Cards On The Table: Nibmeisters Are Far From Infallible.

[Pengrump]

I had a nib ground by one of the best of the best. Friends who tried it loved it. I couldn't make it lay down even the slightest trace of ink. This was done via internet communication and a form I filled out describing how I wrote--or at least how I felt/thought I wrote. Same excellent nibmeister ground a nib for me in person at a pen show. It was perfect, even better than perfect. He could see me hold the pen, write, etc. So he knew exactly what to do. Maybe if I'd been able to send him a video, the first nib would have been great. As it was, I sold that first pen to someone who loved it and used it a lot. I didn't recoup the money I'd paid for the pen or the grind. But I made someone happy, which was more important to me than recouping my investment.

 

There are certain things best done face to face. I happen to believe nib work is one of them. I suspect that after grinding a nib for me face to face, that nibmeister, if he remembered what he'd done, could do it again. But I don't know. I only have that one pen from him.

[Skyppere]

I am SHOCKED! SHOCKED to find that nibmeister's aren't perfect and that not all nibmeisters are created equal? Stop the presses!

skyppere.

[icevic]

My wife and I have a number of nibs customized by one of the "big four" pen masters. A few should be exact duplicates: same nib, same grind, similar model of pen. They are all different! They all write a little differently, flow is different, they are differently shaped. That's fine by me, I like them all, but inevitably some I like more than others. I wonder if they shouldn't all be the same? Is there that much difference in technique? Or did the nibs start out slightly different? Or is it variances in the feeds? Or is it all done freehand and there are inevitably differences?

[Indy_Pen_Dance]

My wife and I have a number of nibs customized by one of the "big four" pen masters. A few should be exact duplicates: same nib, same grind, similar model of pen. They are all different! They all write a little differently, flow is different, they are differently shaped. That's fine by me, I like them all, but inevitably some I like more than others. I wonder if they shouldn't all be the same? Is there that much difference in technique? Or did the nibs start out slightly different? Or is it variances in the feeds? Or is it all done freehand and there are inevitably differences?

 

Every nib that is done is freehand. There are certain steps that we follow to make the cuts that give us the shapes desired as the end result, but think a moment about what that really means from start to finish. The nib starts out as a flat piece of metal in the manufacturer's establishment. It undergoes how many different steps to become the beautiful gold/silver tipped instrument of your desire? Several, including the all important slitting and tipping steps. Have you ever taken two Pelikan's or other model pens that were the same exact model each with say a medium nib and examined each? Generally they aren't identical to start with because of the process just mentioned. But, let's just say that you manage to find two exactly identical nibs for the sake of this discussion.

 

Now a nibmeister, or nib worker takes these two pens to change them from a medium round nib to lets say a medium cursive italic nib. First, that individual has to make certain the tines are in alignment. That means holding the pens EXACTLY the same position and getting the tines on BOTH pens in EXACTLY the spots - side to side, up and down and the same amount of opening between the slits. Guys we are talking about a perfect distance of .001"/.025mm here and this is done visually. (Remember, this is just the first step). After this, the person working on the nibs has to the hold the nibs to a machine that is sitting at an angle (in some cases - other workers have other setups) at varying degrees for each cut to get the precise angle needed to make the end shape. For a cursive italic, that is NOT being taken down in size on the nib there are FIVE separate cuts and if you need to take the nib down in size that makes it Seven. All of this is done before you even add the process of smoothing out the cuts and rounding out the roughness that is left from grinding the material to get the shape desired. It is all done freehand.

 

I don't know anyone, not even the greatest of the greats that can do this to such an intense degree that it is going to be EXACTLY the same every single time they do it. I don't even know that it would be possible for it to be EXACT two times in a row - we are still talking about humans, not machines.

 

As long as the nibs are not stubs instead of a cursive italics or something similar and they provide you with and enjoyable writing experience, then I would say that nib worker has done what you requested. If you have a nib that you truly don't like, then you should be able to send that nib back (within a reasonable time frame) and have it tweaked. I know that I will, at times through the course of my time working in this field, send out nibs that just don't meet my clients hopes, expectations or dreams and I am always willing to tweak these nibs and get them where they need to be. Without a good nib, even the most beautiful pen isn't worth much.

