Twsbi Diamond 580 Black Rosegold Fountain Pen

[Drone]

Hi, David in Jakarta again...

 

I received the replacement nib for my 580RG today. Here's how it came packaged from TWSBI in Taipei:

 

 

It looks like it cost TWSBI NT$ 75.00 to send the letter with tracking from Taipei to Jakarta. That's about $2.50 USD. It took about 8 days to arrive. On the back is a custom's declaration for $1 USD. There was no tax or duty required on the receiving end.

 

The nib survived the trip, but I think that was rather lucky. There isn't enough padding or support for the nib in my opinion - certainly not enough for handling by government-run mail systems in the 3rd-world.

 

I pulled the nib unit from the 580 and then pulled the nib and feed out of the nib unit itself. This was the first time I pulled the nib and feed out of the nib unit. The nib and feed came out with a bit of pulling - but they were easy enough to replace.

 

Here is the SURPRISE I found on the nib inside the nib unit (see pictures below). The nib was corroding INSIDE the nib unit. Actually it looks more like a cross between corrosion and staining.

 

This stuff on the nib is not due to dry or caked-on ink. As always, the pen was thoroughly cleaned and flushed until there was no more indication of ink before I took the pen out of of rotation. I never let ink dry out in a pen.

 

This crud CANNOT be cleaned off the nib - at least not without taking the rose gold plating off the nib with it.

 

 

 

Above is a picture of the bottom of the stained/corroded nib. This nasty stuff does NOT come off without damaging the rose-gold colored plating.

 

 

 

And above is the top of the stained/corroded nib. You can see where the staining on the top is only where the nib is inside the nib unit. But the corrosion was migrating between the tines and progressing on to the visible portion of the top of the nib. That's when I noticed the problem and contacted TWSBI.

 

In the future, when I clean the 580RG, the nib and feed are coming out every time. I do not trust the plating on this rose gold tone nib at all.

 

I am not using any sort of troublesome ink. I would say the most permanent ink I have used in my 580RG is Pilot/Namiki Blue - which is a semi-permanent ink and has always been very well behaved in my other pens.

 

Another mildly troublesome ink I have used in the 580RG is Diamine Bilberry. In-fact the staining looks a little purple-ish like Bilberry, but that may be just the way the rose gold taints things. Bilberry has some inclusions that leave a sheen on some papers. I am careful not to let Bilberry dry out in any pen.

 

Billberry wasn't a good match for the 580RG in my opinion. After being capped and in my pocket for an hour or two, Bilberry would write with a red-ish sheen at first then settle down to its normal blue-purple color after a couple of lines of writing. I only used Bilberry in the 580RG for one fill.

 

Obviously I mostly use blue inks in this pen. The other blue-ish inks I used in the 580RG were less troublesome than Pilot/Namiki Blue or Diamine Biilberry - such as MB Blue, Sheaffer's Skrip Blue, Noodler's Eel blue, Eel Turquoise, and PR DC Supershow Electric Blue, to name a few.

 

I did send an Email to Ms. Shih and Speedy at TWSBI informing them of my findings today and attached high resolution photographs.

 

In the end, I have been pleased with TWSBI's response in this matter. I just wish I knew more about how wide-spread this problem is and what, if anything, is going to be done about it.

 

Best Regards, David

 

 

[Drone]

A brief update: I got a reply from Ms. Shih at TWSBI (Taipei) regarding the pictures of my corroded/stained 580RG nib. For what it's worth, here it is:

 

 

Hello David,

Thanks for your e-mail and photo, due to each nib before delivery we did use ink to do writing test, after test it, we only flush by water, do not separate the nib, feeder & feeder holder that caused have ink remain, some ink us corrosive the plating after certain usage.

 

This can be read many ways. But IMO it cannot be read in any way as describing what TWSBI is going to do about this obvious plating problem. In the mean time, I see the White TWSBI 580 with Rose Gold has hit the Distributors (e.g., Goulet). Good luck with that one!

