The Death And Life Of Great Pen Stores

[meblamy]

  On 8/26/2013 at 4:20 PM, vondauster said:

Wow, what an interesting thread. Amid all of the suggestions for continued viability of BM pen stores, there is, in my opinion, one thing missing.

 

Handwriting itself.

 

If I owned a pen shop, I would be offering class - almost free - on calligraphy and perhaps even just an "Improve your penmanship" class focused on Palmer or D'Nealian. Spread the craft, and that is what writing is at its most basic, and you spread the demand for the tools of that craft. This is especially important for younger people who may not have been taught cursive to begin with but have an interest in it, and before you laugh I am asked constantly about my pens and complimented regularly on my writing by millennials. The treatment our young commenter received at Fahrney's is not untypical, and simply foolish on the part of the retailer.

 

My two cents.

 

Will

 

 

 

I know Fahrney's got slammed a bit earlier in this thread (and I've never had an experience like that there myself), but one thing they do is offer both writing and calligraphy seminars. They're not free (they bring someone in), but they are typically busy. The last time I was, 3-4 weeks ago, they were doing a handwriting seminar for young (as in probably middle school) children. And she was busy...

[CaptainDan]

  On 8/27/2013 at 11:51 PM, markofp said:

 

Marilyn.

 

 

 

And there is something that I think may have hurt them. I know that the store had a real problem with MB, there was some real bitterness there over God knows what. I was in Art Brown's probably once or twice a month, and the vast majority of times some other customer was asking to see Montblanc items. I can't tell you how many times I saw David or Pete or Warren go through the same routine, sending them up to the MB boutique on 57th, and by the way, can we show you this Sailor, this Pelikan, this Visconti? And it was always no, no and no. Last Christmas season I saw this probably five visits in a row, and I almost asked Warren if he was worried that he was cutting off his nose to spite his face. I don't know what MB is like to deal with on a retail basis, but it is a hugely popular and well established brand, and their lack of any MB product aside from a small amount of refills can't have done them any good.

 

I am curious as to just what the source of acrimony was - I always assumed that Art Brown did not carry Mont Blanc precisely because there are so many MB boutiques in New York, or at least in the New York metro area.

[bleair]

This news article is from 2012, so likely everyone here has already seen it, but I found it interesting:

 

This is the Washington Post talking about pens shops in the DC area. I think DC is a bit out of the norm compared to other parts of the US because the region has more Ph. D's and politicans than anywhere else , but it's a hopeful aritcle IMO. DC is funny too, because I'm pretty sure that when laws are being signed, staff for pliticans buy a zillion pens per week so that they can be used for an instant and then given out as "distinguished" pens to vistors of note/wealth/influence.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/rosenwald-md/post/with-fountain-pens-sales-thriving-maryland-is-the-top-nib/2012/05/29/gJQAX7G4yU_blog.html

 

"Lamy, a German maker with a distinctive Bauhaus design ethic, told the BBC that sales were up five percent in 2011. Amazon reports sales have doubled this year and have quadrupled since 2010."

 

From the article I do think that there is something to the uniqueness of how hand-written-fountain-pen wirting looks and feels and that constrasts nicely with all the online computer text that we read / type each day and that might explain a bit of the growing interest in FPs despite the convenience of cheap gel pens.

 

For myself, I'm learning about spencerian script and even just mixing variants of italic or other flourished into ones handwriting and I'm so thrilled with the results. I think of my own grade-school palmer style cursive as being so ugly, so I love the idea of real stores giving some introduction to people for how enjoy some fun / style in their writing.

 

In any case, I'll keep looking for real stores that I can buy from and will do so when it fits.

[bleair]

Just a short follow up. I visited Flax (in SF) a second time, and this time the contrast was amazing.

 

They were friendly. They were helpful. They answered my questions. They offered up ideas and things to try. It was great.

 

The first person I talked to behind the desk wasn't super knowledgeable about fountain pens, but he went off and got someone who was and she was outstanding. She demonstrated a few different styles of writing that she knew, she explained about things to notice between the various pens that she pulled out for me to try. All around a great experience. I'll be back to buy more of my stuff from them.

 

.... Maybe on my previous visit the people I talked to were just having a really really bad day and didn't want to talk to anyone.

[Cognaticrotty]

I HATE going to paradise pen near me....they are total a-holes. Never pay attention to the customer and always seem annoyed to have to answer questions to anyone..,I've been in there in a suit, and in jeans and a motorcycle vest. Same result each time.

 

I would MUCH rather deal with the goulet's shop...they are amazing and they CS is well above standards.

[scrivelry]

I don't think it is unprofessional to offer classes in penmanship/calligraphy at a pen shop - it is all in how you do it.

