Montblanc Permanent Black

[jagmitra]

Hello people ! I was wondering if mixing the new permanent blue and new permanent black in a ratio of 7:3 respectively would create a full proof blue black I am very new to all this so any help will be really appreciated !

[theverdictis]

Definitely blue for me! Thanks for the great review

 

Ben

[Algester]

sorry to resurrect but are the permanent inks clean friendly I mean do they clean on converters like a Pilot CON-70 (I know this cartridge is hard to clean) easily, and are they particle inks like Sailor particle inks and Platinum Carbon, I might but it for the bottle... and perhaps inks... who knows... I know I like the boot bottle

[BlazeOrangeGuy]

sorry to resurrect but are the permanent inks clean friendly I mean do they clean on converters like a Pilot CON-70 (I know this cartridge is hard to clean) easily, and are they particle inks like Sailor particle inks and Platinum Carbon, I might but it for the bottle... and perhaps inks... who knows... I know I like the boot bottle

 

I have been testing this ink now for about three weeks. I have found that it, at least in my experience, is a well behaved ink that works well on many papers and it is a very black ink. I have also found it to be extremely waterproof. It is not as lubricated as Sailor's Kiwa Guro, but it is lubricated enough for a comfortable write in a fine nib.

 

I was reticent to place it in my Montblanc 145 due to other's complaints about it slowing down the feed of their MB pens and wanted to test it out in a pen that I could take the nib and feed apart and inspect after a cleaning. So I placed MB Permanent Black in a Delta Serena and used it for two weeks. At the end of two weeks, I removed the converter and did a squeeze bulb flush of the nib/section with warm water only. I squeezed one bulb's worth of water through the nib unit. I then dried the nib and disassembled. I did not find any residue on the bottom of the nib or in the feed. I imagine that if one were to religiously flush their pen every two to three weeks with warm water when using MB Permanent Black, they will not have any problem with MBPB clogging up their feeds. I have not had time to do a long-term study at present. It is a permanent ink, and religious cleansing regimens are part of the territory... I keep a log in my pen carrying case and it reminds me when I need to flush certain pens.

 

This is compared to my testing of Sailor's Kiwa Guro and Sei Boku. Both of these inks are beautiful and I love them, but with the same testing parameters outlined above, I have found that both of Sailor's Nano inks do leave a slight residue on the bottom of the nib and on the feed. This residue is easily removed by rubbing with one's finger, however disassembly is required to get all remnants of these inks out. This is no cause for me to stop using them - however I relegate them to pens that I can disassemble easily. This is just a case of knowing your inks and pens well.

 

I have not tested Montblanc Permanent Blue.

 

I am curious as to the reports of MBPB not being waterproof by some above - perhaps mis-formulations? Water does not cause any lifting of ink off of the page in my testing of MBPB. This is not to say other's experiences are invalid - I am just wondering what are the variables that cause the different experience? In any case, what is in my bottle of MBPB is a true winner. I plan on using it for years to come. I hope other's experiences are just as rewarding.

[Algester]

ahh ok good good but in that case since the CON-70 is a hard converter to open at this point (technically still brand new and the threading glue does not want to budge) I might chuck it in to my Sailor Lecoule huh... that or I can get a Con-50 which I believe is disassembly friendly

[Gregjam]

I have tried the Permanent Black in a number of pens all with the same unsatisfactory result. I used a Hero 360, Nexus and Cross Solo. In all cases it was very hard to get started and skipped at all but the slowest of writing speeds. I had purchased it to use in a very good 2nd hand MB146 fearing possible fouling of the feeds but used Midnight Blue instead (although that too resulted in flow problems). All pens now have Hero 234 carbonic black and all work well which tends to point to the ink being the problem. Does it need diluting and can this be done. The ink was new and sourced from a reputable supplier so should be representative.

I have since also put the Hero ink into my MB and it has transformed the pen into a very pleasing tool to use. Before buying the MB pen I used to use MB ink in my Cross pen with great success.

To anyone planning to use this ink I would recommend caution, regular cleans and if you have, use a pen that you can easily dismantle the nib to clean the feeds.

With such positive reviews I am wondering if I have either got a bad batch or am I doing something wrong although it does sound as if I am not alone in my experience.

[jhataway]

Hello,

 

i just got a pack of the black cartridges, and this time the ink is waterproof. So, whatever the earlier problems I experienced were, they must have been resolved. Probably just a bad batch.

