're working on improved models of pens. That's the way to "survive" as a company.

 

Here, I will cite a verse from a spaniard poet (Machado): "Rinovarse o perire" (renew or die). If *any* company wants to survive, it has to act as one (see #21 for more details).

 

 

And, alongside your mention to septua/octogenarians, again, I don't care if they "hung their heads in shame since they can't do anything to rectify things"; because if they think that way, they MUST close right now and not wait (re-read previous paragraph). Again, if you don't know how to run a company, close it or contract someone who does. As simple as that.

 

They have masterliness, no doubt; but if your products are defective DO NOT sell them as if they were masterpieces; or sell them as "defective" at lower prices. Do not want to live from your past (that only works for Disney and Bono) and fix your company problems.

 

BTW, the arab proverb is "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me". The "nevermore" is from poem "The Crow" by Poe.

 

 

@dasnet, gracias, es mi sino. No obstante, ya no puedes pedirlas al distribuir de EE. UU. (Nakaya lo prohíbe), así que tendrás que pedirlas directamente en su web oficial.

Thanks, that's my destiny. On the other hand, you can't buy them from US retailer anymore (Nakaya forbids it), so you'll have to buy them directly from the official web site.

[raging.dragon]

  On 12/22/2013 at 2:15 PM, franzrogar said:

[...]

 

@mongrelnomad, what would have happen if the adquisition went perfect? Probably I'd have to sell it or try to replace the nib somehow because it's almost stiff in my hands and I'm unable to write with such kind of nibs. I feel comfortable writing with Hunt 101 Imperial, Esterbrook A1 Pro, Leonardt Principal, etc. dip nibs The less flex nib I use would be Esterbrook 355 and it's quite uncomfortable to use (for me).

 

[...]

 

In that case I doubt you'd be satisfied with any fountain pen. Maybe "wet noodle" nib from the early 1900's, or a modern nib customized for additional flex; however, even those will be less flexible than a dip pen flex nib. I'd suggest you contact Romillo, a fountain pen maker based in Spain. They make their own nibs, including flexible nibs, and might be able to make an extra flexible one for you.

[franzrogar]

@raging.dragon, as I wrote, I use as a daily writer and I'm amazed with the work in the nib a Pelikan Richard Binder's 4XF full-flex (made at request).

 

I didn't know Romillo made their own nibs. Problem is that their catalog is way too classic for my taste (as I wrote somewhere in this thread).

 

About what you comment, I guess that's why I mentioned Ackerman Pens before. I began to look to other solution to modern flexiblelessness (except for excelent Binder's work) and ended with their pump pens.

[raging.dragon]

  On 12/31/2013 at 8:03 AM, franzrogar said:

@raging.dragon, as I wrote, I use as a daily writer and I'm amazed with the work in the nib a Pelikan Richard Binder's 4XF full-flex (made at request).

 

I didn't know Romillo made their own nibs. Problem is that their catalog is way too classic for my taste (as I wrote somewhere in this thread).

 

About what you comment, I guess that's why I mentioned Ackerman Pens before. I began to look to other solution to modern flexiblelessness (except for excelent Binder's work) and ended with their pump pens.

 

Another option, somewhat similar to the Ackerman pen, would be putting a flexible vintage or dip pen nib in any modern fountain pen you like. I've read of others having done this, though for prolonged writing it would probably require modifying the fountain pen feed to supply more ink (so it can keep up with the flex nib), and corrosion would be a problem for a (non-stainless) steel dip nib sitting on a fountain pen feed.

[franzrogar]

@raging.dragon, yes, I'm well aware of the corrosion and the feed modification needed and that's another thing that made to look for Ackerman Pens too.

 

I don't have any problem changing nibs properly if needed.

 

My showstopper was modifying the feed. Heating a plastic feed is always a source of problem on the long run. OK, do once just for one kind of dip nib.

 

But still, the main problem you didn't mention stands still: you have to be sure/be lucky to find a pen where the dip nib fits. OK, they're supposed to be "standard"-alike but when you try to fit it we discover it's not at all.

 

Ackerman has the feeds that already matches the dip nibs: one for Hunt 101 Imperial, for Leonardt Principal, etc. My guess is that with minimal or none modification, I can make them match most of my other dip nibs (ie. Gillott 170 section for Esterbrook 354, 355; Hunt 101 Imperial for Esterbrook 357, 358; Leonardt Principal for Esterbrook A1 Pro, Spencerian #1; so forth).

 

The only thing that keeps me a bit away right now (apart from that "default" looking of the FP) is that I always try to look for all option and ponderate them before making a decition. It took me 12 years to select the size, position, rotation and design of a tatoo.

