Modified Kurrent Script Attempt

[Estefa]

This is something I am working on at the moment. It is based on german kurrent script, but altered with the hope that it might be readable for people who actually can't read kurrent (which honestly includes me). I am planning on using this script in a job and I want to achieve a look that says "19th century letter / document style" (or even older) but with the benefit of being legible.

I am posting one sheet with every other line in "original" (1.) and modified (2.) style, one attemt at an alphabet, and a poem. Then I post one original alphabet (which i think is heavily influenced by english roundhand) and one original document (which I think is older than the alphabet because I guess it is still written with a quill; it is also not so much slanted).

So I am really, really curious about what you guys think of it. In terms of aesthetics I am still working on it of course - need to refine the capitals above all, decide which degree of slant I am going to use etc. - but I think one can already tell at this point if this is 1) decipherable, 2) aesthetically pleasing/interesting. So - I would be glad for some response!

(written with a Unique Obliques pen holder, a vintage Brause 76 Rose nib and iron gall ink)

Stefanie

 

[caliken]

  On 10/21/2013 at 10:31 AM, Estefa said:

This is something I am working on at the moment. It is based on german kurrent script, but altered with the hope that it might be readable for people who actually can't read kurrent (which honestly includes me). I am planning on using this script in a job and I want to achieve a look that says "19th century letter / document style" (or even older) but with the benefit of being legible.

 

I think that you'ved largely achieved your objective.

It looks like kurrent but isn't, and is now legible to unfamiliar eyes.

Once I'd realised that ther small c looks like an i I was able to read the second line of your examples easily.

A couple of words in the poem give me difficulty, but otherwise it's fine.

I would use the alternative D as it looks ike a V and I would change the letter c which looks like an i.

An interesting project and a successful outcome IMHO.

Ken

Edited October 21, 2013 by caliken

[Estefa]

Thank you very much for your reply! Yes, the c is problematic - I will try to find a substitute for that c which is really confusing. Concerning the D I saw the same - it's like a strange V. So I will use one of the modified forms.

Thanks again!!

Stefanie

[Columba Livia]

The first thing I noticed is that not all of the shades in the caps are on the same slant:

 

http://i.imgur.com/dDzoFJu.jpg

 

If you compare this to the example you were working from, the shades there are on the same slant:

 

http://i.imgur.com/JNYCtAB.jpg

 

Do you point the pen in the same direction as the slant of the writing? Whether or not you are using an oblique holder, good shaded writing needs to have the pen pointing in the direction of the slant, like this:

 

http://i.imgur.com/xA8aeiw.jpg

 

Keep the slant line pointing to the centre of your body and you'll always be pulling the pen towards yourself and giving shades the same slant.

 

The second thing I noticed was the great thickness of the shades in your writing. The shades in the set of caps you're working from are much thinner and that makes the tapering of the shade more noticeable and it's the tapering of shades which makes them visually interesting. Starting off a monoline, gradually growing larger and then shrinking again. I think thinner shades would greatly increase the beauty and elegance of your writing by making curves and the weighting of shades more noticeable.

Edited October 21, 2013 by Columba Livia

[MisterBoll]

Your writing is lovely. I'm enchanted by the script.

[mboschm]

I can read Kurrent, but I'm lousy at writing it.

[Estefa]

@ Columba Livia: I didn't work after the "copperplate-ish" alphabet. This is a sample I found only after I had written what I posted – sorry if maybe that was confusing. I just showed it to demonstrate that there is not "the kurrent", that there were very different forms in use over the centuries. There were also forms that have no slant at all and were written monoline or with a broad nib.

That is why I wrote that at the moment I am still working on the capitals, the slant etc.! I am fully aware of the diverse inconsistencies. The sample I was using as a model, but more in terms of general letter forms and less in a sense of exact mimicking was this:

and in terms of ascender-x-height-descender ratio this

– but I altered this also because I thought it was too extreme. Here are some other historical examples of handwritten kurrent – mixed with "latin" letters which were used for names, dates etc., and some form of blackletter (the first of the models above is a font, with the second I am not sure):

What I really wanted to know at this point is if it is readable. But thanks for taking your time to reply anyway!

@MisterBoll: Thank you! I am glad you like this. Still a lot to do though!

