Modern Spencerian Nib Pens

[Jadie]

So...there are Spencerian dip nibs. And then there's Spencerian nibs, modern modified beauties via the likes of John Mottishaw on the Namiki Falcon and Richard Binder on Edison Pens.

 

I have no experience with any of these four: Edison pens, Falcon nibs, mods by Mr. Mottishaw or Mr. Binder, and I'm curious as to how these modifications compare.

 

Judging from reviews and pictures alone, they look and write great! Lots of line variation, which suits my likes exactly. But how does it feel like to write with one? Is there anything that sticks out? Is the scratchiness very noticeable when compared to, say, a vintage wet noodle nib like a Waterman 52 1/2? Are Falcon nibs more fragile after the modification? What about modified Edison nibs?

 

I would love to hear your input. The only "flex nibs" I have now are a Danitrio EEF and a Noodler's Ahab. But I'm interested in going full-flex-----without the hassle of staking out eBay for those once-in-a-lifetime vintage wet noodles that everyone seems to bid on.

 

A Mottishaw'ed Falcon or a Binderized Edison seems the best bet, so everything else aside, how do the nibs compare? Is there a significant difference?

 

I don't think writing pressure will be an issue here, since I write with a very light touch---people used to have trouble reading my pencil lines!

 

Thanks in advance!

Edited September 26, 2013 by Jadie

[akustyk]

In my modest experience with flexible nibs (both on fountain pens and dip nibs), the important issue is the ability for the nib to "spring back" right after flexing, and return to a hairline without excessive ink flow. My experience has shown that only vintage flex nibs and dip nibs can do that well. Modern flexible nibs to have tons of line variation, but lack this subtle ability to be responsive and offer the difference between hairline and shade that we seek for Spencerian writing.

 

If you really want to learn Spencerian, the only way to go is with dip nibs, in my honest opinion. Once you've learned the hand, then you will have much better luck with fountain pens.

[Jadie]

Thank you for your insightful input.

 

To be honest, I'm not actually looking to learn Spencerian---I just want a really nice, flexible nib to write with. ("Spencerian" seems to be the adjective used to described the mods of the Mottishaw Falcons and Binderized Edisons these days.)

 

I know that going vintage is probably my best bet of getting a good nib, but---I actually prefer the looks of Edison pens or the Falcon to many vintage pens. I'm not a fan of BCHR, or red ripples, or multicolored celluloids, and remain ambivalent about lever-fillers, vacumatics, and other relics of the vintage pen world.

 

Dip nibs would be a good choice---except that I can't take them with me! Unless I carry around ink too, which is too much trouble.

 

So I guess a better way to rephrase my question would be: do Mottishaw and Binder flex nibs have any significant differences? (If not, I'll just consider which nib has a prettier pen to match!)

[trhall]

Jadie, you could go the route I did. Purchase a modern pen with a vintage nib. I've purchased more than once from Mauricio Aguilar, and he is great to work with:

 

http://www.vintagepen.net/-modern-wvint-flex.html

 

You can also try yourself, but it is trial and error to get a vintage nib to fit into a modern nib unit.

 

My vintage nibs are in TWSBI Diamond 540 and Vac 700 pens. The former being easier to find/fit. Mauricio is great to work with and he can even find/fit nibs into an existing pen you own if you'd like.

[akustyk]

 

So I guess a better way to rephrase my question would be: do Mottishaw and Binder flex nibs have any significant differences? (If not, I'll just consider which nib has a prettier pen to match!)

 

I guess the best way would be to try the nib and see if you like it. Flex nibs are usually much trickier in terms of matching the owner's expectations, hand, etc., than ordinary nibs. See if either seller will allow you to return a modified nib after purchase. For me, that would be the deciding factor.

[MisterBoll]

One thing you should keep in mind - using a Falcon with a Mottishaw Spencerian mod is very close to using a dip pen. If you know how to use these types of nibs you'll be comfortable with this pen. Also - this is a different writing experience than using a vintage flex pen.

Edited September 28, 2013 by MisterBoll

[Jadie]

trhall---right, I completely forgot about Mauricio's modern/vintage mods! That's another very possible option I'll be adding to my list. And ooo...he currently has some Pelikans in stock too, how tempting....

 

akustyk, thanks for the advice. I didn't know we had the option of returning used pens...but if I lean towards an Edison or Falcon, I'll be sure to bring this up in a discussion with them. =)

 

MisterBoll: hmm, I play around with dip pens to test inks, and I recall the experience as being very wet and noisy---especially if the nib is very flexible. Good to know I have something to compare the experience.

 

And when you say "different writing experience than using a vintage flex pen", do you mean to compare dip pens with flex pens, or Spencerian mods with flex pens, please?

[I like mango cheesecake]

does anyone know exactly what Mottishaw does to modify a modern flex nib to a spencerian type flex nib?

[trhall]

Yes, I've almost purchased a Pelikan from him, and have eyed those in the past as well. If you don't see something exactly to your liking, contact Mauricio. He has been busy before with his day job and not been able to put everything he has up on his site.

 

Best of luck with whatever you choose to do!

[MisterBoll]

And when you say "different writing experience than using a vintage flex pen", do you mean to compare dip pens with flex pens, or Spencerian mods with flex pens, please?

