International Buyers Stay Away From Ebay Usa!

[honza]

Prior to the GSP program, the cost of my shipping a pen to Europe/Australia/Asia from the US would be close to $40, using the cheapest method that has tracking, Int'l Priority. Now I can send the pen to Ebay's domestic US shipping center for under $5. So there are substantial savings for the US seller, presumably reflected in the prices charged. I understand the griping, but the cost of the pen and/or the customs % would have to be quite high for the customs hit to be more than the $35 in saved shipping. And my understanding is that in some countries, i.e., Germany, the odds of a package slipping by customs are low.

 

I'm not getting it. The shipping that you, as the US seller, pay is definitely lower. However, the shipping I, as a buyer from the EU, pay, is actually (much) higher. So no saving of $35 for me! I actually pay some extra fees I would otherwise avoid. Especially for low-cost items (say sub $50-75). The tax-free/duty-free limit in my country is 22EUR, and it is not always enforced if the value is not much over the limit. However, the brokerage/shipping fees can easily get the goods over this limit. Even if I'm hit with the tax, I know exactly how much it will be (VAT + processing fee). In that case I usually do not have to do anything at all (if the paperwork/custom declaration is ok) -- the tax is calculated automatically and I just pay it when picking up the package at my local post office. If the paperwork is not clear, I need to send a copy of a PayPal statement/receipt by e-mail, which takes me at most two minutes. So I see absolutely no benefit of paying some ridiculous "processing" and other fees.

 

Also I do not understand why you would have to send with tracking - as a buyer of a low-cost (say sub $20-30) item I would be happy with plain First-Class (sub $10!). I have purchased several pens from the US this way and never had a problem. Purchasing from a seller with a good feedback I'm not worried he won't send the pen and, if it gets lost in transit (really does not happen much at all at least to my country, and I never had such experience) I would accept it as my risk and loss. However, you can just add Registered/Return Receipt/Certificate of Mailing if you feel like it. Note that with Registered you are still covered as a seller (and get electronic return receipt, for paper one add $3.5), and the price is still only $22.

[ksh]

I don't sell pens worth less than $100, so finding a way to send a $25 item to Europe that makes economic sense has never been a concern. Ebay's policy is that if the buyer says they did not receive the item, then seller is responsible for a refund unless they can prove delivery. So I'd never send a $100+ pen without being able to prove delivery. Your info on sending registered is not the full story. The price of around $22 is about right. I paid $25 to send a registered envelope to France. The problem is it takes forever. My 1st Class registered envelope to France took 5 weeks. The registration process adds weeks to the delivery time. What buyer wants to wait that long? If it costs me $5 to send a package to Europe, instead of $35, I pass that savings on to the buyer. I don't know how much GSP adds to the costs of the buyer. If I sell a $150 pen & charge $30 less for shipping than I'd charge without GSP, do you get hit for fees that exceed the $30 in savings? I suspect the answer depends on whether or not you count the Customs fee, or assume that you would have been able to avoid it without GSP. I appreciate that the Customs fee on a $500 pen is likely to exceed $30, but I would never sell a pen worth that much overseas without declaring the real value, which would be required in order to get insurance for the full amount. Part of the griping is based on the assumption that the buyer would have been able to avoid paying Customs but for GSP. That's a legitimate concern for inexpensive items, but I am guessing that most sellers sending expensive items overseas do the same thing I do, and want no part of the risks involved in trying to help the buyer avoid Customs fees.

Edited September 12, 2013 by ksh

[idazle]

Most stuff I buy goes straight through customs with no charges. I simply don't bid on auctions only offering this rip-off system.

Kind regards

Timothy

 

+1

 

Import duties, if at all, are to be collected by each country's customs and not by e-Bay. The measure is outrageous really, and I won't buy from sellers that adopt this "Global whatever" programme.

Edited September 12, 2013 by idazle

[honza]

ksh, I see we come from a completely different setting, which explains why we disagree You don't sell for less than $100, I don't buy for more than $50 (but that's an exception, I'm usually within the $10-$30 range). Therefore I'm very sensitive to the cost of sending the item. And in that range, tax does not even come to question (30USD = 22.5 EUR). A case in point: some time ago I bought an Esterbrook J for $10.5 from a US seller and the first-class postage was $8.88. The pen arrived in two weeks or so (I do not remember exactly).

 

Now consider an auction I've just seen, a pen for $25 selling under GSP. The shipping shows as $20.43, plus import charges of $13.38 I.e. the final price is $58.81! And I have to pay the import charges even though the price is within the tax-free limit 22 EUR! (25 USD = 18.83 EUR) With first class I would pay something like $37, more than $20 less. Moreover, there is a clause saying "(amount confirmed at checkout)" so I'm not even sure what it would cost me before I actually commit to the purchase! (So my little calculation can be off by some amount.) That's the problem everybody is talking about.