Edited December 31, 2013 by franzrogar

[Toll]

This has certainly been an interesting thread to read through and I will also express my regrets about the experience you had with Nakaya. I will thank you for pointing me in the direction of the Romillo brand. I had never heard of this company but their pens are exceedingly classic and beautiful.

[ukobke]

...and the King has no clothes !!!!!!!!

 

What do we have here? It was always my question... do Nakaya pens worth all this "fame"? All this waiting time? all this trouble? Is this a new racism ?...sell only to English talking countries?

 

Franz you raised too many topics.

 

what is the difference of a Platinum Izumo vs a Nakaya?. Same nib, better Urushi ? Surely not. Izumo is cheaper. .... but there is A difference. You do not have to wait.

 

Franz, In every line you were right. In case it was a quality company, they shouldn't treat your case like this. Any company can make mistakes. Even the best and most expensive brands in all kinds.

The difference what makes a Big brand vs a small brand, is the way they treat customers. In your case Nakaya proved themselves a small company.

 

@all. I would not mind waiting even for two or three years for a pen. Myself as collector, I wait all my life to find some pens. BUT my waiting time for a NAKAYA or ANY pen does not make the pen more valuable. Surely Nakaya is a pen to be mentioned, but after all these we learned we should really see if the king wears clothes.

[Poision Pen]

WOW! That's the first word which comes to my mind.

 

I have ordered pens twice from Nakaya directly and I must stress that both times have been a total pleasure. The first was a Cigar model with a two tone standard fine nib, complete with kanji inscription on the barrel. The second was a Piccolo model with Zo-gan inlay on the section and once again, kanji on the barrel. Both finished in the wonderful Aka-Tamenuri finish. [Like Ferrari which should only come in Red]

 

The Cigar took no more that 8 weeks to arrive at my door. Ordered on Christmas day, it arrived in early March.

 

The Piccolo, also ordered in December one year later, took a little longer. I think it was around the end of April when I got it. A longer wait due to a few things. This pen has the Zo-gan inlay as well as a custom nib. I selected a "soft flexible" two tone nib ground to a stub.

An additional delay was due to the fact that while it was almost ready to ship, Japan was in turmoil due to the Tohoku Earthquake. I could not believe that Nakaya and Ms.Yoko Kono actually offered apologies for the delay. During a horribly destructive time which took the lives of 17000 people, I was offered an apology for my pen being a little late! Such wonderful, selfless people.

 

Both times the order process was very easy and pleasant. Dealing with Ms. Yoko Kono was always simple and she was always willing to offer as much help to me in the decision making process of my pen selection as she could. The Piccolo was the most fun, and also the saddest pen to order. We shared may e-mails back and forth as I was having a hard time really deciding on which nib to go with. Because of the horrible events taking place, several of our e-mails had nothing to do with pens at all, but dealt with the situation in Japan at the time. It was truly amazing hearing her side of things, without the TNN spin on everything.

 

Both pens arrived in perfect condition and were things of beauty. Tiny little works of art. And the nibs were amazing to write with, smooth as hot butter. I recall being surprised at how fine and sharp the Nakaya "fine" nib is, this one even finer that my Sailor Fine nib, yet so smooth to use. No tooth at all.

 

The "soft medium stub" is also fantastic to write with. Wonderful line variation with only the slightest hint of tooth, and only if allowed to rotate a little. This of course is the nature of a stub nib which is slightly more position sensitive than a cursive italic. Ms. Kono went out of her way to speak with the in house nib meister and warn me that a stub MAY have a little more feedback than a standard nib, and possibly more so as it would be a "soft" nib. More flex, more opening of the tines, etc. She showed great concern that I made the correct choice in nib selection.

 

As I write this I am getting ready to place my order for my third Nakaya. A Neo Standard with a medium nib ground to a cursive italic this time. Yes of course, Aka-tamenuri.

 

To anyone thinking of getting a Nakaya please do not rule out the enjoyable process of getting it straight from Tokyo. For me, there is just something "complete" about getting my Japanese Urushi finished fountain pen right from the land in which it was crafted.

 

I bought my second Sailor pen from Nibs. John did a truly amazing job of grinding that medium nib to a cursive italic, and I don't have any problem stating that they are also great to buy from. I would do so again. But for my Nakaya, there is just something about dealing with them directly which appeals to me. Perhaps it will with you too. I know many others here feel the same way.

[Namo]

Some people tend to forget how much human work is involved in this making. This is not an industrial product. I think the pens are amazingly affordable in that regard, and one should take that on account when bashing these people's work.

I wonder how long one would tolerate such words if the company was not Nakaya but a German one starting with M and with a B on the middle...

Finally one should not make general assumptions from a singular experience.

 

Happy new year!