The Writing Fields Flexbook Notebooks - A Notebook Line From Greece

[Paperblanks]

  On 9/27/2013 at 9:26 PM, Plume145 said:

Funny thing is, I actually have a wonderful paperblanks journal that I got as a gift, and it is SO absorbent! lol. Everything I tried on there feathers something fierce lol. And I've tried a few because the journal is just ridiculously beautiful - even has a coptic binding and all, and I have a real soft spot for those!

 

Hi! Just wanted to chime in and say this should definitely not be the case for anything we've released post-2008, when we greatly improved the quality of our paper. (We're pretty obsessive and rigorous about our quality standards. ) Most Paperblanks books on the shelves right now should be fit for fountain pens but we can't guarantee that some post-2008 books are still out there.

 

You can find out more on this topic in another discussion thread here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/220588-paper-blanks-note-booksjournals/

 

- Paperblanks

[Plume145]

  On 10/1/2013 at 10:32 AM, Inkysloth said:

One of my friends is currently in the process of setting up an arts / craft shop in SE London. I don't know her timeframe, but I'll definitely be passing the info from here on to her, to see if she could become a stockist.

 

oh cool! A new arts/craft shop - always a cause for celebration in my book, lol.

 

I think she'd definitely get a response if she contacted them now. They seem to be just at the beginning of the process so I think at this stage knowing about any interest there is around is something they'd be interested in.

 

Best of luck to your friend on her new venture!

  On 10/1/2013 at 6:41 PM, Paperblanks said:

 

Hi! Just wanted to chime in and say this should definitely not be the case for anything we've released post-2008, when we greatly improved the quality of our paper. (We're pretty obsessive and rigorous about our quality standards. ) Most Paperblanks books on the shelves right now should be fit for fountain pens but we can't guarantee that some post-2008 books are still out there.

 

You can find out more on this topic in another discussion thread here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/220588-paper-blanks-note-booksjournals/

 

- Paperblanks

Oh, I didn't know! Thanks To keep this thread on topic (more or less - I did go off on a bit of a tangent there discussing other locally made notebooks, but discussing Paperblanks would take it even more off topic lol) I revived the other thread and posted there. If you could go check it out, I'd really appreciate it

[WirsPlm]

  On 9/27/2013 at 9:26 PM, Plume145 said:

Funny thing is, I actually have a wonderful paperblanks journal that I got as a gift, and it is SO absorbent! lol. Everything I tried on there feathers something fierce lol. And I've tried a few because the journal is just ridiculously beautiful - even has a coptic binding and all, and I have a real soft spot for those!

 

The Paperblanks I bought earlier this year works well with FPs, and I've used italic nibs on it.

 

On-topic, I'd be interested in these notebooks if they ever came to the US. I'd have to see the price/sheet on them though. Items imported from the EU are often priced foolishly over here. If the paper is acid-free archival quality (good for journaling), I think it's worth a premium, but if not there are lots and lots of well-bound FP-friendly notebooks, so that's a tough market to break into. IDK that a new binding would be worth paying an imported-item price, since most notebooks hold up fairly well to pretty rough treatment already.

Edited October 2, 2013 by WirsPlm

[Plume145]

I don't know anything about whether they make claims it's acid free and archival quality, but tbh most of these claims are a bit bogus anyway - they're kinda like 'rejuvenating' and 'purifying' as used in the cosmetics industry, terms that sound like they mean a lot but are actually completely unregulated and therefore open to be used by anyone for any product. I mean you can get those sticky backed albums they had in the seventies and eighties, the ones that were full of horrible glues and vinyl and other cr@p in them that ate at your photos and washed out the colors until they were unrecognizable, and apparently they are still advertized as 'archival quality'. So nowadays I don't put too much stock with things like that

 

I know archivists, historians, librarians, and others with an interest in document preservation have various independent tests they do on materials they use to store stuff in to make sure it's suitable for the purpose, so I'm assuming they also have paper that meets those standards as well like what they use for envelopes or folders or whatever, to organize things. I'm sure if you looked long and hard enough, you could get some of that for your journaling. But it would probably be loose paper, maybe not even cut to a manageable size. I seriously doubt it would be already bound in neat little notebooks.