 

Meaning a dip pen (and likewise the Spencerian mod) compared to a vintage flex. They are different animals.

 

The only modern pen that compares to a vintage full flex (in my experience) is the Romillo with their flex nib. It's an amazing pen that also comes with an amazing (but well worth) price tag.

 

The only modern kinda-flex pens that are interesting are the Omas Emotica and the Delta Titanio. I've not used the modified Pelikans, etc. so I can't speak for those.

 

If you want a flex pen my suggestion would be to look on ebay, etc. and find something at a good price as a way of getting your flex feet wet.

[heymatthew]

I recently ordered a Binderized nib for my Edison Morgan. I got the Fine and found it to lack the contrast in line width that I had hoped for. I sent it back to Richard and he ground it to an XXF and made some adjustments to the feed for me. It was better when I got it back and worked very well. But Richard did tell me that modern flex nibs just don't have the extreme variation and quick return that vintage pens offer. I ended up selling the pen and nib last week as I just didn't feel like it was a good fit for me.

 

I had a Falcon for a while and liked it a lot, actually, but sold it as I had it early in my collection and was really seeking something better for daily writing. In hindsight, I should have kept it and maybe had Mottishaw add the "Spencerian" modification to it.

 

As much as I liked the Binderized nib, I felt it just didn't give me the variation I had hoped for, which is why I ultimately sold it.

[bleair]

As the new owner of heymatthew's XXF ground flex nib Edison pen I can also attest to how flexible nibs vary between them. My fiance just bought a Falcon and as a modern pen it's great. The Edison with the regrind is good too, but they aren't quite the same as two of the vintage pens that have flex nibs. I'm not sure what the big difference is. I read a theory that it's due to the metal in the nib being worked differently (rolled vs. forged and worked/folded).

 

If anyone knows of a person who is good a metal work maybe we could convince them to try experiments in building nibs. It wouldn't be cheap, but it might be a path for us seeking flex nibs.

[heymatthew]

I probably need to elaborate a little bit after looking back at my post. I don't dislike modern flex nibs, but I think for my personal writing style, a semi-flex like the Namiki Falcon is a much better fit. I tend to write with a little bit more pressure than a lot of people so I tend to get less variation with my nibs. Having a nib that requires a little more pressure to flex keeps me in check as I have to make a conscious effort to flex them.

 

I think that's the difference between a Japanese semi-flex and a modern Binderized full-flex.

[MisterBoll]

Another suggestion (as a try it type of thing) is to get an Ahab. I've no trouble from the few that I have and it is a good inexpensive entry to flex writing.

[terminal]

I recently reviewed the Platinum 3776 Century SF and compared it to a ton of flex pens... including a Falcon, a Pendleton BBwAW and a Waterman 52.

 

Long story short: there's nothing like the Waterman. I'd urge you to stake out eBay for one. ANother option is inkpen... they've worked on a few of my flex pens and I just love them.

[Jadie]

Thanks for all the feedback, guys! Looks like the general consensus here is to "go vintage". Quite sensible...and there ARE vintage pens that aren't BCHR or marbled finishes or crazily expensive, so I've been persuaded to give them a second chance.

 

MisterBoll, I do have an Ahab---a flamboyant, Arizona-patterened one in orange and yellow that matches Noodle's Apache Sunset ink exactly. It's a nice, wet flexor, but has a tendency to drool (to put it nicely). It also gives me hand cramps after a while because of all the pressure I need to use to make it flex. (I have small, skinny fingers---the type that requires help from kindhearted passerbys to unscrew water bottle caps. Quite sad, I know. XD)

 

terminal, your review pictures were lovely and I enjoyed looking through them 'til the end. The link is also very helpful---I didn't even knew inkpen existed before today. Will definitely check them out!

[WirsPlm]

Have you tried doing some nib grinds to the Ahab? There's 2 different kinds floating around on FPN, one that shaves the nib shoulders thinner and one that shaves out semi-circles from the sides of the nib. Links:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/246808-noodlers-ahab-flex-modification/ - thinner nib

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/240492-noodlers-ahab-ease-my-flex-mod/ - semicircles

 

Also, Fountain Pen Revolution sells flex pens. Haven't tried them or anything, just taken a look.

Edited September 30, 2013 by WirsPlm

[MisterBoll]

MisterBoll, (I have small, skinny fingers---the type that requires help from kindhearted passerbys to unscrew water bottle caps. Quite sad, I know. XD)

 

All the more reason for a vintage pen.

[Christi0469]

I bought an FPR Dilli and found that the nib flexes easier than the Noodlers. Mine runs too dry when flexing and the piston action isn't smooth. I think it would benefit from a deeper clean than I gave it initially and a lubricating ink like Noodlers Eel line. The good news is it is thoroughly housebroken unlike my incontinent Noodlers Konrad.

[Jadie]

Friends, fountain pen fellows, flex nib fanatics....I have found a possibility.

 

It is some sort of Japanese pen I have never heard of---a vintage Daimaru in black urushi with a 14k gold nib. The nib looks skinny and tapered and is said to have some flex...once I get it delivered and a new ink sac installed, I shall post updates.

 

Thanks for all your help!