The Death And Life Of Great Pen Stores

[pencils+pens]

  Quote

I would wager (and invest if I were able) that if Brian Goulet ever decided to open a B&M in addition to his online presence he would be successful!

As much as I like GPC, I doubt he would be successful with a retail store. For one, he couldn't open where he is now. He lives in a small town which probably couldn't support it. He would have to locate the store in a much higher income and population area which would mean higher rent. If he moved his whole operation there, he would have to increase his on-line prices to help offset the added cost. Further, the time needed to run and supervise a retail operation would be taken from the things they do to make GPC a success.

 

  Quote

In their minds, this is the B&M's fault for having a higher retail price.

They forget that higher price pays salesman's salaries and commissions, higher rents than the on-line only sellers pay and all the fancy furniture and display cases that highlight the pens they are trying out. The try-out pens are another cost factor that the on-line sellers don't have. A retail store cannot sell a try-out pen as new, at best, if they are honest, they can sell it as a used dipped pen. Some of my first fountain pens were bought at deep discounts at the Levenger discount store in Delray Beach (now closed). They were the dipped display pens.

Edited August 11, 2013 by pencils+pens

[Elizabeth in NJ]

I believe in voting with my dollars, and B&M generally gets most-favored status with me. I agree that it is crappy to try out a pen/product in a store then buy it online for a lower price. I haven't done it myself thus far, but that's not to say it will never happen.

 

1. B&M stores MUST re-evaluate their pricing structures if they are going to survive.

 

2. "Online" isn't some faceless corporate monolith. In the FP world, "online" is mostly made up of actual people, pen enthusiasts such as ourselves. As much as we want to see B&M stores survive, we also want to see our favorite online retailers survive and prosper. They offer much more than just lower prices. They give us piles of information, huge selections, hard-to-find products, vintage pens and repair products, etc.

 

So let's say I did decide to go ahead and buy that Lamy 2000 that I've been considering for a while.

 

Paradise Pens -- $199, M nib only. I prefer a F. Maybe they could special-order a F? I dunno. I did try out a Lamy 2000 there a while ago. I told them that I wasn't planning to buy one anytime soon, but they urged me to try it so I did. I've had very good service at Paradise Pens and I'd like to buy it there.

 

GouletPens -- $159 with a choice of all 4 nibs, 6 bucks shipping. As I'm a regular Goulet customer and I like supporting them. Hmm...

 

isellpens.com -- $130 and $122 on sale! All 4 nibs and free shipping. Holy smokes! I've never bought from this site but they have a good reputation and some interesting items. Happy to support them.

 

As much as I want to buy it from Paradise Pens, a $78 price difference and the nib I want with no fuss wins hands-down. I guess I would join the ranks of people who tried a pen at B&M and bought online. I wouldn't Paradise them to be able to match the isellpens.com price, but I don't see any reason they couldn't match the 20% off list that Goulet offers.

 

 

[tfwall]

  On 8/11/2013 at 5:34 PM, Elizabeth in NJ said:

As much as I want to buy it from Paradise Pens, a $78 price difference and the nib I want with no fuss wins hands-down. I guess I would join the ranks of people who tried a pen at B&M and bought online. I wouldn't Paradise them to be able to match the isellpens.com price, but I don't see any reason they couldn't match the 20% off list that Goulet offers.

 

 

 

How about because they are offering all these other amenities that the Goulets are not and therefor have more costs? Things like maintaining a showroom in a desirable retail area with "tester" pens available. Now certainly, if this isn't something that you personally value, then by all means vote with your dollars.

 

B&M shops offer more services than online merchants and drop shippers, but they are presently stuck using the same economic model. That is, they can only make money by selling the same pens and inks as their competitors who have lower overhead. Perhaps shops could re-evaluate their marketing model, would you be willing to pay a $15 door charge to browse a shop if their prices were all 20% less than MSRP? Alternately, they could charge full MSRP to walk-ins but if you booked a 20 min curated appt for $50, they could match any domestic online price on merchandise they carry. If you are psychologically anchored to the idea that pens go for 20% less than MSRP, but you want the convenience and service of a local shop, then the money needs to come from somewhere.

Edited August 11, 2013 by Chemyst

[Illegible]

Two things strike me as important for a retail business - selection and service.