 

Like you, Mike and I have several cursive italic nibs done by a great nibmeister on a variety of our Pelikan pens. They each have slight differences, but they are all still awesome cursive italic nibs.

[icevic]

 

Every nib that is done is freehand. There are certain steps that we follow to make the cuts that give us the shapes desired as the end result, but think a moment about what that really means from start to finish. The nib starts out as a flat piece of metal in the manufacturer's establishment. It undergoes how many different steps to become the beautiful gold/silver tipped instrument of your desire? Several, including the all important slitting and tipping steps. Have you ever taken two Pelikan's or other model pens that were the same exact model each with say a medium nib and examined each? Generally they aren't identical to start with because of the process just mentioned. But, let's just say that you manage to find two exactly identical nibs for the sake of this discussion.

 

Now a nibmeister, or nib worker takes these two pens to change them from a medium round nib to lets say a medium cursive italic nib. First, that individual has to make certain the tines are in alignment. That means holding the pens EXACTLY the same position and getting the tines on BOTH pens in EXACTLY the spots - side to side, up and down and the same amount of opening between the slits. Guys we are talking about a perfect distance of .001"/.025mm here and this is done visually. (Remember, this is just the first step). After this, the person working on the nibs has to the hold the nibs to a machine that is sitting at an angle (in some cases - other workers have other setups) at varying degrees for each cut to get the precise angle needed to make the end shape. For a cursive italic, that is NOT being taken down in size on the nib there are FIVE separate cuts and if you need to take the nib down in size that makes it Seven. All of this is done before you even add the process of smoothing out the cuts and rounding out the roughness that is left from grinding the material to get the shape desired. It is all done freehand.

 

I don't know anyone, not even the greatest of the greats that can do this to such an intense degree that it is going to be EXACTLY the same every single time they do it. I don't even know that it would be possible for it to be EXACT two times in a row - we are still talking about humans, not machines.

 

As long as the nibs are not stubs instead of a cursive italics or something similar and they provide you with and enjoyable writing experience, then I would say that nib worker has done what you requested. If you have a nib that you truly don't like, then you should be able to send that nib back (within a reasonable time frame) and have it tweaked. I know that I will, at times through the course of my time working in this field, send out nibs that just don't meet my clients hopes, expectations or dreams and I am always willing to tweak these nibs and get them where they need to be. Without a good nib, even the most beautiful pen isn't worth much.

 

Like you, Mike and I have several cursive italic nibs done by a great nibmeister on a variety of our Pelikan pens. They each have slight differences, but they are all still awesome cursive italic nibs.

Thank you for that detailed and exact answer.

 

I thought the nibs would all start out the same, but now that you mention it I can see how they would not be. I remember seeing a video on the 'tube showing how Pelikan nibs were manufactured and was surprised at the obviously high tolerances, certainly more than I expected - especially from Germans (sorry for the stereotyping).

 

And now that you point out the amount of hand work and "eyeballing" involved, it makes sense that there would be differences.

 

In no way was I unhappy with any of my custom nibs, nor did I imply that. Obviously I keep coming back for more! But they are all different, and I was surprised how much I could feel and see the differences.

 

As others have mentioned, it is very frustrating to spend $200 on a pen that just won't write right. For this hobby to grow, we need to be honest about that. We need to push our manufacturers to improve their factory offerings, and at the same time support the pen professionals who take the time to make things right by buying from them.

 

While I see that there are differences in the writing properties of the nibs I have tuned by the "big four", I can say that they are all precisely done and all deliver a high quality writing experience.

[Indy_Pen_Dance]

Thank you for that detailed and exact answer.

 

I thought the nibs would all start out the same, but now that you mention it I can see how they would not be. I remember seeing a video on the 'tube showing how Pelikan nibs were manufactured and was surprised at the obviously high tolerances, certainly more than I expected - especially from Germans (sorry for the stereotyping).