[gclyn]

+1 for me for the Black and Rose Gold...I think it is an elegant look...I too was too late at by the time I went to the Goulet site, all sold out. Will wait for new stock...for the looks and quality...it's a great buy.

[Tessy Moon]

I love the look of the new white mini in rose gold. But I am concerned with the problems the rose gold has been demonstrating in some people's pens mentioned here.

 

Does anyone know if the white one has been updated or changed in some way to prevent the same negative effects?

 

If anyone has the white rose gold pen, please keep us updated if you experience some of the same problems. (Although I truly hope no problems occur!)

[Drone]

I love the look of the new white mini in rose gold. But I am concerned with the problems the rose gold has been demonstrating in some people's pens mentioned here.

 

Does anyone know if the white one has been updated or changed in some way to prevent the same negative effects?

 

If anyone has the white rose gold pen, please keep us updated if you experience some of the same problems. (Although I truly hope no problems occur!)

 

In my experience TWSBI has not even acknowledged a problem exists, much less offer a general solution.

 

Given my very real problem with the "Rose Gold" plating on the 580's nib - unless TWSBI addresses this issue openly, I will not be buying another of their products with this colored finish.

 

But keep in mind - I represent only one user, and (thanks primarily to TWSBI's silence) we have no idea about how many of these pens have been sold, and how many have appeared with plating problems.

 

To be fair, in my example TWSBI did stand by their product by sending me a replacement nib. So if you want to take a chance that the problem is rare, and depend on TWSBI's good Customer Service if there is a problem - that would be a reasonable approach provided you are not logistically challenged (as I am) when it comes to returning the pen or the shipping of replacement parts..

[Tessy Moon]

Thank you Drone for your feedback!

 

I am in the US so returning a pen wouldn't be too difficult for me. And I would most likely purchase it through Goulet because I have had awesome experience with them. I am concerned about the longevity of the pen however; there are only so many times you can return something for a replacement.

 

I have heard that others have not had this problem at all on their rose gold pens, so it seems to be only certain pens or other varying factors that seem to cause this. (humidity, a person's acidity level, leaving the pen wet, etc. are a few of the reasons I have heard)

 

I wonder if washing and then immediately hand drying all the rose gold parts would help make a difference? I like the look of the pen and so have hopes that if I were to take good enough care of it, the pen will not have the same problems. But at this point we don't have enough data to really examine every incident of this issue and all its causes.

 

It's also a challenge because often times if something works well we don't always hear about that. People are more prone to talking about stuff that goes wrong than the the things that work alright. But then there may be more incidents than we are aware of perhaps through twsbi trying to keep people quiet about it. I really don't know what to conclude if that is the case; it would be sad indeed.

[OakIris]

Still no response to my question about the plating problem on TWSBI's Facebook page; I don't expect there will be one at this point. I know they don't have time to respond to every comment, but I thought this one might rate a response, if only to protect their reputation as having stellar customer service and quickly taking care of problems.

 

It is obvious that the plating on at least some of the pens is very thin; it is not just wearing off from use, if just the ink is "eating" through it.

Maybe a new thread specifically about the rose gold corrosion problem needs to be started so that we can have a better idea of how many pens are having the problem. I will certainly start one asking about it if I get to the point where I have the $$ to buy the rose gold Mini....

 

Here is an article on eBay about the care of plated jewelry that has some pertinence; among other things, it does discuss how humidity - from the air or from sweat - can thin out plating, and that even certain medications that the owner takes can cause a problem with the plating. http://www.ebay.com/gds/Plated-Jewelry-Care-Tips-/10000000176245688/g.html In reference to the medications that might cause a problem, this phrase stood out for me, and I wonder if it is true in general about rose gold plating:

 

 

 

this holds specially true for rose tone plating

 

No chemicals should be used to clean plating; does make one wonder if rose gold plating is the best thing to use for a pen nib that is often/constantly in contact with moisture and chemicals - the inks we use..... I haven't read anything to indicate that gold plated - not rose gold plated - nibs have a similar problem, so perhaps "regular" gold plating is more resistent.