Selection - Stores must carry what people want to buy. Granted we are a fickle bunch so that is difficult. Eye candy is nice but not many of us can afford to shop in a store that looks like Pen World magazine. I don't think looking at a $3,000 pen will entice me to buy a $300 Pelikan.

Service - Not just a real life sales person, but someone who know about what he/she is selling. With so many newcomers becoming interested in pens it must be an educational experience. I have paid way more in a store than what I would have paid on-line. But they had it in stock and helped me make an educated purchase.

I love pen and pen stores but it's a seven hour drive (one way) to Dromgoole's. That makes it difficult to shop there.

All that said, I hope the remaining stores can stay in business.

[Fleetlord]

  On 8/11/2013 at 4:51 PM, pencils+pens said:

I think St Hubert moved to Aventura at the Aventura Mall. At least, their website still works. I haven't been there yet. It would be about an hour drive.

 

There used to be an independent pen store in the Gardens Mall. They closed up shop about 10 years ago. There is a MB Boutique there now.

 

It's long gone. They moved to Mizner, then went under from there...

 

There were some Crane paper stores around. I rembemer one in Boca. They also had a pretty god selection of pens. They are gone now.

 

Levenger had a retail store in Boca. It's gone.

 

Funny how Levenger has their corporate office in Delray Beach, but no stores in the state . Not even their outlet store survived...lol Florida has to be the WORST state for pen collecting....

[Gloucesterman]

  On 8/11/2013 at 4:51 PM, pencils+pens said:

I think St Hubert moved to Aventura at the Aventura Mall. At least, their website still works. I haven't been there yet. It would be about an hour drive.

 

There used to be an independent pen store in the Gardens Mall. They closed up shop about 10 years ago. There is a MB Boutique there now.

 

Just went to their web site - the link you posted - They don't seem to sell on the Web. their site is a static brochure (better than nothing) so I have no idea, if I were interested in going there, what I would find.

 

This is a good example of a store that could use the web to post information and use their site as a constant resource to connect with customers and non customers alike.

 

The pictures look very nice, but unless I was fairly close by I wouldn't bother to drive very far to "visit".

 

In the pen paper, errr, "Luxury Writing Instruments & Fine Stationery business, the hidden gem doesn't work very well.

 

Again,

Just my .02 cents worth.

[Fleetlord]

I'll admit that I am a voracious pen collector...that being said I cannot afford to pay "retail"...

 

Here is a recent example.

 

I fancied a Montblanc 146P Fine Nib.

 

Retail at the MB boutique is $755.00 after 6.5% sales tax it would be $804.08 ! Yes, $804.08 !

 

So, here is what happened...

 

I found (on the sales forum) a NIB never inked 146P with box and papers from a boutique for $290.00

 

Then Paradise pen sent me a 20% off email. I noticed they had a Parker Premiere Titanium on sale from $447.00 to $249. I took the 20% off that price. That's now $200. $8 shipping = $208

 

Then I got an email from Overstock for 15% off. They have some Porsche Design pens. Hmm. The Pure Black is there. Retail is $545. They have it for $418...then with 15% off...That's $358 shipped...sold.

 

So, let's tally that up.

 

MB 146p @ boutique = $805.00

 

or

 

Preowoned MB146P = $290

 

Parker Premeire $208

 

Porsche Design Pure $356

 

Total $854.00

 

I spent $49 more and got (3) pens..including the one I was after initially....lol

 

If I had bought all those at full retail it would have been approx. $1860 after taxes...yikes...

 

That's why the retail B&M business model really can't work for me...

Edited August 11, 2013 by Fleetlord

[Gloucesterman]

  On 8/11/2013 at 5:34 PM, Elizabeth in NJ said:

I believe in voting with my dollars, and B&M generally gets most-favored status with me. I agree that it is crappy to try out a pen/product in a store then buy it online for a lower price. I haven't done it myself thus far, but that's not to say it will never happen.

 

1. B&M stores MUST re-evaluate their pricing structures if they are going to survive.

 

2. "Online" isn't some faceless corporate monolith. In the FP world, "online" is mostly made up of actual people, pen enthusiasts such as ourselves. As much as we want to see B&M stores survive, we also want to see our favorite online retailers survive and prosper. They offer much more than just lower prices. They give us piles of information, huge selections, hard-to-find products, vintage pens and repair products, etc.

