How Do I Know If A Pen Is Too Small?

[xTwiinKy]

I mean the more I think and search about it, the more I'm confused. I've also read of big people with large hands preferring small or standard pens.

 

I have small-medium hands but could I still find small-medium pens too small?

How do I know specifically if a pen is too long, short, thin, thick, heavy, light?

 

Please redirect me to any other threads because I haven't found any.

 

Thanks.

Edited December 14, 2013 by xTwiinKy

[usk15]

i have 2 suggestions:

- go to a pen shop and check different pens.

- picture comparison between pen you like and pen that you know how big is it, usually google the pens name together.

[kiavonne]

It's hard to say without knowing what pens you usually like to write with and hold.

 

A shorter pen can be fat, a longer pen can be thin, a posted pen can be back heavy, non posted might not fit against the web of your hand comfortably. Weight and construction of the pen will also factor in. Is there a pen now that fits your hand to your liking?

 

Check the pen review forum and also take a peek at the videos on the Goulet's website. Brian Goulet reviews several pens and he shows how they fit his hand and also how they look and stack up with other, similar pens.

 

I just got a small pen. I didn't realize it was this small. But, the weight of the pen and its balance while posted makes it ok for me to use. I prefer a slightly larger pen than most so I don't have to grip it too hard (I have arthritis) but if it isn't balanced well, it still won't work well for me. I find that most of my Pilot pens are good, they are heavier, but my Edison pens which are larger and lighter work well for me, too.

 

It's trial and error, and a lot of research, until you find your perfect fit, really. I'm afraid there isn't going to be any one good answer for you.

[sumgaikid]

The average size of most vintage and contemporary pens is around 5"(+/-). Most

vintage ladies pens are around 3.75-4". Some vintage junior-sized pens( like Parker

Duofolds) are around 4.5". As has been said,you just need to try them in your hand

to get an idea of what works for you.

 

 

John

[Ted A]

Are there pens or pencils that you have used in the past that are too small for you? That would be a starting point. There is a lot of individuality involved as well. I generally don't have issues with pens of any size being either too large or too small. Often if there is any problem it may have more to do with weight, balance or slipperiness of the pen, not diameter.

[owend]

If you have some pencils, ballpoints, marker pens etc, with different lengths and diameters, try them all for comfort.

 

Check where on the pen/cil your hand feels comfortable and while you're holding it like that measure the distance from the tip (ie nib) to where it stops touching your hand - for a conventional grip that's probable the pad between thumb and first finger. For me, it's 4.75" or 122mm. That means I am comfortable with an unposted pen of that length (I have a Kaigelu which writes nicely but won't post!) or of course longer pens, posted and unposted.

 

That doesn't allow for the weight of the pen or its balance, but it's a start.

[xTwiinKy]

Sorry if I didnt make it clear. I was trying to understand "how" or "why" literally. haha

The pen might feel small in my hand but how do I know exactly? What is the sensation. (thin, small)

 

I want to be able to know exactly when I pick up my pens whether I think its too small/ thin / long etc.

Instead of guessing and losing focus pinpointing it.

 

I mean we can all go into a pen store and hold a few pens. Really only the huge or super heavy ones will shock you. Narrowing down differences of an eighth or a quarter of an inch in models, mm 's in barrel thicknesses, grams in weight to fit your appeal seems much more complicated.

 

How do I know if the pen feels to thick/thin or short/long or heavy/light.

 

I only completely understand how a pen feels being long because it would be back heavy. The rest I can obviously feel for but I'm not sure whether I like it or not.

[MisterBoll]

You can discuss this until the cows come home but the only way to know is to hold the pen in hand and see how it feels.

 

This is something you have to do - no one else is going to tell you what fits your hand.

[ac12]

It is really how it feels to YOU, and in some cases how it looks to you.

It does not matter how it feels to someone else, even someone with the same size hand.

 

Example I like slimline pens (think a #2 pencil).

My Parker 180 has a grip diameter of 8.4mm and a barrel diameter of 9.5mm.

Some/many people cannot write with or do not like a pen this small.

 

On the other hand, the popular TWSBI is too fat for me.

To me, it feels like I am in kindergarten holding those HUGE pencils.

The mini-TWSBI is barely acceptable, but still feels FAT.

 

Similarly with weight, I have 2 pens that I have put away, because they are too heavy for me to write with.

 

As for length.

I LIKE writing with desk pens, and some of them are pretty long, but they balance really nicely.

Short pens to me are either a fashion or a function (pocket pen).