 

BTW if the item arrives by normal post, the shipping does not count towards the tax-free limit. However if it comes by courier (as is the case under GSP), it does!

Your info on sending registered is not the full story. The price of around $22 is about right. I paid $25 to send a registered envelope to France. The problem is it takes forever. My 1st Class registered envelope to France took 5 weeks. The registration process adds weeks to the delivery time. What buyer wants to wait that long?

I do not actually care it it takes a week or two longer, for the price. Note that 1-3 weeks is the usual range from my experience. So yes, I'm willing to wait

If it costs me $5 to send a package to Europe, instead of $35, I pass that savings on to the buyer.

Talking about EBay, you can't really pass the savings on to the buyer. The auction is won at some price and only then is the postage is calculated, together with the import charges. Or am I missing something? The GSP charges me for postage, not you.

If I sell a $150 pen & charge $30 less for shipping than I'd charge without GSP, do you get hit for fees that exceed the $30 in savings? I suspect the answer depends on whether or not you count the Customs fee, or assume that you would have been able to avoid it without GSP. I appreciate that the Customs fee on a $500 pen is likely to exceed $30, but I would never sell a pen worth that much overseas without declaring the real value, which would be required in order to get insurance for the full amount. Part of the griping is based on the assumption that the buyer would have been able to avoid paying Customs but for GSP. That's a legitimate concern for inexpensive items, but I am guessing that most sellers sending expensive items overseas do the same thing I do, and want no part of the risks involved in trying to help the buyer avoid Customs fees.

For 149$ pen using GSP the shipping will be $26.68 and the import charges $40.44. I.e. $216.12 altogether. The same, shipped first class (for, say, $12) would incur 21% VAT ($33.81) plus $9.2 customs processing fee (which does not depend on the price of the item). I.e. $192 altogether. Of course I can understand that from the point of the seller in the first case he got tracking and insurance. And, to be honest, for such expensive items I would not mind paying a little bit more BTW I never asked the seller to state a lower value on the custom declaration!

 

To conclude - for more pricey item I do not have much problems with using the GSP. You get some value (insurance, tracking, reasonable shipping) out of it, and the price is +- reasonable. However, for cheap items it is a problem, making it uneconomical to buy from US sellers.

Edited September 12, 2013 by honza

[Quill1]

It is not Ebay or USA, or any other Country one purchases from. Import Duties and any Tax is Country specific, if I get a package from the USA The UK part of the Post Office, ParcelForce, evaluates the Export declaration and adds its VAT & standard Fee, if they disagree to the declaration and parcel size they will open the package and evaluate it as they see fit and charge you for the priveldge that they opened your package. Where I have had high value items from USA via UPS, UPS have paid the fee and about a month later I get a Invoice from UPS with the breakdown of charges that I pay them.

 

In the UK the value is set very low around £12-15 before it attracts extra Duties, even if purchasing or being gifted a pre-owned item or heirloom, charges apply. This pas year in the UK the Post Office/Parcel Force have stepped up their checks for everyone and now all my incoming mail is held for payment of Import Duties and VAT where as a few years ago it was very random. I think it is easy for them to hit the little guy with a fee.

 

You don't need a Broker unless you don't have time to pick up the item personally or arrange for a re-delivery after payment. I feel these companies are just making a quick $ for doing what an invidual can do. Just check with your local postal service for Rules and Guidance.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Quill1

[Ernst Bitterman]

My bad experience with GSP came out of a $55 Parker 75. A bargain! But, we add in $12 shipping paid to the seller plus the costs paid to Pitney-Bowes: $13.56 customs charges plus $10.99 shipping (yes, shipping twice), and that is a non-exclamation pointed bargain of $91.55 plus all the clean-up and point-fixin' I put into it, as it was squalid and crooked (thus the low purchase price).

 

On a $55 item sent the traditional way, assuming $12 shipping, Canada customs would have demanded GST (our version of VAT), maybe, as they seem to be fairly care-free about items under $100. That would have run up to $2.75, and Canada Post would have asked somewhere between $5 and $10 to handle getting that money to Customs. A maximum of $79.75, and more likely just the $67 of the actual purchase; either way, still more like the right price for the thing I bought in the condition it was in. The only benefit I get out of the extra money is the purported tracking, which on the US side ran "Going to Wichita, In Wichita, Leaving Wichita... you need to ask FOREIGN POSTAL SERVICE" and from Canada Post's side only ever said "You can expect this package two days ago". I also have to explain to Paypal that I don't live in Wichita, since apparently using the program set me up with a new address in their system.

 

Not a BIG deal, but enough of an extra expense and a pointless hassle that I'm not buying from sellers that use it. Once I can support, but an extra $15 on several pens becomes a serious burden.

Edited September 12, 2013 by Ernst Bitterman

[Paul80]

Hi all

 

Been hit a few times with duty payments over the last week or so, although nothing to do with ebay.

 

Bought a Pen for £150 and got charged duty, which I was expecting

 

Bought a Pen for £20 and got charged duty, which I was not expecting

 

And today's record bought a Lathe from a Hong Kong Seller for £110 and got charged duty by DHS and its still in Hong Kong. I was expecting to pay it but not that quickly.

 

Paul

[raging.dragon]

Prior to the GSP program, the cost of my shipping a pen to Europe/Australia/Asia from the US would be close to $40, using the cheapest method that has tracking, Int'l Priority. Now I can send the pen to Ebay's domestic US shipping center for under $5. So there are substantial savings for the US seller, presumably reflected in the prices charged. I understand the griping, but the cost of the pen and/or the customs % would have to be quite high for the customs hit to be more than the $35 in saved shipping. And my understanding is that in some countries, i.e., Germany, the odds of a package slipping by customs are low.

 

Using normal USPS shipping the buyer pays for:

• shipping from seller to buyer
• taxes and customs fees on the price of the goods bought

Using GSP the buyer now has to pay for:

• shipping from seller to Pitney Bowes
• shipping from Pitney Bowes to buyer (at best similar to non-GSP shipping cost)
• a service fee charged by Pitney Bowes
• taxes and customs fees on the price of the goods bought (same as before)
• taxes and customs fees on the Pitney Bowes shipping and service fee

So, even ignoring the possibility of a shipment slipping through customs without being assessed for taxes, this is a raw deal deal for the buyer unless the price is unusually low. Worse yet, GSP adds about a week to the shipping time, and based on my singular experience, the tracking is inferior to what I get with USPS express or priority shipment. I'll put up with GSP if I'm getting an exceptional bargain, but if the price is anywhere near regular market value I'll be buying somewhere else.

[tfwall]

 

Using normal USPS shipping the buyer pays for:

• shipping from seller to buyer
• taxes and customs fees on the price of the goods bought

Using GSP the buyer now has to pay for:

• shipping from seller to Pitney Bowes
• shipping from Pitney Bowes to buyer (at best similar to non-GSP shipping cost)
• a service fee charged by Pitney Bowes
• taxes and customs fees on the price of the goods bought (same as before)
• taxes and customs fees on the Pitney Bowes shipping and service fee

So, even ignoring the possibility of a shipment slipping through customs without being assessed for taxes, this is a raw deal deal for the buyer unless the price is unusually low. Worse yet, GSP adds about a week to the shipping time, and based on my singular experience, the tracking is inferior to what I get with USPS express or priority shipment. I'll put up with GSP if I'm getting an exceptional bargain, but if the price is anywhere near regular market value I'll be buying somewhere else.

 

Yes, where this service really shines though is 1.) opening up auctions to international buyers, where the seller usually wouldn't be bothered to go through the extra work to sell internationally, and 2.) protecting the seller by ensuring that (affordable) international tracking is a non-negotiable part of the auction.

[Dermo]

I think the obvious conclusion from all the debate is that the GSP is a good deal for the seller but a prohibitively bad deal for the international buyer. I can't imagine this will result in anything other than fewer international sales. Given the size of the domestic market, I suspect this won't be a big issue for US sellers. It just means less access for international buyers to US makes. Maybe it will boost demand for European and other non-US pens?

Personally speaking, I won't be buying from sellers using The GSP.

[ksh]

 

 

Talking about EBay, you can't really pass the savings on to the buyer. The auction is won at some price and only then is the postage is calculated, together with the import charges. Or am I missing something? The GSP charges me for postage, not you.

 

If I pay $38 to ship to Europe, I'll charge the buyer $38. If I pay $5 to ship to Ebay's distribution center, I'll charge $5. My question was whether GSP results in costs that exceed the additional $33 I'd charge if shipping directly without GSP plus the legit Customs hit. And it sounds like the answer is yes, even for inexpensive items. To me, the lesson here isn't so much that Ebay's system is a bad option, it's that there is no good option. The cheapest shipping with tracking, $38 to Europe, is too expensive to make it sensible to buy items that are less than $200. And I won't ship without tracking, as I'd have no Paypal/Ebay protection if the seller says the item never arrived, no matter what the seller might agree to in advance.

Edited September 29, 2013 by ksh

[idazle]

There is a cheaper and also safer option for tracked mail from the USA: Registered First Class Package International.

[ksh]

Not a realistic option for Ebay. It's only slightly cheaper. To France, I paid $25 instead of $38. But instead of less than a week, it took 5 weeks. You heard that right. 5 weeks to get from Boston to Paris. And if you are sending to more out of the way locale than Paris, I suspect it's worse.

Edited September 29, 2013 by ksh

[idazle]

On my experience with dozens of shipments, it normally takes between one week and 10 days from any USA location to Madrid or San Sebastian in Spain. Of course, exceptionally it can take longer, but I have never waited 5 weeks for a parcel sent by International First-Class mail.

[ksh]

It's the registration process that slows it way down. 1st Class without registration is a week to Europe. I've used registered mail twice in the past year. Paris & Milan, and it was over a month both times. The one to Paris was a nightmare because it was an Ebay return and Ebay initially took the position that I wasn't entitled to a refund because of how long it took. Never again.

[Tinjapan]

I too have been very unpleasantly surprised by this. I recently won a pen for just shy of $115. US. I noticed that the merchant was enrolled in "Global Shipping Program" and thought that accounted for the $34.57 shipping instead of the usual $25. or so. I was shocked to get an invoice asking for $172.60! There was an additional $25. Added for import fees! This is more than the combined import duties I paid for two writing slopes that cost many many times the price of this pen.

I ate this additional cost but have also decided no more buying from the US, my home country. I am not of sufficient means to be able to make purchases without knowing how much the actual cost is.

These extremely high shipping costs from the states are not limited to eBay and Amazon. I recently wanted to punches two Sunshine cloths but all the pen repair sites charged $20. plus for shipping and handling. I asked one if they could ship for less but they were unable to. I do NOT blame the merchants for this, but I can not afford to pay so much for postage. The Sunshine web store charged $50. For shipping!!

I also wonder about if refunds are a realistic hope. In the recent past, I have received refunds on postage from merchants outside the US. More recently, a seller from the States tried to refund an overcharge for postage but can not. I tried to figure out on my end but am new to eBay and they're explanation is unhelpful. So what is different between this latest attempt to refund and earlier successful attempts? I updated my eBay app for my iPad, have installed the new iOs and this merchant is in the US while the others were not. Which, if any of these are cause, I do not know. I have already spent much more time trying to get the refund through than the amount justifies, so will eat it too. Cost of purchasing from the US is now just too high for me.

 

Thoughts and comments most welcomed.

Edited October 7, 2013 by Tinjapan

[Guy007]

Tinjapan, as someone who sells a few things on ebay.ca (Coins, not pens) and only accepts Paypal, if you have been overcharged and you paid via paypal, it should be very easy for the seller to go into their paypal account where your payment is shown and select the drop down and click refund, then enter in the amount.

 

I hope this helps.

[Garageboy]

I was tempted to use this on ebay, because I got sick of people asking me to lie on customs forms, and the wait online to mail out international packages (I can be in and out of a post office in 5 minutes if domestic, because of the Automated Postal Center)

I don't want to alienate international buyers, either...

[Guy007]

@Garageboy, asking to lye on customs forms isn't cool, that's for sure. I would rather be charged by the post office as I find their fees more responable and like playing roulette where as with USP, FedEx, DHL et al you know you are going to pay taxes.

 

If you are selling an item on ebay and use their "print shipping label" which plugs into the Paypal shipping system for USPS, Canada Post and UPS and maybe others, but those for certain in US/Canada at least ( or if you just want to ship directly http://www.paypal.com/shipnow ) you should have no reason to wait inline as you are able to get everything done at home if you have a scale, measuring tape and a printer. Also depending on the shipping option choosen, up to a 10% cost reduction too. Then you just drop it off at the post office. The other good thing if it's for an ebay item, when you print the label it ties the number to Paypal and ebay and emails the person, no additional data entry mis typing needed.

 

I know this was a bit off topic, but it could be useful for people who sell/ship items and saves the post office wait.

[Tinjapan]

Prior to the GSP program, the cost of my shipping a pen to Europe/Australia/Asia from the US would be close to $40, using the cheapest method that has tracking, Int'l Priority. Now I can send the pen to Ebay's domestic US shipping center for under $5. So there are substantial savings for the US seller, presumably reflected in the prices charged. I understand the griping, but the cost of the pen and/or the customs % would have to be quite high for the customs hit to be more than the $35 in saved shipping. And my understanding is that in some countries, i.e., Germany, the odds of a package slipping by customs are low.

I have had to pay $30. On every item sent through the Global Shipping Program, no matter if the item cost $5. Or $300! AND not once I have been refunded on the excess import charges. I have bought around 100 pens on eBay and have never been charged import fees here in Japan on a pen. On other items, yes, but never on a pen. What, exactly, is my $30. Going to?

 

BTW, this is a problem I have encountered only when making a purchase from the States. Never a problem when buying from Canada, Great Britain, Germany, France, Spain, Italy, Australia, New Zealand nor even China. Just from the US.

Edited January 3, 2015 by Tinjapan