 

To be honest though, plain paper really isn't as toxic as all that. I think you should be fine as long as you find a book made out of paper, with minimal use of glue and plastic, write in it with a fairly long-lasting ink, then once it's full store it away from the light and from temperature or humidity extremes (ie not too hot/too cold, not too wet/too dry). Conditions are very important factors in preservation, possibly more important than materials, CERTAINLY more important than materials that have nothing more going for them than a vague commercial claim. If longevity is a significant concern for you (eg, you're writing down a history of your family or your memories or whatever, so you want it to live long enough for your grandchildren to read or something), it might be better to get some advice on what to use from an actual archivist, librarian, or historian than to simply rely on commercial claims.

[WirsPlm]

Acid-free and archival are terms with specific ISO standards, with additional US-only standards for libraries, etc, and in the US misusing them would fall under truth in advertising laws (as far as I understand the situation). That may not be true in the EU I guess, although it's kind of shocking if truth in advertising laws don't cover this kind of thing.

 

Conditions are important, but if your paper starts out acidic condition management becomes damage mitigation instead of damage prevention, and you have to start focusing more intently on it. Or, you can just journal on acid-free paper and take reasonable care. It's an easy step that removes some of the concerns.

Edited October 3, 2013 by WirsPlm

[Plume145]

  On 10/3/2013 at 2:03 AM, WirsPlm said:

Acid-free and archival are terms with specific ISO standards, with additional US-only standards for libraries, etc, and in the US misusing them would fall under truth in advertising laws (as far as I understand the situation). That may not be true in the EU I guess, although it's kind of shocking if truth in advertising laws don't cover this kind of thing.

 

Conditions are important, but if your paper starts out acidic condition management becomes damage mitigation instead of damage prevention, and you have to start focusing more intently on it. Or, you can just journal on acid-free paper and take reasonable care. It's an easy step that removes some of the concerns.

Maybe there are specific standards, but the point is these are also used by companies making stuff like scrapbook paper, and they are more focused on trends and three or four different collections a year than on preservation. Look, when something is sold as acid free and archival quality in the form of a spiral bound notebook full of decorated paper with glued covers and plastic inserts (eg K & Company Smash), I get suspicious. I say this with love lol, because I use the Smash line myself, as well as all kinds of other craft and office supplies peddled as 'archival' and acid free and so on...but I'm not kidding myself as to longevity. It's stuff I probably won't even want to keep longer than a few years anyway. The kinds of things used for preserving historical documents are a whole different ball game - they look very basic and don't come in convenience-led formats such as notebooks.

 

 

As for truth in advertising, well, it's kind of a so-what situation in that who's going to come after them? And more to the point, when (ie how long after the goods sold as archive safe were purchased - IOW how long are they supposed to last)? And how are they going to prove the scrapbook/journal/whatever did not preserve their documents because the materials used to construct it were poor or not really acid free, when the company might dismiss any failures as user error or blame them on extraneous conditions?

 

Beyond that, it's not that the companies are claiming to adhere to specific standards (eg saying on the pack of scrapbooking paper or the journal, 'compliant with ISO standard #12345' or 'passed the PAT test') - they are making a generic claim, much like saying a product is 'all-natural'. What does it mean? Who gets to decide what all natural is, and who gets to compare products to that list of criteria? Is there anyone to enforce that, and what tools (eg sanctions, bans, etc) do they have at their disposal to deal with misuse of those terms? For the ISOs and the PAT and whatnot, that's all specific, but for words like 'archival' or 'acid-free' in context of a product description, it means sweet FA.

 

And actually, if anything the rules and standards will be tighter in the EU lol - rules and regulations seem to be what the EU does best *eyeroll*. Plus, ISO means International Organization for Standardization, so I'm pretty sure ISOs are the same in the US and the EU (and beyond)

[WirsPlm]

  On 10/3/2013 at 2:59 AM, Plume145 said:

Maybe there are specific standards, but the point is these are also used by companies making stuff like scrapbook paper, and they are more focused on trends and three or four different collections a year than on preservation. Look, when something is sold as acid free and archival quality in the form of a spiral bound notebook full of decorated paper with glued covers and plastic inserts (eg K & Company Smash), I get suspicious. I say this with love lol, because I use the Smash line myself, as well as all kinds of other craft and office supplies peddled as 'archival' and acid free and so on...but I'm not kidding myself as to longevity. It's stuff I probably won't even want to keep longer than a few years anyway. The kinds of things used for preserving historical documents are a whole different ball game - they look very basic and don't come in convenience-led formats such as notebooks.