 

Holly

Edited August 18, 2014 by OakIris

[Drone]

@Tessy Moon

Unlike some other reports in this thread, I have not had a problem with the "Rose Gold" colored plating on my 580RG clip or cap band - yet. But as I have reported here, my example of this pen has suffered serious plating problems on the nib.

As for fully disassembling and cleaning the pen often, especially the nib; I do not see this as a viable long-term solution. The nib and feed are friction-fit in the nib-unit itself, which can be removed (unscrewed) separately. A friction-fit nib and feed being repeatedly removed from and re-inserted into the nib unit will only last so long before the friction-fit becomes worn. This is one reason why nib-units (nibs and feeds that unscrew together) exist - so repeatedly having to remove the nib and feed are not needed.

If you don't have one already, get a decent "Bulb-Syringe" from your local pharmacy or from Goulet Pens. If you unscrew the nib unit itself (which holds the nib and feed) from the section, a good flush with the bulb-syringe will help with cleaning the nib unit without having to disassemble the nib unit every time.

Here's a link to the $3.95 USD bulb-syringe at Goulet Pens. There's a video on the Goulet page as well:

www.gouletpens.com/Goulet_Bulb_Syringe_2oz_p/gpc-bulbsyringe.htm

I DO recommend that when you first receive your new TWSBI pen you thoroughly disassemble the pen and clean it (including disassembling the nib unit itself). It seems that TWSBI tests every pen that goes out from production, but they do not thoroughly clean the nib unit after the factory test. That is very bad in my opinion as the ink they test with will sit in the nib unit and eventually dry-out.

Take my experience with my 580RG with grain of salt. This is not because I'm generally biased against TWSBI - but because I am just a user example of ONE.

Unfortunately, we do not know what percentage of TOTAL 580RG users are experiencing similar plating problems. Only TWSBI can shed real light on that, and to-date they have refused to address this subject. TWSBI Distributors (e.g. Goulet Pens) may have more information about these problems, but as Distributors they are obviously constrained from making public comments.

So, what do I think you should you do?...

If you really like one of the Rose Gold colored TWSBI pens, then I say Go For It!

Consider:

TWSBI will stand by the product (from my experience). Plus, you can't do better in terms of customer support with the likes of Goulet Pens. Also because you are based in the U.S., the pen will be easy to return to either TWSBI USA or Goulet Pens.

I simply recommend you keep an eye on the nib plating (from my experience). Don't disassemble the nib unit for every cleaning, but use a bulb-syringe and do take the nib unit apart for a thorough cleaning and inspection every so-often - and Certainly if you are going to take the pen out of use for a while. That is what I plan to do.

I would also avoid any known troublesome inks in this pen. For the time being, I'm going to stick with only the mildest well-behaved inks.

Lastly, if you do buy a Rose Gold TWSBI product (580RG or the newer White Mini-RG), do let us know about your experience; especially if you have a problem.

Good Luck, David

[Drone]

Hi Holly,

Real "Rose Gold" can be as much as 50% copper (12K). The copper content gives the alloy its "Rose" color.

Rose Gold is known to be troublesome when it comes into contact with anything but mild acids and bases. I have read that Zinc may even be added if more copper is used in the alloy to turn the color back to a more yellow color - and this only makes the Rose Gold finish less robust.

So, Rose Gold is not as robust as "normal" gold due to (at least) the copper content. Therefore, I agree. Strictly from a material science standpoint, Rose Gold may not be a good choice for a fountain pen nib which may be in constant contact with inks having acidic or alkaline pH..

But the Rose Gold story doesn't end there...

I have done some cursory searches about this "Rose Gold Plating" on the Web. It seems that this Rose Gold stuff on the likes of costume jewelry actually has no gold in it at all! But I could not find out just what the "fake" Rose Gold stuff consists of.

Of-course we have no idea what TWSBI is using in their "Rose Gold" formulation. So unless someone reverse-engineers the pen's plating, further speculation is impossible.

