How To Join B And S In Cursive Roundhand

[tenurepro]

Hello, what is the best way to join the lowercase letters b and s in roundhand.

I can think of a few different ways (see below), but not sure which one is best.

Would be great if folks can post back a picture of how they write 'nibs' in cursive... Thanks!

 

[athenian]

Hello, I usually join them like you did in the last of your examples. Sorry, no picture at the moment.

Hope this helps.

[Vendome]

In my Junior 2 class of primary school I was taught example 3.

Edit - bottom right.

Edited September 23, 2013 by Vendome

[Athenais]

I was taught the bottom right example at school.

[tenurepro]

So we get 2 votes for bottom right and one vote for bottom left; i usually do bottom right but i don't find it aesthetically pleasing; (or perhaps i am not doing it correctly); i wonder if there are some calligraphy tricks to make this join easier on the eye

[Chrissy]

I was also taught bottom right in the stone age when I was at school, and we had to use the school's dip pens in their own ink unless we were fortunate enough to own a fountain pen.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Chrissy

[inkstainedruth]

I also do the one on the bottom right, I think.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Zanshin]

Bottom right here as well.

[barleycorn]

Excellent question. While the bottom right is the correct answer(I checked with Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy by E Winters), I am not a fan because in a rush bs can look like lr just as cl can resemble a d. If you dip the join rather than stay flat that will help to separate the letters but this is hard to do consistently when writing quickly. The letter s is a tricky one when connecting with any top join letters (fs, ws, etc) because it is so common.

[pmhudepo]

Although I practise Palmer / Business Writing, my daily script is not quite as formal. Here is what I do:

 

[barleycorn]

Although I practise Palmer / Business Writing, my daily script is not quite as formal. Here is what I do:

 

thank you for illustrating - a picture always does a better job. You have left enough space and with the dip to keep the s distinct. Sometimes, the s can rotate from vertical(as your example illustrates properly) to a right slant and lose its shape particularly if the space is too close.

[dunhamsa]

Bottom right was how I was taught, though I agree that when rushed, it can have a poor look.

[tenurepro]

very nice, thanks

 

Although I practise Palmer / Business Writing, my daily script is not quite as formal. Here is what I do:

 

[tenurepro]

Thanks for the tip. Out of curiosity, what do you think of the top right; i know it is not the 'proper' way of joining, but i find it easier on the eye (although it comes at the expense of an extra stroke)

Excellent question. While the bottom right is the correct answer(I checked with Mastering Copperplate Calligraphy by E Winters), I am not a fan because in a rush bs can look like lr just as cl can resemble a d. If you dip the join rather than stay flat that will help to separate the letters but this is hard to do consistently when writing quickly. The letter s is a tricky one when connecting with any top join letters (fs, ws, etc) because it is so common.

[pmhudepo]

I think my writing would need more "forward drive" to be proper Palmer, as well as smoother curves.

 

The letters 'r' and 's' are difficult to write at speed. Many other letters mostly get choppy, but 'r' and 's' can become rather too similar. If the top of the 'r' is reduced to a single sharp corner and the belly of the 's' isn't closed, there isn't a whole lot of difference left.

 

Equally so for 'd' and 'cl'.

 

I suppose it boils down to practice and slowing down, or possibly using (cursive) italic for writing at speed.

[GabrielleDuVent]

Bottom right as well. Bottom left looks like "les".

[Italicist]

I'd vote for the bottom right as well; all of the other combinations provide greater possibilities for confusion on the part of the reader, since they can appear very close to "ls" or "les" or perhaps even a misformed "fs" rather than the intended "bs". Certainty of decipherment is one of the hallmarks of good handwriting, whatever the style.

 

Thanks for raising an interesting question.

[FutureKC123]

Yes, from a French perspective it looks very much like the word "les".

FKC

[barleycorn]

Thanks for the tip. Out of curiosity, what do you think of the top right; i know it is not the 'proper' way of joining, but i find it easier on the eye (although it comes at the expense of an extra stroke)

I will have to admit here that I cheat...I know that is the easy way but so be it. If using a b with a loop, I would not join to the s at all as per your first b + s. I use a hybrid of cursive and italic without loops on the ascenders ( bdhk) but with loops on the descenders (gjyz). Also I prefer to use connectors from the bottom in italic style. I do not connect letters all the time and avoid awkward combinations such as fs. In fact I seldom connect the letter f to anything. The combination just seems to look right to me even if it means that some letters require two strokes to write. I will post a sample for your consideration, probably tomorrow.

When doing proper Calligraphy - Italic, Copperplate, Uncial or Gothic, I try to keep to proper form. But you are going at a speed to be as neat as possible.

[tenurepro]

can you post a picture please... i can't seem to visualize the 'cheating'

I will have to admit here that I cheat...I know that is the easy way but so be it. If using a b with a loop, I would not join to the s at all as per your first b + s. I use a hybrid of cursive and italic without loops on the ascenders ( bdhk) but with loops on the descenders (gjyz). Also I prefer to use connectors from the bottom in italic style. I do not connect letters all the time and avoid awkward combinations such as fs. In fact I seldom connect the letter f to anything. The combination just seems to look right to me even if it means that some letters require two strokes to write. I will post a sample for your consideration, probably tomorrow.

When doing proper Calligraphy - Italic, Copperplate, Uncial or Gothic, I try to keep to proper form. But you are going at a speed to be as neat as possible.

Edited September 25, 2013 by tenurepro