If it is a function, like a pocket pen, then it is something that I accept and live with to get the function of being able to put the pen in my pants pocket.

 

But again it is how does the pen feel in your hand?

If it is too short, you can't hold it well. There are pens that you have to post, because unposted they are too short to hold. But as with pocket pens, sometimes you put up with the less than optimal hold of the pen, to get the desired functionality of the short pen.

If it is too long, the balance could be off (tail heavy) and difficult to write with.

 

Another thing related to balance is posting the pen or not posting the pen. Posting is putting the cap on the end of the pen as you write, not posting is not putting the cap on the pen. I normally post my pen. But I tried a pen in a store, and the cap was sooo heavy that the pen was extremely tail heavy when posted. It was almost impossible for me to write with that pen with the cap posted. Did the manufacturer intend for the pen to be used only unposted?

 

There is also a different feel, a visual feel/asthetics. Example, the Esterbrook LJ and SJ are the same diameter, but the SJ is just a bit shorter than the LJ. For me, visually the LJ is more pleasing to look at in my hand than the shorter SJ, and thus the LJ is my preferred Esterbrook. This is purely a visual feel, nothing to do with how it physically feels in your hand.

 

For most of this stuff, you need to physically have the pen in YOUR hand to determine the fit.

I have been surprised a few times when I received a pen that was bigger or smaller than I expected.

In the one case, the FAT HEAVY pen was put away, never to be used by me.

[inkstainedruth]

Interesting topic. I suspect that I may have hands (which I often refer to as "small girly hands") much like xTwiinKy's. Most of my pens are slim to medium size; I like Parker Vectors and Noodler's Flex Piston pens, but sometimes they're a little too small in girth.

Pens that are a perfect size/weight/balance for me:

1) Noodler's Konrads (both the original resin and the ebonite -- I was worried about the balance on the slightly longer ebonite pen, but it's fine); have not tried the acrylic body ones

2) Parker 51s (both Aero and Vac models) -- my absolute favorite pen is the Plum demi Aero, but I've been using the blue Aero recently after having gotten it repaired last month at the Ohip Pen Show.

3) Parker Vacumatic Major -- I'm really starting to like mine more and more.

4) Esterbrook J and Transitional J (both these and the Vac Major are a reasonable size for me and not heavy).

All of these are reasonable sized pens, but not too heavy (so I could probably write all day without much of a problem getting tired), or too big around (screwing up the balance) or too long (ditto) or so slim that I get cramps from gripping a bit too tightly.

I was in a big antiques mall out in eastern Ohio yesterday, and several of the booths had pens. A few I bypassed (for various reasons) but in most of the other cases I asked to have the case opened so I could look over the pens.

One booth actually had a number of pens (I picked up a rather nice-looking Snorkel Statesman with an EF nib; apparently the husband of the dealer does repairs/restoration), but there was some other random Sheaffer (dunno what, wasn't that interested) and a couple of Labans; the Labans were big and sort of top heavy -- and a bit pricy for me -- so they were left for some other enterprising buyer.

Another booth had an interesting looking German pen (I think the brand was USUS). It was interesting looking, and quite a bit cheaper than the Snorkel in the first booth -- but when I picked it up it appeared to have some sort of metal body (with maybe enamel over it), and the thing was *heavy*. And had this big huge honking nib (I'm guessing at *least* a #8 size, and maybe a lot bigger, since my Konrads all have #6 sized nibs). It was a nice enough looking pen, but way too heavy for me (made me think of the weight of my friend's MB149 -- only maybe even heavier).

I've also tried other peoples' pens (even the MB 146 was a bit too heavy; ditto a Pelikan 800 although I suspect that a 400 would be an ideal size for me). I've gone on a tiny pen kick recently, but those are more for the novelty factor: I can see the Arnold mini-pen, for example, living in my purse to make quick notes for myself -- but not for using to write a novel; and while I think my Vac Debutante is absolutely lovely, the section is just a tad too short to be really comfortable for long haul writing (i.e., for more than my daily journal).

And that's *another* issue you have to consider -- what is the pen like to hold in your fingers (not just in your hand)? A lot of people love their Safaris, but I can't get around that triangular grip -- when I tried one I really hated how it felt. Whereas I've read posts from people who can't stand the metal section on pens like the Vectors: but I wouldn't be without mine. Okay, if push came to shove I could probably, tearfully, let most of them go (but not Perdita, the blue wet-writing F nibbed one -- that pen is just special).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[85AKbN]

Find your point of reference (POR). A pen, that you know, write with, that you find comfortable, but it's either a tad too small or too large. Or maybe it's your goldilock's pen (just right http://pics3.city-data.com/forum/images/smilies/biggrin.gif). Then you compare.

