Learning Italic

[dms525]

Here is a "progress report" of sorts. It's an early attempt to use a template with guidelines for formal italic.

 

I know there are some flagrant errors in letter formation, but I'm posting it anyway as a point on the graph, so to speak.

 

 

Thanks again to those who have offered advice and encouragement.

 

David

[smk]

Thank you for sharing this David.

 

I find myself with a different problem, I can write formal Italic without too much trouble but as soon as I try to use it as a running hand I start losing control - my muscle memory from my regular cursive hand tries to take over. I find that I need to write at a slow enough speed that I can still exercise some muscle control rather than relying mostly on muscle memory. I don't know if I'll ever get to the point of being able to write cursive Italic automatically but I'll probably see improvement in speed - I'll share pictures of my next practice session.

 

BTW - which ink did you use above?

 

Salman

[dms525]

Salman,

 

What I would have to call "my regular cursive hand" is simply horrible when written at speed. In fact, speed is its problem. It developed taking notes in college and medical school in the futile attempt to keep up with the lecturers. I have essentially abandoned it in favor of italic. Now, I am writing italic at a comfortable speed with no pressure to speed up. What I have found is that, after practicing italic for an hour or so, if I write in my "regular cursive," it benefits, at least temporarily, from my italic hand's better legibility.

 

My inexpert opinion is that the best way to circumvent the problem you describe is to stop using your "regular cursive hand" entirely for a few weeks, and rely exclusively on cursive italic.

 

The ink I used is, I believe, Private Reserve "Navaho Red." More brown then red, I think, but it shades nicely when used with a broad nib.

 

David

[Italicist]

 

Edited to correct linky-photographic wonkiness and poster's ineptitude.

Edited November 26, 2013 by Italicist

[akustyk]

Graph paper, though not as useful as proper guidelines, can sometimes be helpful, especially for quick practice.

Italicist: great job!

David: big improvement with the guidelines!

 

Here's my practice from last night:

http://i1297.photobucket.com/albums/ag32/akustyk/IMG_7801_zps981f1b4b.jpg

[Randal6393]

I want to start learning italic. I've started watching the Lloyd Reynolds videos and have been practicing with a standard nib. I don't have an italic nib at the moment. I have a Safari and am going to get a nib for it but, should I get the largest I can get so I can see my mistakes better or should I go smaller like a 1.5 so I'm more likely to use it in every day writing?

 

 

Whichever works best for you. Or feels like it would work for you. Might want to try a set of student calligraphy pens, say a set by Manuscript. Many calligraphers use them. The pens have easily-changed nibs. So you can practice large, then write small.

 

Best of luck to you,

[bassmannate]

Whichever works best for you. Or feels like it would work for you. Might want to try a set of student calligraphy pens, say a set by Manuscript. Many calligraphers use them. The pens have easily-changed nibs. So you can practice large, then write small.

 

Best of luck to you,

Thanks for the tip on the calligraphy set! I had been looking for Platignum sets like Lloyd Reynolds suggests but I was iffy on buying something like this from ebay without knowing if it had been abused as a learner kit. Now that I know I can get something similar new, I think that will be the route to take!

[avt]

Hi, avt,

 

One of the best books -- with follow-along exercises -- is Fred Eager's The Italic Way to Beautiful Handwriting. Another excellent book is Lloyd Reynold's Italic Calligraphy and Handwriting. For exemplars on the italic hand, don't overlook Ken Fraser's book on Italic Variants. There are many, many more -- Google italic hand and see what you get.

 

Enjoy,

Thanks Randal,

 

I've ordered Eager's and Reynold's books off ebay. I'm looking forward to spending my holidays with them.

 

Andrew

[avt]

Here is a "progress report" of sorts. It's an early attempt to use a template with guidelines for formal italic.

 

I know there are some flagrant errors in letter formation, but I'm posting it anyway as a point on the graph, so to speak.

 

 

Thanks again to those who have offered advice and encouragement.

 

David

Hello David,

 

Where did you get that template guideline, I'd love to try use it.

 

Andrew

[dms525]

Hello David,

Where did you get that template guideline, I'd love to try use it.

Andrew

 

Hi, Andrew.

 

Here is a link to the guideline generator: Linugraphy

 

I think it's quite flexible and reasonably self-explanatory, at least with a bit of trial and error.

 

Enjoy!

 

David

 

 

Edited November 27, 2013 by dms525

[dms525]

Just another progress report. This was written with a larger nib, but also after looking at a page of Jaki Sverin's formal italic, written at a recent session of the Reed College Scriptorium.

 

 

David

[mvarela]

A bit of italic practice... I need to work more on this (the letter widths are killing me)!

Brause 3mm nib with PR Tanzanite on cartridge paper; x-height 13mm

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/11211958104_55319a273a_h.jpg

Edited December 4, 2013 by mvarela

[PrestoTenebroso]

A bit of italic practice... I need to work more on this (the letter widths are killing me)!

Brause 3mm nib with PR Tanzanite on cartridge paper; x-height 13mm

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7354/11211958104_55319a273a_h.jpg

Hey, that looks pretty sweet! I love that color. I've got a sample of Tanzanite waiting to be tried out, and you've got me excited to try italic with it!

 

What kind of pencil did you use to make the guidelines, and what's the paper?

Edited December 5, 2013 by PrestoTenebroso

[mvarela]

Hey, that looks pretty sweet! I love that color. I've got a sample of Tanzanite waiting to be tried out, and you've got me excited to try italic with it!