 

Aside from the occasional Adult Ed calligraphy class, there is no place in the US I know of for anyone to learn a particular hand, or even to write script at all, other than perhaps a pen or art supply shop that has classes.

 

There are classes that are set up to aggressively sell things, but it is very possible to say: "Kit for beginner's class, XX dollars, includes basic fountain pen and bottle of ink (or X number cartridges). If you already have a pen you want to use, ink is available." A store can even make a decision to sell such a kit at a nominal discount, or throw in, I don't know, a piece of blotter paper or some other little thing free as an incentive.

 

If you build a market and a relationship, people will respond. Some will come in, try out all your pens, and then go buy them online, but even they may use the store for ink, or recommend it to other people. The problem in this area is that real estate is high, and if you've owned your building for 30 years you can keep a small business going, but once the building is sold, whoever buys it wants the kind of rent the Gap or Starbucks can pay, not the kind of rent a small local business can reasonably pay, and this is true even where there are plenty of empty storefronts. Go figure.

 

I think it would be great to have Fountain Pen birthday parties, where someone came in and taught all the kids how to do something cool (Letter their name and a phrase in Italic? Make fancy squiggles? ) and the kids got a pen and some cartridges as their goody bag. Not any geekier, to my mind, than a magic show, and I can see some kids getting in to it...

Edited September 9, 2013 by scrivelry

[vondauster]

  On 9/9/2013 at 12:55 PM, Cognaticrotty said:

I HATE going to paradise pen near me....they are total a-holes. Never pay attention to the customer and always seem annoyed to have to answer questions to anyone..,I've been in there in a suit, and in jeans and a motorcycle vest. Same result each time.

 

I would MUCH rather deal with the goulet's shop...they are amazing and they CS is well above standards.

 

You mileage has certainly varied from my own in this regard. I have been shopping at Paradise Pens since 1989, since first visiting their original shop in downtown Denver. Over the years I have never received anything but good customer service at - now three - of their locations. My current shop in the Park Meadows retail splat south of Denver, the last open shop in this area, has provided exemplary service.

 

It's nice to be able to dip the occasional nib before buying.

 

Where is you local shop? I'm curious. I have no affiliation with Paradise Pens other than as a long tome customer, but I'd bet Pete Paradise would like to know more about it.

 

Will

[Vendome]

I'm lucky that in central Manchester there is a branch of a writing instrument specialist shop called The Pen Shop. (They're also online.) They cater for all price ranges in pens, accessories, etc. and have a very knowledgeable staff.

 

http://www.penshop.co.uk/

[Cognaticrotty]

  On 9/9/2013 at 4:28 PM, vondauster said:

You mileage has certainly varied from my own in this regard. I have been shopping at Paradise Pens since 1989, since first visiting their original shop in downtown Denver. Over the years I have never received anything but good customer service at - now three - of their locations. My current shop in the Park Meadows retail splat south of Denver, the last open shop in this area, has provided exemplary service.

 

It's nice to be able to dip the occasional nib before buying.

 

Where is you local shop? I'm curious. I have no affiliation with Paradise Pens other than as a long tome customer, but I'd bet Pete Paradise would like to know more about it.

 

Will

The Troy, michigan location at somerset mall.

[vondauster]

  On 9/9/2013 at 6:17 PM, Cognaticrotty said:

The Troy, michigan location at somerset mall.

 

Thanks - I will pass that along locally. It should get to their Corporate.

 

Will

[Cognaticrotty]

  On 9/9/2013 at 8:50 PM, vondauster said:

Thanks - I will pass that along locally. It should get to their Corporate.

 

Will

awesome. Thanks

 

 

The biggest problem I've found, is that any time you ask them for help it seems like a huge inconvenience to them...

[mrchan]

Interesting topic. Taking rent of B&M stores into account, paying salespersons etc, I recently wanted to buy the Legacy Heritage Black Palladium Cap Fountain Pen which I find absolutely lovely and vintagey.

 

Pengallery: $248

A local penshop here in Brisbane with an online website (not going to name it): $725

 

Is there any justification for selling this pen almost 3 times what other websites might be selling it for?

 

Yes yes I can test it at the B&M to ensure the nib is all smooth and stuff. Is it worth paying 3 times more? NO.

 

The local store also provides re-saccing service. To resac 1 pen, it costs $80. EVERYWHERE else ~$40.

 

Now I am probably like most of you financially wise, stable but not a whole lot of cash to fling around. For a B&M store to attract my attention, I'd be willing to perhaps pay..$330-350 max for this pen.

 

Even selling the pen online through their store, it still costs $725.

 

Pilot Iroshizuku inks= $50

Amazon: $23 including shipping.

 

Truly, I do want to support my local store but why must everything in the stores around my area cost >2 times the cost of everywhere else? Am I test dipping their ink like I might try with their pens? No.

 

Is it justified to pay retail to them? No.