[Runnin_Ute]

My smallest pen is my Esterbrook J - capped it is close in size to both my Pelikan's (a 120 M & K and a M205) and my Konrad, but uncapped and unposted it is quite a bit shorter

 

uncapped from shortest to longest:

Estie J - only one I would really consider posting seriously.

Pelikan 120

Pelikan M205

Konrad

Phileas

Phileas (the Konrad & the Phileas' are the same length unposted, but the Phileas has a bit more girth)

True Writer Silver Anniversary - slightly shorter than the Phileas unposted - all in the nib size as they are identically sized, but capped it is the longest) I don't like the way this posts - it seems to not want to stay on the back, plus the balance is tail heavy posted. It weighs 30 grams. About the same weight as the 159 - if not heavier.

Jinhao 159

Lamy Al Star (longer uncapped, but shorter capped than the 159)

 

The TWSA and the 159 are similar in weight, but the 159 has more girth.

[ac12]

@xTwiinKy

Note above, Ruth prefers a pen that is larger in diameter than me. I prefer the smaller Esterbrook LJ than the larger J. In fact I prefer my pens even smaller, the old "slimlines." So Ruth would probably NOT like how my favorite slimline pens feel in her hand.

The Parker 51 that she likes is about as big as I would like to handle.

What is good for Ruth is big for me, and what is good for me is small for Ruth.

 

So there is no way to know what is big and small.

It is back to personal feel.

And the only way that I know to determine this is to feel different pens to narrow down what you like and don't like.

 

And a v7ef44 said, you need a point of reference (PoR) to work from.

Example, the pen you have is a tad large in diameter, so you find a smaller one and see if it feels better, yes/no. Maybe you have to go even smaller, maybe you went too small and have to go up to one in-between.

As for being objective, well you need a ruler to measure length, a caliper to measure diameter and a scale to measure weight. Then you have an objective measurement of the pens as you narrow down to what is "acceptable."

 

BTW, I use the measurements in reverse. Since I have my PoR, I can determine if a pen fits into my acceptable window of size and weight or not based on its specs. Examples; if the grip diameter is 12mm it is out (too big), if the weight is 30 grams it is out (too heavy).

Edited December 15, 2013 by ac12

[79spitfire]

For me it's how well I can write with the pen for extended periods of time, so a combination of factors will always be pen dependent. For example, I love the look and feel of many Japanese pocket pens, their balance and heft are just right, even though the pen's diameter is fairly small. Some of my antique pens are case queens because even though they are the same diameter, they make my hand hurt after a fairly short time writing. The trend for me seems to be the longer the pen, the more likely I will need a larger diameter section. The section shape makes a difference as well, as does the material (I'm sure some of this is psychological!).

 

I could sit an list some of my favorites, and less favorites, but it may not be relevant to you, really the only way to know is to try some and see. My experience shows me that there is no one given range of sizes that can be comfortable or not, their are too many other factors.

 

If you could go to a pen posse meeting or get to a very understanding, well stocked store you would be doing yourself a favor. I ended up buying way too many pens that I couldn't use, fortunately, they meet my collecting* needs.....

 

*OK, I suppose you could read this as 'hording'.... but all those colors are sooooo pretty.....

 

*slinks off to go drool over pens....

[View from the Loft]

As others have said, it's all down to individual factors. And to make matters even more complicated, what is comfortable for me changes from day to day due to an old injury. On bad days, the most comfortable pens I own are a pair of modern Onoto Magna Classics, weighing in at about 25g with a section diameter of around 13mm (from memory, so p,ease don't quote me on this). I also have pens with smaller section diameters e.g. Parker 51, 45, 25, Conway Stewart 27, 75 and 200, Pelikan M600 and Waterman Carene. The Carene is by far the heaviest pen I own, but it is so well balanced for me that as long as my hand isn't sore in the morning I can write with it all day long effortlessly. The other big thing for me that determines whether a pen is comfortable fo me is the material the section is made from - and I cannot cope with metal sections. That rules out many pens for me.

 

I hope you enjoy finding what works for you. Fortunately, there are so many pens available that we can all indulge our own individual preferences.