@mboschm: I think I can't write it very good (I have to look up letters all the time, but I think reading is even more difficult … especially with really old documents:

Stefanie

 

[Columba Livia]

  On 10/22/2013 at 8:49 AM, Estefa said:

The sample I was using as a model, but more in terms of general letter forms and less in a sense of exact mimicking was this:

 

Ah, I see now. That is not a good example to use as a model because it is really poor quality. I'll illustrate why by comparing some of those letters with some letters by the 19th century penman George Becker. First of all, with the I and J, note how Becker's I and J are compound curves: they have a graceful undulating quality which makes them look almost alive. In contrast the other ones are dull and graceless straight lines:

 

http://i.imgur.com/ZWFPp3h.jpg

B and C: the other model has a strange loop instead of a dot going out of B and the C is all wonky:

 

http://i.imgur.com/90vhRmt.jpg

Becker's T is like a waving frond of grass in the wind: it looks alive and moving! The other T is a monotonous straight line without any good qualities to it:

 

http://i.imgur.com/HvlWgSq.jpg

I honestly cannot see any good qualities to that other model.

 

 

 

http://i.imgur.com/CcDjZty.jpg

 

http://i.imgur.com/S6X9XF3.jpg

 

 

Edited October 22, 2013 by Columba Livia

[Estefa]

I am acutely aware that the first model I was using as a reference is quite ugly. That is why I pointed out in my first post that I am not done with the aethetic side of this attemt and why I was looking for more / better sample alphabets – like the one I posted also in the first post (and obviously you did find some equally nice example).

Again I want to say that overall readability was my first goal in this project. Information / tutorials about this script are not as widely available as for, say copperplate or italic or such. And most of the information there is is more palaeographically than calligraphically motivated. But as I know also of very pleasing historical handwritten examples (not alphabets) I was interested in knowing more of this, and in learning it, and so I was looking at this first step for a simple "how-to" alphabet. Would have been better of course if I would have had a superiour model alphabet from the beginning.

I hope this is a little bit clearer now.

Stefanie

[HDoug]

This is a fascinating thread. I love all the examples of a script that my brain says I should be able to read but fails in the attempt. The Not Kurrent indeed makes me think I can read kurrent. I'm so easy to fool, but loving it. And wanting to see more.

 

Doug

[Czechmauseritis]

To my eye it looks like Suetterlin Schrift though I'm sure kurrent is related. To me I can read it very well! It's very nicely done. I've been writing my personal journal in Suetterlin using a Pelikan 140 with a semi flex nib. It's good practice to write it everyday with a nice pen. I've found the movements are a little more automatic when you get out the Calligraphy nibs. Good job! I hadn't seen anyone writing in this until now!!

[nekosan]

Yes, I can read the Not Kurrent. It's quite lovely; at first glance I thought it was unreadable, then it just all clicked and flowed together.

[Lyander0012]

This looks amazing! Haha, it's a noble undertaking, developing a new cursive of your own, not to mention fun at the same time. While it took my eyes about a minute to adjust to reading your modified Kurrent, but it was fairly easy afterwards. For the most part, your "u" gave me a bit of a start as it looked a bit like an "n", and the uppercase "K"s and "R"s confused me a bit. That aside, it looks like an excellent cursive that's both easily usable and attractive to look at.

 

Cheers, and best of luck with your project!

 

Kevin

[Estefa]

Thank you all for your replies! I am glad that you seem to be able to read this and also to find it interesting. I am still doing a lot of research and try to find more information. I would very much like to find some formal alphabet from earlier than 1800. Well, the internet is a big place so I just go on

@HDoug: Thanks and I will keep you updated when I made some progress … I know this effect that I think I should be able to read it but can't. This is made worse by the fact that certain kinds of words in a text were written in "latin" letters (Italic), which are of course readable, and so it's very confusing. I think the same was done in some english documents, where the main body of the text was written in Secretary Hand but some names, places, dates, quotations from foreign languages in Cancellaresca / Italic.