 

And now that you point out the amount of hand work and "eyeballing" involved, it makes sense that there would be differences.

 

In no way was I unhappy with any of my custom nibs, nor did I imply that. Obviously I keep coming back for more! But they are all different, and I was surprised how much I could feel and see the differences.

 

As others have mentioned, it is very frustrating to spend $200 on a pen that just won't write right. For this hobby to grow, we need to be honest about that. We need to push our manufacturers to improve their factory offerings, and at the same time support the pen professionals who take the time to make things right by buying from them.

 

While I see that there are differences in the writing properties of the nibs I have tuned by the "big four", I can say that they are all precisely done and all deliver a high quality writing experience.

You are very welcome. I didn't take your first post to imply that you were unhappy with your nibs, but I did see a very good teaching moment and I thank you for that opportunity!

 

I completely agree about the frustration level when buying a new pen and it doesn't perform to one's expectations. Using Pelikan (sorry guys) as an example - they put a large amount of iridium on the tips of their new fountain pens. I've been told by a reputable source that they do this because they believe they need to in order to make the pens write smoothly. We know this isn't necessary and it increases the size of the line one will get from the nib. These are good pens, but there have been more than a few folks that are close to "turned off" by the way the pen writes out of the box. We can fix that and most of us have, but it is a place where we have to educate and be honest with people so that we can keep this hobby alive for many generations to come.

 

Great points - and thanks again for bringing this up!

[SteveE]

Linda and Tim - Thank you so very much for this, a most interesting and enlightening post. Although I have sat with several of the best-known nib masters at shows and have nibs worked by others, I have learned even more from this very open and free exchange.

 

My own feeling is that I am lucky in that I have learned how to "tweak" my nibs so that if I have a nib shaped or ground by an specialist and it is not perfectly to my liking, 9 times out of 10 I can finish the job myself. When this happens, I am no less delighted than if said nib came back to me in a state of perfection. To mangle a saying of the late Frank Dubiel. . . "They're just nibs (pens)." If someone gets it 90% perfect and I can finish it, then I still have a nib that is perfect for me. In my accumulation of only about 100 or so pens, I have no commercial failures. I have some pens that have come to me with such nasty nibs that I won't even try to fix them, but none of the pens worked on by any specialist have ever been beyond repair. Maybe not perfect, but within my capabilities to finish.

 

I find it very reassuring to know that Linda and Tim have learned and will continue Richard's methods, now that Richard has reduced his retail nib working.

 

And Linda and Mike, maybe next time I'm in Zionsville we can meet for coffee. I try to get down (from Chicago) to visit Susan at Avalon once or twice a year - for the past 10 or 12 years.

[cbaytan]

It's a dilemma, FP preferences are very subjective things and the best way to get best reults from a nibmeister is sitting next to him when he is shaving the nıb and the feed, communicaiton with email or telephone just could be insufficent.

 

More-Flow-less flow,

More italic-Less italic,

Thicker line, thinner line,

Smoothness is not enough or enough already,

 

Those things you can only tell by after writing down coupla lines, otherwise nibmeister will do the way they think it is the best way..

 

IMO only with these kind of communication a customer can be 100% happy, otherwise he/she is taking chances in some extend anyway. Or at least I think like that.

[pelman]

My 2 cents:

 

I went to Atlanta pen show a couple of years back and I had mike masuyama work his magic on a few of my pens. Then I took out a MB 149 and Asked he that make it an italic nib. Mike asked me to write a few sentences as he observed me write. He asked me how long I had the pen for: 2 months was my reply. He asked that I use the pen daily for a while and then to consider a grind. More than 2 years later the nib is still not tweaked. Lesson for me - understand my pen and writing habits and then if I wanted to alter I had a solid knowledge of my wants and I would be able to communicate this to the nib technician.

 

Mike refused business because he wanted me to be happy. I will happily go back to him for any future work.

 

As has been stated, communication and knowing your needs and wants for that certain pen are key in getting what you want.