Informal Musings On Ink Flow

[amberleadavis]

So, I was trying to use up all the ink my pens so I could fill up with all new inks. I grabbed two identical pens (TWSBI 540 Smoke) with broad nibs and both filled with purple inks. Here are my thoughts.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Inklings/slides/2013-Ink_511.jpg

[Randal6393]

Have you tried a good cleaning? The flow is definitely inadequate on the second pen. Maybe a good cleaning with the usual ammonia solution (1:10), followed by a cleaning with soapy water and flushing with clear, cool water will help the feed perform better.

 

Best of luck to you,

[inkstainedruth]

Have you tried a good cleaning? The flow is definitely inadequate on the second pen. Maybe a good cleaning with the usual ammonia solution (1:10), followed by a cleaning with soapy water and flushing with clear, cool water will help the feed perform better.

 

Best of luck to you,

It might be that the pens are not quite "identical". It also might be that one of the inks is just drier and not as lubricated an ink. I can't say for sure, since I don't have either of those, although I have a sample of Scabiosa in the mail at the moment; I thought about getting a sample of Bilberry at the same time, but it lost out to another ink, because I only have so much in discretionary funds (some of which just went to a possibly never-opened 8 oz. bottle of vintage Quink Violet... ).

Scabiosa is an iron gall ink, and the IG inks I have tried tended to run drier than other inks in general. That could easily explain the difference.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[amberleadavis]

Have you tried a good cleaning? The flow is definitely inadequate on the second pen. Maybe a good cleaning with the usual ammonia solution (1:10), followed by a cleaning with soapy water and flushing with clear, cool water will help the feed perform better.

 

Best of luck to you,

 

 

I'm not disagreeing, I'm seeking more information. What characteristics or quirks would you look at to say that the flow on the second pen is inadequate as opposed to as Ruth describes, a IG ink that runs "drier"? My suspicion is that Scabiosa runs drier and Bilberry is a "wet" ink, but I can't say that for sure. I can say that the last inks that I had in these two pens acted virtually the same.

[brunico]

My suspicion is that Scabiosa runs drier and Bilberry is a "wet" ink, but I can't say that for sure. I can say that the last inks that I had in these two pens acted virtually the same.

 

I suspect as much, too, from what I've read about these inks. Why not unscrew, flush and swap the nib units - keeping the ink in the barrels - and see whether you get the same results?

 

Have recently been eyeing up Scabiosa (again). Sailor Tamon purple grey (a Kobe series ink) might be an alternative for colour.

Edited September 10, 2013 by brunico

[amberleadavis]

I was considering swapping the nibs, after I read the early question. As for Tamon, the color is very pretty (though I'm not a grey ink fan), and the color I considered the most similar, but I can say that Tamon is different. So far, the Kobe inks are wonderfully wet.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/2013-FADE/slides/2013-FADE_083.jpg

[amberleadavis]

http://sheismylawyer.com/2013-FADE/slides/2013-FADE_042.jpg

[amberleadavis]

Hmm.... I can't find my full sheets of R&K Scabiosa.

[brunico]

As for Tamon, the color is very pretty (though I'm not a grey ink fan), and the color I considered the most similar, but I can say that Tamon is different. So far, the Kobe inks are wonderfully wet.

 

Ooh, lovely, thanks!

 

Had Noodler's la couleur royale but found it too purple, Sailor Fuji-musume was too reddish a lilac for me (and PR Purple Haze is proving the same), Diamine Violet was waaay too bright, and I'm finding PR Ebony Purple too plum. I'm a bit sensitive about anything purple. That's five inks already... perhaps I should just stop buying them...

[cybaea]

I'm not disagreeing, I'm seeking more information. What characteristics or quirks would you look at to say that the flow on the second pen is inadequate as opposed to as Ruth describes, a IG ink that runs "drier"? My suspicion is that Scabiosa runs drier and Bilberry is a "wet" ink, but I can't say that for sure. I can say that the last inks that I had in these two pens acted virtually the same.

 

Thin lines, high(-er) friction on the paper; that sort of thing.

 

Bilberry is a normal-wet ink, Scabiosa a dry one. Pelikan 4001 would be a set of moderately dry non-iron-gall inks if you want to experiment cheaply

 

Of course inks are different and have different flows. Much of the chemistry of inks are about the flow, adjusting viscosity, surface tension, and more. Would be nice to get a lecture on the subject from one of the ink manufacturers, but you can imagine the general idea if you think about washing the dishes and how the soap help to "make things flow" off the plate.

[amberleadavis]

My chemistry teacher (decades ago) described soap as "making water wetter" - pushing the molecules farther apart and the feel was "slicker" (if that makes sense).

 

I can say on this pen ink combo, that the pen does not write poorly or that it was hard to start, more that it just doesn't glide like the Bilberry and this was an instance where the difference was very noticeable to me, perhaps because they are identical pens, nibs, feeds (even down to the color).

[inkstainedruth]

My chemistry teacher (decades ago) described soap as "making water wetter" - pushing the molecules farther apart and the feel was "slicker" (if that makes sense).

Actually it does. A few years ago I took an art workshop in doing fresco. Between the the third layer of the plaster and the top layer (the one that is actually the painting medium -- which is either all or mostly slaked lime -- we made up the pigment pastes. My task in the class was Alizarin Crimson, which needed (IIRC) isopropyl alcohol as a wetting agent to get the pigment powder to dissolve and mix into water.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[martinbir]

I have both inks and, yes, Scabiosa is really dry and will only work well in a really wet nibbed pen.

 

A slightly labour intensive but definite way to prove it is the ink not the pen would be to flush both pens and refill the other way around. You then know if the problems stays with the ink or the pen.

[amberleadavis]

Actually it does. A few years ago I took an art workshop in doing fresco. Between the the third layer of the plaster and the top layer (the one that is actually the painting medium -- which is either all or mostly slaked lime -- we made up the pigment pastes. My task in the class was Alizarin Crimson, which needed (IIRC) isopropyl alcohol as a wetting agent to get the pigment powder to dissolve and mix into water.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

Your classes were fascinating. I want to see some of your art work.

[dcwaites]

I would be drying the nibs out and examining them with a loupe.

 

Are the tines aligned properly? If they are mis-aligned vertically, that can make the nib scratchy.

 

And is the gap between the tines the same? With the nibs dry you should be able to see a tiny gap between the tines all the way to the end of the nib tip. You might find that the dryer nib just has the nib tips touching.

 

The feed on the drier pen may also need cleaning out.

[amberleadavis]

Okay, I've now used up all the ink in both pens. I can tell you that the Scabiosa is just a dry ink. The flow on the pen was perfect until it emptied. It's also beautifully water proof.

 

Here are some of my musings.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Inklings/slides/2013-Ink_522.jpg

[amberleadavis]

Now, just to make it interesting .....

 

I doodled over the top with the Bilberry.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Inklings/slides/2013-Ink_522b.jpg

[amberleadavis]

Then, I doodled with Montegrappa Blue - which seems to be unexpectedly water resistant. (See the later images).

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Inklings/slides/2013-Ink_522c.jpg

[amberleadavis]

Then, I washed my Bilberry Doodles with a paint brush.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Inklings/slides/2013-Ink_522d.jpg

[amberleadavis]

Then, after the entire project was dry. I washed the entire sheet. I didn't soak it, I just washed it under the running water and then let that dry overnight.

 

http://sheismylawyer.com/She_Thinks_In_Ink/Inklings/slides/2013-Ink_522e.jpg