 

As for truth in advertising, well, it's kind of a so-what situation in that who's going to come after them? And more to the point, when (ie how long after the goods sold as archive safe were purchased - IOW how long are they supposed to last)? And how are they going to prove the scrapbook/journal/whatever did not preserve their documents because the materials used to construct it were poor or not really acid free, when the company might dismiss any failures as user error or blame them on extraneous conditions

 

Beyond that, it's not that the companies are claiming to adhere to specific standards (eg saying on the pack of scrapbooking paper or the journal, 'compliant with ISO standard #12345' or 'passed the PAT test') - they are making a generic claim, much like saying a product is 'all-natural'. What does it mean? Who gets to decide what all natural is, and who gets to compare products to that list of criteria? Is there anyone to enforce that, and what tools (eg sanctions, bans, etc) do they have at their disposal to deal with misuse of those terms? For the ISOs and the PAT and whatnot, that's all specific, but for words like 'archival' or 'acid-free' in context of a product description, it means sweet FA.

 

And actually, if anything the rules and standards will be tighter in the EU lol - rules and regulations seem to be what the EU does best *eyeroll*. Plus, ISO means International Organization for Standardization, so I'm pretty sure ISOs are the same in the US and the EU (and beyond)

1) That was kind of a snippy-sounding reply.

2) Yeah, international standards are international. Which was why I brought that up - I was surprised that you didn't seem to be aware of the ISO terms. Regarding EU law, in some areas it's stricter than the US, in some areas it's not as strict as US regulations (and in some areas it's simply different).

3) You're making a ton of assumptions there, and using them to dismiss what I said without actually addressing my point.

 

I'm not sure why you're being antagonistic. I stated a position on my interest in this product. You told me I was silly and wrong. I replied with some information that it didn't seem like you had. You responded with an aggressive post that boils down, again, to 'I (Plume145) disagree with this strawperson I made based on a bunch of assumptions, therefore you are incorrect and your position is foolish'. This isn't productive, and leaves me wondering why you're so invested in shooting down potential objections to this product.

Edited October 3, 2013 by WirsPlm

[Plume145]

I deeply resent your insinuations that I have some kind of vested interest in promoting these notebooks. It's utterly uncalled for and completely baseless, and particularly ironic given I have gone far out of my way to make it abundantly clear that I have NO commercial ties to anyone, not only in this topic but throughout my participation in this forum over the past eighteen months of near-daily posting. I shan't get into the detail of the accusation because I believe that my entire presence here over more than 550 posts speaks for itself and I have nothing to prove to anyone, least of all someone acting in what seems like such bad faith. I demand an apology.

 

 

 

Now then. As for the archival preservation stuff, hey, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree. Truth is, I get pretty fired up about these issues - been thinking about them for years, from all kinds of angles. In fact, you might say I grew up with these things since I was little, because there were a lot of heirlooms like letters, journals, sheet music, etc around, from both sides of the family. From that I got into history and archaeology more generally, and next thing you know, I'm actually going to uni for all that stuff! But preservation is still a big deal to me, and I geek out about it pretty bad Right now I am also dealing with a new bunch of those family-type documents, so it's all even closer to the surface than usual

[Plume145]

In case anyone's interested - I got an email update from the same contact at the publishing house that makes these (The Writing Fields) saying the notebooks are now sold through Amazon.de and ebay.de, plus this other german site Don't know why all Germany, but there you go!

 

I also discovered that one of these journals is actually a good size to use as an alternative refill for those pesky 5x7 journal covers from Barnes and Noble where the refills have rather inconsistent paper.

[jimhughes]

Although I have an Amazon German account, they don't ship to the USA from Germany. This occurs occasionally with both Japan, German and UK Amazon Stores, Dang.

[Plume145]

oh, crud. Maybe off of ebay?