 

Jim

[jhataway]

Hello again,

 

Well, the black is partially waterproof. When I tried it in a pen having a broad wet nib, and let it dry, about half washed off. The same pen loaded with Noodler's bulletproof black had no ink removed under the same wash. The paper was Rhodia. Back to Noodler's. At least I can use the cartridges refilled with Noodler's. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

[gauge_boson]

Good day everyone

 

I have owned a Mont Blanc 146 for over 25 years and, until the beginning of 2013, had always used ordinary Mont Blanc black ink. Having somewhat 'damp hands' I used to easily smudge dry ink just by handling the paper, so I decided to try 'permanent' blue-black in the newly-formulated Midnight Blue.

 

I could not believe the transformation: no smudging, behaved impeccably even on cheap copier paper... I truly felt I had wasted 25 years of pen ownership under the old plain black MB ink.

 

A few weeks ago, I needed to order a new bottle of ink; to my horror, the Midnight Blue had been reformulated to 'non-permanent' and I was faced with the new Permanant Black.

 

I took the plunge and I have to say that I am bitterly disappointed!

 

Firstly, it treats copier paper like blotting paper. Secondly, even on my Clairefontaine 90gsm paper, I can easily smudge it just by wiping it with a dry paper towel; it NEVER seems to dry!

 

The slightest moisture and it runs. The joke is that if you run a sheet of paper under the tap half of the ink runs off and leaves just what has reacted with the paper, so if you just get a few spots of rain on a page you might as well run the sheet under water to wash off the mess.

 

Lastly, if all of this was not bad enough, this horrible stuff is like having carbon paper between the sheets of your notebook: even though the bleed-through is not bad, if you write on the other side of the paper the ink on the other side acts as carbon paper and soils the sheet underneath. It is a bit like writing with a pencil in that respect.

 

Why on earth did Mont Blanc change to these two horrible permanent inks? They had only just reformulated the Midnight Blue and it was GREAT!

 

What is worse, is that it seems that shortly after my 'conversion' to Midnight Blue in about May 2013, Mont Blanc chose to discontinue the ink, so two and a half years on I cannot buy it anymore. Even if I could, being IG ink it has a shelf life.

 

Does anyone know of an equal to the last IG formula Midnight Blue?

 

Thank you for reading my sad rant ;-)

[The Good Captain]

A mix of Aurora Blue:Aurora Black at about 3:1 in that order, gives a wonder, simi;ar colour, with a surprising amount of water-resistance, considering it's not iron gall.

[Tanzanite]

I got this ink last week, and have to say I'm badly dissappointed. The ink I have (Package Looks exactly like the one in this thread, permanent black, purchased in the montblanc boutique) is not permanent or waterresistant at all. Even a day later it smears at the slightest touch, water liquifies it. That means I can't use it with watercolors or anything, I think its not different to lets say Pelikan Edelstein Onyx or any other ink. I thought it would be waterproof, but its just usual black ink. Is this how its supposed to be? I tried it with copypaper, clairefontaine, drawing paper, aqua colorpaper, sketchbooks and notepads, let it dry 24hrs, no water resistency. Everywhere the same. I dont get it, maybe I'm too stupid to use it. Is there a trick?

This is my experience too. I was going to use it for drawing but that is not possible.

[storyteller]

Good day everyone

 

I have owned a Mont Blanc 146 for over 25 years and, until the beginning of 2013, had always used ordinary Mont Blanc black ink. Having somewhat 'damp hands' I used to easily smudge dry ink just by handling the paper, so I decided to try 'permanent' blue-black in the newly-formulated Midnight Blue.

 

I could not believe the transformation: no smudging, behaved impeccably even on cheap copier paper... I truly felt I had wasted 25 years of pen ownership under the old plain black MB ink.

 

A few weeks ago, I needed to order a new bottle of ink; to my horror, the Midnight Blue had been reformulated to 'non-permanent' and I was faced with the new Permanant Black.

 

I took the plunge and I have to say that I am bitterly disappointed!

 

Firstly, it treats copier paper like blotting paper. Secondly, even on my Clairefontaine 90gsm paper, I can easily smudge it just by wiping it with a dry paper towel; it NEVER seems to dry!

 

The slightest moisture and it runs. The joke is that if you run a sheet of paper under the tap half of the ink runs off and leaves just what has reacted with the paper, so if you just get a few spots of rain on a page you might as well run the sheet under water to wash off the mess.

 

Lastly, if all of this was not bad enough, this horrible stuff is like having carbon paper between the sheets of your notebook: even though the bleed-through is not bad, if you write on the other side of the paper the ink on the other side acts as carbon paper and soils the sheet underneath. It is a bit like writing with a pencil in that respect.

 

Why on earth did Mont Blanc change to these two horrible permanent inks? They had only just reformulated the Midnight Blue and it was GREAT!

 

What is worse, is that it seems that shortly after my 'conversion' to Midnight Blue in about May 2013, Mont Blanc chose to discontinue the ink, so two and a half years on I cannot buy it anymore. Even if I could, being IG ink it has a shelf life.

 

Does anyone know of an equal to the last IG formula Midnight Blue?

 

Thank you for reading my sad rant ;-)

 

I too am going to have to look for a replacement for MB Midnight Blue.

 

RIP.... it was their best ink IMHO.

 

Rohrer & Klingner's Salix and Diamine's Registrars are both iron-gall, well respected blue-black inks albeit with different properties (colour, flow, etc) when compared to Midnight Blue. I shall purchase both and use the one that best suits my pens on an individual basis.

 

I do not know why the Midnight Blue ink was discontinued but have noticed the rather significant price hike that is now necessary to obtain a permanent ink from Montblanc (increased profit margin or ISO permanence approval?). There appears to be no advantage when it comes to maintenance, it is still necessary to respect the cleaning recommendations. Maybe some cheap cartridge feeds are prone to corrosion from iron gall inks, but that should not be the case with Montblanc pens, unless they have effected a change... That said, there have always been very acidic inks on the market (which are not iron-gall), so I cannot see this being the only reason for the change.

 

The non iron-gall permanent inks are all very expensive, no matter who makes them. They are all high maintenance.

 

Why bother with expensive ISO approval if cheap iron gall is sufficient for your needs?

[meiers]

I enjoy perrmanent black a lot. It's an intense, opaque black.

Edited March 3, 2016 by meiers

[Tanzanite]

My permanent black smudged after several weeks.

[Gloucesterman]

Just bought a bottle of Permanent Black and one of Permanent Blue. Based on the previous postings in this thread I am very interested as to what my results would be.

 

I am curious though. As the ink is specifically labelled "Permanent" it would seem to me that a simple writing sample that shows its lack of "permanency" would warrant a refund or new bottle from MB. Would this not be the case?

[Slider20]

So tempted, just nervous to put this one in my good pens

[lupulcelbun]

I have been using Montblancs Permanet Black in an 149 XF and it is exquisite. It is a deep black equal only to Kaweco Black Perl and Faber-Castell TG1.

It is unctuous and sharp even on cheap paper.

 

It is a heavy, oily ink. In a Kaweco Sport F it starts to skip the second day in.

It needs a wet pen, preferably piston. I am flushing it every other weekend.

[Gregjam]

I have persevered with and am now enjoying the Permanent Black. Part of the issues I was having was a Montblanc pen with a wide nib. I had terrible flow issues and eventually sent my pen to Greg Minuskin who worked his magic and totally transformed the pen. The nib it turns out had misaligned tines and had to be reground which was part of the problem. The biggest part as I understand it was the feed could not handle the amount of ink required by the wide nib. Apparently this is a common problem with the pens, all I know is that my Montblanc 144 is now a joy to use compared to a chore in the past. I also use the ink in a TWSBI with an italic nib and various other pens all of which have proven to have good flow. I use the ink when completing official documents and it benefits being used with good paper. It is not a one ink for all pens but rather one that used in the right circumstances works very well.

[FreddyF]

I'm a noob, so bear with me for a sec. I have a Mont Blanc Gaius Maecenas which I use daily. I like the pen and it always worked very well. Before I used mystery black ink and I was very happy with it. Now recently I bought permanent black, and it's horrible. The ink doesn't seem to flow properly, and it looks pretty poor, as if constantly writing with an almost empty pen. Now my question is what should I do? Throw away the ink and go back to the mystery black? Or maybe dilute the ink somewhat, but with what. Or should I get the pen looked at and maybe get a new nib? My current nib says AU750. Any ideas?

[MarkHanks]

Would it be a bad idea to mix Permanent Black and Permanent Blue at any ratio (say, 1:3) to make ourselves a Permanent Midnight Blue? It won't affect the result's permanance, would it?