 

Sorry, for me, the answer is a big fat, N-O.

[mrchan]

  On 8/15/2013 at 5:52 PM, MrsGouletPens said:

This is an interesting thread to me!

 

In theory, yes. Rent for a high-end retail storefront is definitely more expensive than our office/warehouse space (we have 12,000sf, in a somewhat rural/suburban area). But don't necessarily think of all online shops as just a single person in their bedroom, though many are like that! Some of us do have staff with wages and benefits to pay, utilities, insurance, all that fun stuff. We have 15 people on staff with us now. The bigger we get, the more our overhead goes up. The only difference between us and B&M stores is the rent and the write-off of products used for display/testing in a showroom. Then you keep growing and get into the Amazon beasts that we're also competing with, and they just have economies of scale that we can't compete with (like free shipping at $25, or same-day delivery). Sigh.

 

I have heard this too. That makes a huge difference! I'm not as concerned about FPH going out of business. They seem to be on much more solid financial ground.

 

I had a blah experience at the Paradise Pen in Tyson's Corner. They barely looked at us, wouldn't engage, didn't know the answers to our questions and didn't take us seriously as FP buyers. I guess because we weren't wearing suits? I don't know... I had the same experience with the employees at Levenger's, they didn't know what size nibs their pens had, what type of converter it used, etc. Everyone raves about the personal customer service in B&M stores, but I guess it's more based on the individual employees encountered. No doubt good ones exist, I just haven't had the luck of encountering any knowledgeable helpful folks yet.

 

Thanks! As for the B&M store, honestly I'm not sure! It would be a complete diversion from our business model, and we just aren't in a heavily populated area to justify it. Add increased rent and overhead, I don't know. I've seen so many B&M stores close up, even with a strong online presence (i.e. Swishers), it just isn't tempting. At least not in the foreseeable future. I know Brian has no interest in it.

Had a similar experience with Montblanc store in Brisbane with two of their salespeople. This other woman kept putting each and every pen away after I've tried it as though I was going to run away with it. This was a huge turn off. I was trying different nib sizes to see what I liked and that repeated action of hers was a massive annoyance to me.

 

The local penstore for me, out of 3 workers at the storefront, only 1 can give you adequate information. The other 2 are just unsure or provide wrong information constantly. They also gave a customer buying the same thing just before me a discount in front of my face and didn't want to give me the same price. Lol. I mean even if they were a more loyal customer, don't make it that obvious :/ At least lie to me that they bought some other pens in bulk or something that wasn't available..

 

So no, I shall be sticking to online retailers (Goulet, excellent job as always btw) or FPN sellers, or penboards.

[inkstainedruth]

Where I live, there is one old-time stationers' store (Downtown), and a couple of boutique type places in an upscale neighborhood (plus a similar type of place in the suburbs). I have been in all four. My experiences:

1) the place Downtown has a pen counter, and *sometimes* I've had good experiences. But if they don't *happen* to have ink in stock, you're up the creek. I hit it right one time, and got two bottles of Private Reserve, where the pen counter guy did a fingertip dip/swab so I could get an idea of the color. Last fall, I decided to order some other Private Reserve inks over the phone. It's now nearly 10 months later -- I keep checking in every now and again, but eventually bought the inks online at one of the "usual suspects" (in this case isellpens -- no affliliation except as a happy customer); at last check, which was a few months ago, the inks were still on backorder.

2) 1st place in the upscale neighborhood: mostly a card shop that has a bit of a lot of other things (journals, goofy party favors, and hipster t-shirts. They have some $400 pens -- definitely *not* in my budget) and, IIRC, Sheaffer and Aurora ink.

3) 2nd place in the same neighborhood -- a specialty stationers' that carries some journals like Rhodia, along with high end notecards. I think they carry Pelikan pens, and Retro 51 rollerballs; not sure about ink or cartridges.

4) Suburban store. Well, that's a bit of a poser, since the one time I went in they were having a big sale before moving to a different location (where I suppose the rents are a bit cheaper). Again, they were in a moderately upscale neighborhood. They, again, were mostly a card shop, along with some fancy wrapping paper and some journals. I think they also carried Pelikans, and some Italian pens, but of course they didn't have a big selection at that point (I went in there looking for a pen for my husband's niece's high school commencement, since she had been valedictorian of her class, but didn't really see anything much affordable.

There was one thing in common with *all* of these places -- issues with parking. Pittsburgh has some of the highest street parking rates around, and while #2 and #3 are just a couple of blocks from each other (and from a parking garage and lot), but parking can still be problematic (for the place Downtown, even if you can *find* street parking it's now 25¢ for 5 minutes -- so one has to either plan ahead for a quick dash in and out, circle the block a bunch of times, or have lots of change -- or a credit card for the meter box).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[WayTooManyHobbies]

  On 9/9/2013 at 9:31 PM, Cognaticrotty said:

awesome. Thanks

 

 

The biggest problem I've found, is that any time you ask them for help it seems like a huge inconvenience to them...

