Blank Journals For Both Writing And Art (Including Watercolors)?

[Plume145]

Hi there :-)

 

I want to get my mother a journal, but I'm having a hard time finding something that works for both writing and art (including with wet stuff, like fountain pen inks or watercolors). Most of the stuff I find is either blank sketchbooks but the paper's too strongly textured for pen nibs and writing, or smooth paper but there's lines.

 

On top of that, I also need something that lays flat, and too many art journals and sketchbooks don't seem to.

 

Ideally, I'd like something that works on the principle of a cover with refills, but a simple book is okay as well - I might even be able to make a cover myself. Either way, it should be on the cheaper side to help prevent blank journal syndrome - let's say under $20 for a refill only (the cover shouldn't be more than $60) and if it's non-refillable, no more than $30. Size wise I'd like something medium-ish - not tiny like a pocket moleskine size, but not huge like A4 or whatever. Sort of A5-ish, and no bigger than an ipad in footprint or I don't see her hauling it around and I think that's an important part of what makes a good journal, the portability

 

I don't care about a closure or a bookmark or any bells and whistles like that. They're nice, but I can put them in myself without a problem - I do it all the time for my own notebooks so I can do it for my mother if she decides she'd like that stuff :-)

 

Any thoughts? Recommendations, cautionary tales, bright ideas?

 

Thanks!!

 

 

[restlesscourage]

Something like this, perhaps? (I don't have experience with the journals myself, but I've heard good things.)

[Plume145]

aah, right, I didn't think to say this, but it can't be spiral bound because even though it technically lays flat, the binding gets in the way so she doesn't like it, and she wouldn't be able to use the spread of the notebook to draw something.

 

Didn't think of this in my OP because I'd forgotten that there are wire bound journals - I tend to think of those as just notebooks and stuff, so I forgot

[HDoug]

Stillman & Birn makes sketchbooks using various papers. Iʻve been using the smooth Epsilon which is designed for "Pen & Ink, Colored Pencil, Water-based Markers & Watercolor." Great stuff for my fountain pens!

 

Doug

[Plume145]

Stillman & Birn makes sketchbooks using various papers. Iʻve been using the smooth Epsilon which is designed for "Pen & Ink, Colored Pencil, Water-based Markers & Watercolor." Great stuff for my fountain pens!

 

Doug

hmmm, that looks like a likely candidate. Does it lay flat though? I tried the pictures on the goulet site but I couldn't tell for sure. What's your experience?

[WC Lee]

Stillman & Birn makes sketchbooks using various papers. Iʻve been using the smooth Epsilon which is designed for "Pen & Ink, Colored Pencil, Water-based Markers & Watercolor." Great stuff for my fountain pens!

 

Doug

 

+1 the Epsilon is great but if you want to use really wet heavy washes then I would suggest the Zeta range with the heavier paper stock.

[HDoug]

hmmm, that looks like a likely candidate. Does it lay flat though? I tried the pictures on the goulet site but I couldn't tell for sure. What's your experience?

 

Flat enough:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7420/9481654501_51d800c66c.jpg

 

 

+1 the Epsilon is great but if you want to use really wet heavy washes then I would suggest the Zeta range with the heavier paper stock.

Iʻve never tried the Zeta which is also described as "smooth" but because itʻs heavier (270gsm vs 150 gsm of Epsilon), it probably is better with wet washes. My sketchbooks have yet to receive a sketch and must wait until I know how. I canʻt recommend them highly enough for the fountain pen, though. No bloating or feathering at all. Really wonderful.

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8123/8947541852_9822294d37_c.jpg

 

Doug

[Plume145]

wow, that IS perfect! It's definitely flat enough - I don't think she'd need it to stay as flat as a coptic binding or whatever - Great shading there as well! I think I'll go with the zeta because I know she uses 250-300gsm paper for most of her art already - seems like a good place to start, then if it's too thick she can switch to the epsilon later. Okay, I'll go find i! I don't think I can get it from the goulets, unfortunately, because shipping is going to be a female dog, but I'm sure I can find it elsewhere!!

[Plume145]

ugggh, you guys! I was all set on these S&B sketchbooks, but I can't find them anywhere unless I pay like twice the price of the sketchbook on shipping! wth? Almost everyone uses Priority or more expensive methods, like the dreaded couriers.

 

!@#$%^&. I really don't see this happening. I tried all of the online stores listed on the Stillman and Birn website, too. Well except Dick Blick, but I'd tried that a few months ago on something a lot smaller and lighter - a mini sharpie! - and their quote was like $30, so obviously for the sketchbook it's not going to be any better.

 

*kicks desk* Any other suggestions?

 

grrr

[aenjin]

DickBlick is probably your best bet -- they often have free shipping deals and the minimum varies (it looks like $45 at the moment until the end of today) so my suggestion would be to watch their site and order it alongside some other supplies or items you wouldn't mind having.

[Plume145]

DickBlick is probably your best bet -- they often have free shipping deals and the minimum varies (it looks like $45 at the moment until the end of today) so my suggestion would be to watch their site and order it alongside some other supplies or items you wouldn't mind having.

Yeah, that's for the CONUS. I'm in Greece. Bummer

[aenjin]

Oh darn, that's my bad, sorry. Maybe you could advertise on FPN to do a stationary exchange with stuff from Greece? Otherwise I hope you'll be able to find something that your mother will like.

[HDoug]

Oohhhhh. Greece. Stillman & Birn are great bargains for us in the US because they are an American product. Let's see. Kunst & Papier, the Dutch sketchbook? Would those be cheaper in Greece?

 

Doug

[Plume145]

Oh darn, that's my bad, sorry. Maybe you could advertise on FPN to do a stationary exchange with stuff from Greece? Otherwise I hope you'll be able to find something that your mother will like.

I'd love to do a stationery exchange but unfortunately there's not a whole lot of stationery made in Greece! Most of it is manufactured elsewhere, and of the stuff that's locally made, most of it is basic workaday sorts of things - nothing too fine or cute or otherwise unusual. There used to be a thriving industry to serve the local market, but it's all gone now. So there isn't much I could offer in return.

 

The problem I keep running into is that even if I find a sketchbook in a shop and look at it or crack one open, I can't tell whether it would work just by feeling up the paper, lol. My mom can do that, I think, but I sort of want it to be a surprise, and given I can't draw to save my life, she'll figure it out right away if I ask her whether this or that paper would work for wet media If there are any EU-based (or just UK-based) artists on the forum they'd know, but most FPNers are based in North America from what I can tell. So it would have to be a UK/EU member, who also likes to do art, and then they also have to come across my thread...kind of a long shot, yeah?

 

Oohhhhh. Greece. Stillman & Birn are great bargains for us in the US because they are an American product. Let's see. Kunst & Papier, the Dutch sketchbook? Would those be cheaper in Greece?

 

Doug

ooh, those look really nice! I love the idea of the colorful covers - really changes things up from the usual black cover sketchbook. Ironically the EU website is really really basic compared to the one for the North American distributor: just a static list of the types of books and a notice to 'write about distributors in your area' (seriously? So 20th century hehe) but anyway I did, hopefully they stay on top of email responses.

 

But if you guys have heard good things about other brands or types, I'd love to hear it because even with that I still need to figure out which type to get!

 

Otherwise I guess the only way is to trawl the local shops and beg to be allowed to test the paper. Not feeling terribly sanguine about that because apart from apparel, 'try before you buy' is a concept utterly alien to greek retail, but maybe the stars will line up right and some small-time specialty store will let me

[WirsPlm]

Miquelrius worked well for a school notebook and I think is based in Spain. Not sure how it would work for lots and lots of water, though. They do different types of paper in different notebook lines. Might be worth trying out?

Edited August 12, 2013 by WirsPlm

[inkstainedruth]

To the OP:
Do you have any sort of art supply store near where you live? You may be able to explain what you want to a knowledgeable sales clerk and get recommendations for appropriate brands, and also see firsthand if the paper and binding are what you want.

If you were in the US, and/or had access to a Barnes and Noble Bookstore, I would recommend an Ecosystems sketchbook. Probably not as nice paper as the S&B ones (I don't know how well they would take watercolors, for instance), but I picked up a small one (3-1/2" x 5-1/2") recently and it has fairly decent paper for writing and sketching with a fountain pen (at least with my Rotring Art Pen, which has an EF nib). I got mine on sale (30% off) which made it a fair amount cheaper than a similarly sized Leuchtturm1917. They come in different sizes and with different types of paper (blank, grid and and lined), open fairly flat and are supposed to be 100% post-consumer recycled paper. They have a website, www.ecosystemlife.com, and you may be able to order directly from them (but might again have issue with the cost of shipping).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[WC Lee]

Fabriano makes some nice art papers (Italy)

 

Arches Paper makes excellent watercolor paper (France)

 

Exacompta makes a decent sketchbook that can take light watercolor washes

[Plume145]

Miquelrius worked well for a school notebook and I think is based in Spain. Not sure how it would work for lots and lots of water, though. They do different types of paper in different notebook lines. Might be worth trying out?

oooh I remember those, used them a lot but mostly years ago as school notebooks. They are nice! Reasonably priced, come in several different sizes, and in all kinds of fun designs as well, all this and FP friendly! Literally what you'd call cheap and cheerful

 

Unfortunately from what I can tell they are mostly lined and/or wire-bound, both of which are a big no-no in this case. But thanks for telling me about them because I used to have a real soft spot for them, so it's nice to see they're still around and the quality is still as FP friendly as I remember

 

 

 

To the OP:

Do you have any sort of art supply store near where you live? You may be able to explain what you want to a knowledgeable sales clerk and get recommendations for appropriate brands, and also see firsthand if the paper and binding are what you want.

If you were in the US, and/or had access to a Barnes and Noble Bookstore, I would recommend an Ecosystems sketchbook. Probably not as nice paper as the S&B ones (I don't know how well they would take watercolors, for instance), but I picked up a small one (3-1/2" x 5-1/2") recently and it has fairly decent paper for writing and sketching with a fountain pen (at least with my Rotring Art Pen, which has an EF nib). I got mine on sale (30% off) which made it a fair amount cheaper than a similarly sized Leuchtturm1917. They come in different sizes and with different types of paper (blank, grid and and lined), open fairly flat and are supposed to be 100% post-consumer recycled paper. They have a website, www.ecosystemlife.com, and you may be able to order directly from them (but might again have issue with the cost of shipping).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

That's pretty much the plan - try every art supply store in the area and see what I dig up. It's just that for specialized, niche items, it can be pretty hit and miss (heavy on the miss) to shop locally in this manner, so for those kinds of things my first port of call is shopping online - particularly when I'm looking for something I might want to repurchase again and again. Locally there are all kinds of issues with reliability such as whether stock will be available (even as a special order) or pricing, some of which are obviously related to the current economic situation but others are more long-standing problems surrounding the business culture in this country. So for all those reasons it's usually easier on one's sanity to find stuff online - not just do the research, but actually buy the goods as well.

 

Added to it, there used to be two well-stocked art supply shops in the area, but one business was forced out of their premises by skyrocketing rents (they're still around, but like two hours away...might as well just buy online) and another has kind of gone south because they replaced all the old-timers on the staff with new people who, while generally quite willing to help, don't know nearly as much about the goods. Usually whenever I'm there I know more than the staff, which is saying something since I really don't know a whole lot about fine-arts supplies - I know a bit about craft/DIY materials and about stationery, but not the fine arts stuff.

 

 

Fabriano makes some nice art papers (Italy)

 

Arches Paper makes excellent watercolor paper (France)

 

Exacompta makes a decent sketchbook that can take light watercolor washes

I found two exacompta sketchbooks: one had a black cover and silver edging on the pages, and it had some dedicated fans but was discontinued a couple of years ago, and the other is still available but might be more of a regular journal, just blank - the paper is pretty light. Which one did you have in mind?

 

Fabriano is one of the options. I know one stationer's here stocks fabriano stuff, so I'll try them. If they bring the stuff in with any regularity, it might work - the fabriano website ships using couriers so it's pretty expensive even though the notebooks are just taking a hop over the adriatic!

 

Also, thanks for reminding me about arches! I think I used to know about this but had completely forgotten about it. I will look into it though.

[WC Lee]

Exacompta discontinued the blank basic journals with the silver edging? I still see them on the Goulet website so I assumed they were still in production .. oh well ... anyhow the paper in the forum journals are not as good as the basic journals.

 

Another brand you might consider is Fiorentina (Italy) that isn't all that bad, but there are some conflicting reviews that might suggest paper quality inconsistency,

 

 

Canson (France) makes some watercolor sketchbooks but not sure how well the quality is as I never used any by them.

 

and of course Clairefontaine, one of the most obviously choices for fountain pen users , they do make a line of fine art products. But their fine stationery would be great for journaling or/and pen & ink sketching.

 

 

[Plume145]

yeah, that's my experience too when it comes to fiorentina - the first journal was great, the second was practically a paper towel hehe.

 

I don't know if the basic journals really have been discontinued, all I know is I found a lot of references to that around the web but who knows, maybe the outcry meant they backtracked on discontinuing them? I don't know. I was browsing the 2013 US catalog for Exacompta/Rhodia/CF/Herbin etc products, and I can see something similar under Journals, but I can't tell whether it's blank or lined - an open journal is shown next to the black, in the sort of tan color, and that one is lined (you'll find these towards the bottom of the page, look for the 993/ codes).

 

Clairefontaine is indeed always an option, but I'm just not sure how well it does with wet media - like watercolors. I think it would be great to have that option, if possible. So I'm wondering, when I go shopping for these, probably the best way to look for them is to ask for paper suitable for mixed media applications, right? I mean, it would be simpler than listing fountain pens, fountain pen inks, watercolors, and so on? Then I can just pick the right sort of size and ask them to see an opened book so I can check that it lays flat and that the paper is white and other stuff like that. What do you think?