 

What kind of pencil did you use to make the guidelines, and what's the paper?

 

Thanks! I used a 0.5mm HB mechanical pencil. The paper is from some random sketchbook. It's some sort of cartridge paper.

[PrestoTenebroso]

I tried it out last night on some Clairefontaine seyes, and a 1.9mm nib. Man, that was a fun 45 minutes!

[bassmannate]

Well, I'll be joining this thread soon. Just ordered a 1.5 and 1.9 for my Safari. Looking forward to it!

[caliken]

David (dms525) :

 

As others have mentioned, you're making great progress and I'm pleased that the guidelines are helping.

However, you say that your 'hand & eye are battling for control of the pen'

 

It occurs to me, that there's a point perhaps worth mentioning here. Although most text books advocate a slope of around 5 - 9 degrees, this is arguably, the most flexible of all scripts, and I've seen perfectly acceptable Italic at anywhere from 0 - 15 degrees. You may be trying to force your handwriting into an unnatural slope for your hand and mind.

 

As an exercise, I suggest that you handwrite a page at a comfortable speed without guidelines, and then try to guage your most natural slope which occurs most often within 0 - 15 degrees. This then becomes your slope for Italic and you can produce your guidelines accordingly. Always remenber that whatever slope you adopt, must be consistent throughout your writing. (At a greater slope than 15 degrees, Italic tends to change its character and become something else).

Finding your own natural slope, should make consistency much easier to achieve and maintain.

 

I would also suggest that, if possible, you produce your guideline sheets in a pale colour. No matter how fine the lines, a black grid isn't helpful as it interferes visually with the lettering. A pale grid is just as easy to follow and is far less intrusive. It's quite simple to reproduce your grids in a pale green or blue on a domestic inkjet printer - or any copyshop can do the job.

It really is worth persevering with the guidelines.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Ken

Edited December 6, 2013 by caliken

[caliken]

Italicist :

 

Nice, even Italic which is easy on the eye....thanks for posting.

 

Ken

[Columba Livia]

I noticed that the university of Seville (in Spain) has scanned in an Italic copybook, "Nueva arte de escreuir inventada con el fabor de Dios", by the Spanish Calligrapher Pedro Diaz Morante, it is here:

 

http://fondosdigitales.us.es/fondos/libros/799/40/nueva-arte-de-escreuir-inventada-con-el-fabor-de-dios/vista_amplia/?desplegar=9133&desplegar=9135

 

For convenience, I've saved all the scans and uploaded them here:

 

https://mega.co.nz/#!2IN1BCzb!Yek5rVBgd9AyEPNsoDF5bBG9LkVIg66YULsPyOV6GeQ

 

There are 84 pages of calligraphy in total. Note the pages with birds on, for what could go better with elegant letters than those most elegant and noble creatures that we call birds.

 

Here are a few reduced in size plates from it.

 

please especially note how Pedro Diaz Morante is holding the pen: supporting his hand with his little finger and holding the pen with the fore and middle fingers and the position of his thumb level with the first joint of his forefinger.

 

Also, the abbreviated form of h in the 2nd plate and the plates with the alphabets on don't have letters like J or W, because I don't think the Spanish language had (or has) those letters in it):

 

http://i.imgur.com/38Z5BHg.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/EBEvVLt.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/7bWXpQP.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/DYjIzRT.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/XLkMNIJ.jpg

Edited December 7, 2013 by Columba Livia

[dms525]

David (dms525) :

 

As others have mentioned, you're making great progress and I'm pleased that the guidelines are helping.

However, you say that your 'hand & eye are battling for control of the pen'

 

It occurs to me, that there's a point perhaps worth mentioning here. Although most text books advocate a slope of around 5 - 9 degrees, this is arguably, the most flexible of all scripts, and I've seen perfectly acceptable Italic at anywhere from 0 - 15 degrees. You may be trying to force your handwriting into an unnatural slope for your hand and mind.

 

As an exercise, I suggest that you handwrite a page at a comfortable speed without guidelines, and then try to guage your most natural slope which occurs most often within 0 - 15 degrees. This then becomes your slope for Italic and you can produce your guidelines accordingly. Always remenber that whatever slope you adopt, must be consistent throughout your writing. (At a greater slope than 15 degrees, Italic tends to change its character and become something else).

Finding your own natural slope, should make consistency much easier to achieve and maintain.

 

I would also suggest that, if possible, you produce your guideline sheets in a pale colour. No matter how fine the lines, a black grid isn't helpful as it interferes visually with the lettering. A pale grid is just as easy to follow and is far less intrusive. It's quite simple to reproduce your grids in a pale green or blue on a domestic inkjet printer - or any copyshop can do the job.

It really is worth persevering with the guidelines.

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Ken

 

Thanks again Ken, especially for your suggestions.

 

I have read many times that the slant of letters tends to increase with the writing speed. I think that is permissible, as long as the slope is consistent in any one piece of work, isn't it?

 

I think my biggest problem with slope was that, at any speed, the ascenders on my d's and the descenders on my p's tended to have a greater slope than that of other letters. Also, my initial minuscules in words tend to be more upright. These are examples of the regular irregularity in my hand on which you remarked earlier. This does seem to be improving with more attention. Your suggestion that I try to find my natural slope at any given speed will be pursued. I will work on samples of my formal italic and of my cursive italic.

 

David