 

I have to say that the Troy, Michigan store has been a mixed bag for me. The customer service depends completely on who is working at any given time. There are a couple of employees who are excellent, and unquestionably fountain pen users. There is at least one who is gruff to say the least, but somewhat knowledgeable. Unfortunately, there are several who are uninterested in both the customers and the products they sell.

 

Their customers seem similar in that regard. I've been in the store having a purchase rung up when a Mont Blanc user virtually demanded immediate attention. It's a challenge for even a good salesperson to deal with that while other customers are in the midst of purchasing things.

[vondauster]

Customer service is sometimes tough. Retail is a hard job, and seldom well compensated. I'm sure most FPN members try to work with retailers in a courteous and understanding manner, as do I. And, we have the right to expect the same in return. On the other hand, my guess is that most of us can cite examples of overly "entitled" customer horror stories. I know I can.

 

I worked "retail banking" for a short time out of school (Head Teller). Man, never again! If you think people get demanding about pens, try dealing with their money...

 

Will

[Pen Nut]

Up here in the North West of England we had quite a good Montblanc boutique in Harvey Nicks which is bang in the centre of Manchester, very handy for a natter/browse when Mrs Pen Nut was out hunting for 'must have' bags etc but alas Last time I went in it was gone. Never mind thinks me, we still have Prestons Of Bolton which also has a great MB boutique but on my last visit this section of Prestons had bee closed down....... so that leaves me with the Pen Shop in the Trafford Centre or the Pen Shop in King street Manchester and to be honest they dont really go that deep into pens when you talk to the sales people.

 

Selfridges in the Trafford Centre do have a MB section but it is very small with limited stock. I was soured to this store when, a few years ago, I called in dressed in what can only be decribed as workwear. Curious to the cost of a Montblanc 149 on display I asked the assistant to which he replied " oh they are very expensive "

 

I did get revenge, no really I did

[Cognaticrotty]

I have been to the MB Store in the Somerset mall, and had an amazing experience. I rode my motorcycle up there, had my leather vest on (violent patches n all) and in general looked like a scumbag (lol.) and they were amazingly helpful. let me test out any pen in the store i wanted, didnt think twice about it either. I walked out of there with 4 new bottles of ink and a smile on my face.

[Florida Blue]

  On 9/10/2013 at 8:42 PM, Cognaticrotty said:

I have been to the MB Store in the Somerset mall, and had an amazing experience. I rode my motorcycle up there, had my leather vest on (violent patches n all) and in general looked like a scumbag (lol.) and they were amazingly helpful. let me test out any pen in the store i wanted, didnt think twice about it either. I walked out of there with 4 new bottles of ink and a smile on my face.

I had a similarly good experience at the MB boutique at the King of Prussia mall. I went in just to browse and the staff were so helpful. They let me try out every nib in the 146 tester kit and talked to me about the different nibs and the inks they were inked with. Plus I discussed the new Balzac WE and the Swift WE with the salesperson. I even got a free bottle of water!

 

I've only bought ink at MB boutiques, but I've always been treated well. I did take my 144 FP to be repaired at a boutique and they did it in-shop and very quickly. They replaced part of the barrel and cap which had cracked for a flat fee of $70.

[The Good Captain]

  On 9/10/2013 at 6:16 PM, Pen Nut said:

Up here in the North West of England we had quite a good Montblanc boutique in Harvey Nicks which is bang in the centre of Manchester, very handy for a natter/browse when Mrs Pen Nut was out hunting for 'must have' bags etc but alas Last time I went in it was gone. Never mind thinks me, we still have Prestons Of Bolton which also has a great MB boutique but on my last visit this section of Prestons had bee closed down....... so that leaves me with the Pen Shop in the Trafford Centre or the Pen Shop in King street Manchester and to be honest they dont really go that deep into pens when you talk to the sales people.

 

Selfridges in the Trafford Centre do have a MB section but it is very small with limited stock. I was soured to this store when, a few years ago, I called in dressed in what can only be decribed as workwear. Curious to the cost of a Montblanc 149 on display I asked the assistant to which he replied " oh they are very expensive "

 

I did get revenge, no really I did :)buying something there.

I thought the original theme of this topic was about pen shops not just Montblanc 'boutiques' in other over-priced shops. as franchises. If only the Trafford Centre gave discount vouchers at the parking meters, then I suppose I might have considered shopping there. Thankfully, I no longer have to consider the Manchester prices. And I used to go to Old Trafford when football was real.

That's 'soccer' for those of you who shop in other areas. And note that this Brit still used proper English terms.