[owend]

To confuse things further, I'm fairly newly returned to FPs, having used two of the same pen for the last two decades, fairly thin but solid-feeling Parker 88s. After lots of agonising, I have a Faber Castell Ambition (quite heavy, lots of chromed brass, wood barrel, quite long especially posted) and more recently a Pelikan M200 (lighter, all-plastic, shorter and wider), and I would be hard-put to say which suits me better. I think for most people there's a fairly broad range of weights and dimensions, and the pen's nib, balance and general "ambience" (i can't think of a more accurate word) are more important than simple statistics.

 

Which means, if you can, go to shops and ask to feel their pens - they'll let you, they're trying to sell their merchandise!

[proton007]

To me it's a combination of the pen's balance and posting.

 

If a pen is balanced without posting, and I feel the need to post it, then its too small for me.

 

Most small pens (<13cm) are designed to be used posted.

 

Most large pens (>14cm) are better held without posting.

 

The ones in the middle (13-14cm) are the trouble-makers.

Edited December 15, 2013 by proton007

[ISW_Kaputnik]

I haven't yet tried a fountain pen that was too small for me, although there might be a few. The Kaweco Liliput is pushing it, but I can write with it comfortably enough. The Parker 51 and 21 are fairly thin, but still feel right. So does an Esterbrook SJ, and there are others. I'm generally more concerned over whether a pen will be too large. A small pen feels more nimble.

 

On the other hand, the Pilot Petit1 is a stubby little pen that doesn't feel quite right to me. It's not the length, although you do have to post the cap to get it long enough; it's the step between the barrel and the section. So it does all come down to how it feels in your hand, and that's not always easy for strangers on the Internet to predict.

[readonly]

For me it's how well I can write with the pen for extended periods of time, so a combination of factors will always be pen dependent.

This. For me it's rather pointless to go to a shop and try a bunch of pens for five minutes. Most of them will feel pretty good. Only a few weeks of thorough use reveal if the pen is really comfortable for me, including a couple of long writing sessions. It's a bit annoying because I ended up buying and selling many pens, losing lots of money in the process.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Back when every man had a fountain pen, and perhaps an old fashioned one from the previous decade, Pens were the medium small size of a Pelikan 140, some Kaweco's and a Geha 760, there were many standard sized pens, like a Pelikan M400, Geha 790, Esterbrook, some Parkers (Vac or P-75), Sheaffers and all other pen companies in the world.

Many to most also had a medium large pen like a P-51, Pelikan 400NN, Geha 725.

 

Then there were only a few Large pens in the old days....where everyone wrote the whole day.

There was/is Large pens like the Snorkel and or PMF, Safari, 800 or 146 (that grew from medium large to Large) Now every company makes a lot of Large pens....'everyone' needs a signature pen...Large, heavy...bling across the room.

Others need real huge pens 149-1000 Pelikan and many others.....

 

If one posts a 140-M400-Esterbrook, P-75 or even a 400NN, they are not small pens.....they may not be as wide as some of the modern wide long pens....a Safari, Pelikan 800, Twsbi, they are longer than them non-posted.

 

 

If you post a standard sized pen, they are longer than a Long pen.

If you learn to use the 'forefinger up' method of grasping a pen instead of the 'classic tripod', a pen will no longer be too thin, too fat, too long, too shore(if posted).

If you refuse to look at this and learn it...takes 3 minutes....yep....some pens can be too narrow....like most of the '70-80's pens back when thin pens were in.

You can if you are stubborn, go back to classic tripod....if you need too for dip pens or such...American P-75 or Safari.

If you know both grips, there is only BS to say a pen is too wide...to narrow....if you post the pen can not be too small.....it is longer than an un-posted Large or Oversize pen.

 

Many refuse at all costs to post a standard sized pen and then complain to the world...the pen is too small it is not the same length as a 146-800....it's longer when posted...but posting a pen is immoral and illegal in Kansas.

 

I'm not sure when Waterman, Parker, Sheaffer (outside PMF) started making big pens. By Pelikan it was '87...some time around then, the MB 146 grew from medium large to Large.

So we have a whole vocal generation that grew up with very big pens...and because the pens were so big, did not post them.

They then scream...standard, medium-large or medium-small pens are too small.....because they'd go back to using a ball point before posting a pen so designed to be posted, a pen designed to be balanced posted....your basic standard sized pen that folks used up to the late '80's.

 

Yep...had lots of basketball players too, and folks with hands wide enough to throw the truly fat and wide '30-40's early '50's foot ball . They used standard sized and medium-large pens....oh, they posted them.

Don't believe the, crud their hands are too big to use anything but medium sized MB 149's.

 

It's simple they refuse to post.

Edited December 15, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson