Is This Really A Waterman?

[Sinistral1]

I bought this pen on eBay real cheap, suspecting that it might be a fake, but hoping I could use the nib to experiment with adding flex modifications. Sure doesn't look like any Waterman fountain pen I've yet seen, but I'm new to the pen world.

 

The clip has a "W" that looks legit, and "Waterman made in France" stamped in the cap band. The cap and barrel are not a solid color - instead are a two tone brown "chipped" design, very subtle - feels like lacquer over some kind of metal.

 

The section is probably not original. I'd even go so far as to say that the pen might have started life as a rollerball or ballpoint. The section is plastic and besides the discoloration, there are large areas of pitting and corrosion at the nib end. The nib has no air hole and zero markings and has a lot of pitting near the section. It also is bends at a slight angle in a line the runs from the shoulder to the section, on both sides.

I look forward to hearing what you all think!

Edited October 3, 2013 by Sinistral1

[olivier78860]

It's a Waterman school pen from the early 90s, I used to have the same one in dark blue. It was worth about 60 Francs, so about 9€ from today.

I can't remember the exact name, sadly.

But it's really a Waterman pen.

 

Edited to add : this is the original section. The nib wasn't stamped on that model.

Edited October 3, 2013 by olivier78860

[Ernst Bitterman]

I wouldn't swear to it, but it looks like the earlier sort of Graduate. The odd discolouration of the section is definitely something seen in Watermans of that section-shape in the 1970s, so whether I've got the model right or not I'd be willing to assert that it's definitely of the family.

[RMN]

The shape points to the name: Forme Ronde.

 

See this topic: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/248832-help-identitfying-this-model/

 

 

D.ick

[Sinistral1]

So I wasn't robbed when I won the auction for $15. That's a relief! The brown chipped lacquer is kinda growing on me, too. Any idea on how to replace the section and nib? If I can't replace them, maybe I can try using some semichrome on the nib and give it a shine. And I keep seeing the term "school pen" - what does that mean exactly? Thanks all for the info!

Edited October 3, 2013 by Sinistral1

[RMN]

Perhaps you can ask Force? He has totally redecorated two Carenes. Yummy looking, too.

 

D.ick

[Left FPN]

I think I will stay with Carenes.

 

I sold a new broad section a few years ago and 2 chrome nib models but they are now hard to come by on their own. You will probably have to wait for a donor pen.

 

Your could do with a good ultrasonic clean and maybe try some T Cut on the grip. You never know it might tidy up.

[Sinistral1]

I dipped it in some ESSRI last night and it wrote very nicely - even had a touch of flex to it! I guess it's not ready to be put out to pasture yet.

[olivier78860]

I call school pens those that are pens sold in blisters at supermarkets, for usually less than or around 10€.

It's not a forme ronde or a goutte, those are far older pens.

As often with Waterman, higher range pens, after the production stopped, where made in cheap versions (probably to keep a use of the tools needed to make them). This is another example.

[Ernst Bitterman]

Olivier, I really think this is earlier production than you're taking it for. The finished brass body, plated point, and bands on both cap and barrel (and that horribly discoloured section) all suggest something pre-'90's and more elevated than the sort of school pen you're indicating.

 

...and I say all that in full expectation of someone pointing out the really-not-expensive Apostrophe, which has much the same set of attributes.

[Sinistral1]

From a completely emotional and highly inexperienced point of view, and having owned several lacquer over brass Waterman Gentlemen for many years, this pen feels heavy enough to also be lacquer over metal, brass or otherwise, and while I have no clue about it's age, it does seem to be of better quality than a ball point pen bought at Target at 12 for $3.00. I'll try to post some better quality photos at closer range. I am enjoying the debate, because I truly thought I had been suckered in to buying a real lemon!

 

One final thought - if the nib is gold or gold plated, what could have caused such extensive pitting and all the damage on the section? The section is not just discolored, the corrosion is fairly deep and covers a large area, like several layers of an onion have been removed. When you look at the photo of the nib and section from the side, where the shine changes to matte on the section is where there is plastic surface missing.

Edited October 4, 2013 by Sinistral1

[Ernst Bitterman]

I don't know the cause, but it seems to be something that afflicts Watermans of a certain age. My Master has it, as does the one on Walter Chang's site. Here's mine, which is not as profoundly upset as your mystery object, but it's clearly not quite the shape it was when it was made.

 

http://dirck.delint.ca/beta/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Waterman-0446.jpg

[Sinistral1]

Ernst: It looks like they were left in a container of bleach overnight! Your Master has the same two tone "chipped" look as my mystery pen, except that mine is a darker brown/maroon color.

 

Nyleen

[Left FPN]

They may have been cheap once...

[Sinistral1]

Oh No!!!! What are you trying to do to me, Force? My mouse ran over to the "Bid Now" button, and my fingers typed something in and then one of them clicked the "Confirm" button. I think I need professional help.

[esteroids]

Almost all of this particular section/nib combination I've seen have the same faded section. I used to think it was a fault, but now I'm not so sure. Could it have been the style, or just lousy material?

 

And no one else will probably find this interesting but, the section from these domed/streamlined nib pens screws right into the Executive/Exclusive barrel (and so also the Lady). And the cap even works decently enough. So if you're desperate for a nib....

 

Also - I have a plated trim example, marbled lacquer, looking just like the one pictured, with the nib size marked on the underside, in a hollow at the base of the plastic feed.

Edited October 5, 2013 by esteroids

[basterma]

I have a stainless steel flighter bought in the mid 80's that has the same section and feed, but with an unplated, stainless steel version of the nib. There is discoloration and fading along the section as well. It is a nice writer that has a good, smooth medium line. Asides from the fading and discoloration of the section, which has always bothered me, it's a great pen.

[RMN]

I have a stainless steel flighter bought in the mid 80's that has the same section and feed, but with an unplated, stainless steel version of the nib. There is discoloration and fading along the section as well. It is a nice writer that has a good, smooth medium line. Asides from the fading and discoloration of the section, which has always bothered me, it's a great pen.

I probably have the same pen you are referring to, and also the faded section. I already felt guilty for having mistreated it. I must still have it somewhere, almost threw it out. Not used in at least 20 years. So I did not mistreat it. hurray.

 

D.ick

[Sinistral1]

It's clear that this section "thing" is pandemic and needs the attention of a plastic pen parts forensic scientist. My hypothesis is purely amateur, but think it could involve a chemical reaction between ink fumes and plastic molecules confined in a quasi-airtight vacuum for a lengthy period of time. I'm just saying...

 

On a much lighter note - it is very odd that these sections on different pens have developed this discoloration, and in my pen, corrosion. I'd better go eat some breakfast before my B.S. in BS kicks in again!

Edited October 5, 2013 by Sinistral1

[Ernst Bitterman]

It's clear that this section "thing" is pandemic and needs the attention of a plastic pen parts forensic scientist. My hypothesis is purely amateur, but think it could involve a chemical reaction between ink fumes and plastic molecules confined in a quasi-airtight vacuum for a lengthy period of time. I'm just saying...

 

On a much lighter note - it is very odd that these sections on different pens have developed this discoloration, and in my pen, corrosion. I'd better go eat some breakfast before my B.S. in BS kicks in again!

 

It definitely got sorted out by the 1980s-- I've got a Super Master, bought new in 1984, and (ab)used regularly until the turn of the century. Even though frequently left to dry out between semesters, and never properly cleaned (as I discovered once the internet appeared), the section doesn't have that problem.