I have a pen with a gold (not Rose Gold) plated steel nib made by Bock (Germany) that is at least six years old. That pen is in constant rotation. Over the years, many types of ink have been through that pen and to-date there is not one spot of staining or corrosion on the nib; even underneath the nib.

 

Thanks for the interesting ebaY link.

 

Best Regards, David

[OakIris]

The amount of copper that is used in Rose Gold plating explains why the "TWSBI rot" has a greenish tinge to it; thank you for that info, David. It may not be a viable solution, and perhaps the combination would not be as aesthetically pleasing, but I suppose you can always replace the rose gold nib/feed unit with one of the steel nib/feed units available for the regular 580 - or Mini, if your RG Mini has the rot (which has yet to be reported, but it has only been available for a little more than a week.) That way you can avoid the possibility of the plating on the nib corroding. This won't help, obviously, if the corrosion is on the RG plated bands or clips. No solution there; guess you just have to live with it, or maybe get one replacement from TWSBI, then you are probably on your own again.

 

Of course, the ideal thing would be that you are one of the lucky ones whose pens do not display this corrosion; from the lack of widespread reports of the plating problem, it would seem that it is more likely that you will be one of lucky ones than not, but it is up to you as to whether or not you are willing to take that slim risk. For many of us, me included, paying $70 + shipping for a pen is not considered pocket change, so getting an imperfect pen is painful to both spirit and wallet! And adding on the expense ($20-24) of a steel nib to replace the rotting RG nib might not be doable.

 

So, wait and see? Or leap in and hope for the best?

 

I will be waiting for reviews/reports on the white RG Mini and hope that the plating issue does not occur with this model.

 

Holly

[siovale]

Just, just bought the black and rose gold one and will ink it with Pilot black ink after I post this. The pen is gorgeous and with the black ink will look as beautiful as Extremely's Rare's one in the posted picture. Tried the medium nib before buying it and it writes really well.

 

However, after reading about this pen here, I wonder if I made the right decision...

Edited March 5, 2015 by siovale

[ScienceChick]

I have the 580 Rose Gold and the white Mini Rose Gold - no plating issues to date. The Mini is 8 months old and has been inked continuously since I got it, the 580 around 5 months. I hope I haven't just jinxed myself.

[Tessy Moon]

I have had the twsbi mini in white and rose gold for 5 months inked continuously (with plenty of healthy cleanings in between of course) and I have not had any problems either. Yay!

It is a lovely pen and one of my absolute favorites.

[MFlick819]

Currently deciding between the 580RG or an Orange 580AL. Are people still seeing problems with the nib plating on the Rose Gold?

 

Slightly worried about it looking through this thread.

[ScienceChick]

In the last two days, Tessy and I posted that we've had no problems. I'm sure we're not alone.

[Drone]

Currently deciding between the 580RG or an Orange 580AL. Are people still seeing problems with the nib plating on the Rose Gold?

 

Slightly worried about it looking through this thread.

 

I am a person who had serious TWSBI Rose Gold nib plating problems in July-August 2014 and posted pictures of the nib corrosion here in this thread. As reported in Auguset 2014, TWSBI did send me a replacement nib at no charge.

 

After changing the nib, now some seven months after the incident I can report I have not seen nib corrosion like seen last year. However, I must say that I have limited the ink used in this pen to Pilot blue or blue-black only during this period. As before, the reset of the plating on the pen has not shown any signs of corrosion.

 

Keep in-mind, my pen is only a sample of one. However, given TWSBI's willingness to stand by their product, I say that if you really like the Rose Gold pen - then go for it.

 

Best Regards, David

[Mattman]

I've been using my 580RG for several months. No issues with it.

[FountainPages]

I just bought one from the Goulet's...I really like it so far as an EDC. As long as it doesn't crack like all the other TWSBI's I have had, it'll be great.

[MFlick819]

Anyone have a favorite ink to pair with this pen?

[Inkheart]

I like Noodlers' Black Swan in English Roses.

 

P.S. Months after my earlier post, my TWSBI Rose Gold and Black pen is still pristine!