@ Czechmauseritis: as far as I understand Sütterlin is a late form of Kurrent which was developed for use in schools, written with a tool that was simpler to master for pupils than the pointed pen which was used in the late 19th, early 20th century, and upright and monoline as a result of that tool - the "Redisfeder", I don't know how the english translation. This a kind of a round plate nib, looks like this:

(taken from this wikipedia article: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schreibfeder)

So this was meant for children (the nib doesn't catch in the paper) and people were encouraged to use later a broad nib and to develop their personal style out of this "Schulausgangsschrift" (meaning a script for kids as a basis for a personal handwriting style). I am sure you know that as you write it but I thought maybe others might be interested! Here is some more about this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sütterlin

and here about Kurrent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kurrent

I am sure we would all be delighted to see a sample of your Sütterlin! With semi flex you mean a pointed nib? I am mostly writing with dip nibs so I don't know very much about fountain pens (I have one Waterman with a "normal" nib I guess, which is lovely for everyday writing but not for calligraphy).

@ nekosan: Thank you very much for the friendly feedback!

@ Kevin: I don't know about noble - I just like the look of some of these old letters etc. and wanted to try to simulate this with the bonus of readabilty. Yes, the u's are basically identical to the n's, the only difference is that you make this horizontal little curve over the u. Also the original e is crazy as it is the same, only a bit narrower than the n / u. You can imagine that with a sloppy writer this fastly becomes very hard to read even if you can read it! - Thanks for pointing to the K and R. I am not so happy with that K either, needs some work (like most of the capitals).

Stefanie

[RuiFromUK]

Hi Stefanie,

 

Thank you for showing this script to us.

 

Just showed it to my wife and I am now tempted to try it myself.

[Lyander0012]

This isn't much of a help, but it's regarding the K and R thing; it's an issue I have with my daily handwriting as well, so I just thought I'd chip in with my fraction of 0.02c

Anyway, I'm trying my best to develop my handwriting into one that utilizes as little lifts as possible, which is why all my capitals are essentially convoluted single lines. Due to the general structure of my "K" and "R" being essentially the same, there is sometimes a bit of hardship in differentiating the two. This is especially the case when I'm writing in a hurry.

 

I've found that making the tail (not sure if that's the right word for it; I'm referring to the bit that precedes what would be the vertical bar in the K or R in a printed alphabet) a convex curve with Rs and a steeply ascending line with Ks. For some odd reason, that helps me make sure that I can properly form the rest of the letter. No idea why.

[Estefa]

  On 10/25/2013 at 12:14 PM, RuiFromUK said:

Hi Stefanie,

 

Thank you for showing this script to us.

 

Just showed it to my wife and I am now tempted to try it myself.

 

I am glad you like this! And if you do learn it, show us some of your writing please

 

Stefanie

Edited October 28, 2013 by Estefa

[Estefa]

  On 10/25/2013 at 3:40 PM, Lyander0012 said:

This isn't much of a help, but it's regarding the K and R thing; it's an issue I have with my daily handwriting as well, so I just thought I'd chip in with my fraction of 0.02c

 

Anyway, I'm trying my best to develop my handwriting into one that utilizes as little lifts as possible, which is why all my capitals are essentially convoluted single lines. Due to the general structure of my "K" and "R" being essentially the same, there is sometimes a bit of hardship in differentiating the two. This is especially the case when I'm writing in a hurry.

 

I've found that making the tail (not sure if that's the right word for it; I'm referring to the bit that precedes what would be the vertical bar in the K or R in a printed alphabet) a convex curve with Rs and a steeply ascending line with Ks. For some odd reason, that helps me make sure that I can properly form the rest of the letter. No idea why.

 

I am not so sure if I understand what you mean, because for my eyes in a more "usual" alphabet the K and R are less related than the R and P – and B:

 

 

All share the capital stem in a simple grotesk font, but in a "copperplate-ish" script the stem of P and R needs to be shorter to allow for the loop on the top. Except that the Kurrent R looks different again because the loop comes from behind the letter. So definitely this needs more thought and work

 

Well thanks for taking the time to think and post about this!

 

Stefanie

[Lyander0012]

I'm on mobile at the moment, so I can't make much of a reply right now. Anyway, I'll upload a sample as soon as I get back on my PC.

 

Cheers!

[sidthecat]

What an interesting thread! I've been fascinated with the eccentricities of English Secretary Hand, which has many similarities to (and perhaps an ancestral relationship with) Kultur. This accounts for the backhanded loop in my lower-case "d". The backwards quality appealed to me perhaps because I'm left-handed and can't really write in a proper script. I may have to give this a try.