 

So let's say I did decide to go ahead and buy that Lamy 2000 that I've been considering for a while.

 

Paradise Pens -- $199, M nib only. I prefer a F. Maybe they could special-order a F? I dunno. I did try out a Lamy 2000 there a while ago. I told them that I wasn't planning to buy one anytime soon, but they urged me to try it so I did. I've had very good service at Paradise Pens and I'd like to buy it there.

 

GouletPens -- $159 with a choice of all 4 nibs, 6 bucks shipping. As I'm a regular Goulet customer and I like supporting them. Hmm...

 

isellpens.com -- $130 and $122 on sale! All 4 nibs and free shipping. Holy smokes! I've never bought from this site but they have a good reputation and some interesting items. Happy to support them.

 

As much as I want to buy it from Paradise Pens, a $78 price difference and the nib I want with no fuss wins hands-down. I guess I would join the ranks of people who tried a pen at B&M and bought online. I wouldn't Paradise them to be able to match the isellpens.com price, but I don't see any reason they couldn't match the 20% off list that Goulet offers.

 

 

 

What you mentioned is a great example of a poor sales and marketing approach by B&M - imho.

 

Just checked out FPH for the Lamy I think you mentioned. They have it for $159.00 same as Goulet. I know that in the past (its been a while) when I was at the local Paradise Pen Store, they would price match places like FPH, BUT YOU HAD TO ASK! And they might/probably check verify it before they simply said "Sold".

 

If you think about it from a business perspective, it's impossible for a B&M to run at the same economy of scale as an online business. They have considerable more overhead.

 

Again, as I mentioned in my original post manufacturers have to work with the dealers as well. For example, provide the dealer with a free or deeply discounted demonstrator pen with the full range of nibs for changing/testing. Train the sales person to ask questions of the customer and determine their level of interest and seriousness. If the customer has used the pen and nib right there, offer a discount on the actual pen (the one they are using) they are using. If they like the way that pen writes, there is little to no risk that they will be unhappy when they get home. This differs greatly, based on some of the threads here on FPN, from the buying experience of people who have purchased online and then found the nib to be unsatisfactory.

 

As for the price at isellpens.com, Todd is a good guy and a good business person (imho and with no affiliation), if he is selling is selling the same pen, on sale, at a discount, it's probably because he wants to unload it asap. He has money tied up in it which he want to use NOW. If it's a $200 pen which he is selling for $130 ( think you said) then he probably is still making money on it and he is getting it out of inventory, getting $$ in hand and creating a customer, who will definitely check back for other "bargains" many times in the future. That's just good business.

 

If you could peak at the accounting ledgers of a Paradise Pen store and isellpens.com you would find that there is a "slight" difference in overhead. Things like store expenses, employee pay and benefits, returns, stolen items, liability insurance, local taxes, etc.

 

As consumers, what we see and in many cases make our choices (for known quality products) on are primarily two factors - what's the price and is this seller/business dependable (honest & trustworthy). There are many more judgments going through our minds when we go into a store.

Just my .02 cents worth.

[Gloucesterman]

  On 8/11/2013 at 6:25 PM, Fleetlord said:

I'll admit that I am a voracious pen collector...that being said I cannot afford to pay "retail"...

 

Here is a recent example.

 

I fancied a Montblanc 146P Fine Nib.

 

Retail at the MB boutique is $755.00 after 6.5% sales tax it would be $804.08 ! Yes, $804.08 !

 

So, here is what happened...

 

I found (on the sales forum) a NIB never inked 146P with box and papers from a boutique for $290.00

 

Then Paradise pen sent me a 20% off email. I noticed they had a Parker Premiere Titanium on sale from $447.00 to $249. I took the 20% off that price. That's now $200. $8 shipping = $208

 

Then I got an email from Overstock for 15% off. They have some Porsche Design pens. Hmm. The Pure Black is there. Retail is $545. They have it for $418...then with 15% off...That's $358 shipped...sold.

 

So, let's tally that up.

 

MB 146p @ boutique = $805.00

 

or

 

Preowoned MB146P = $290

 

Parker Premeire $208

 

Porsche Design Pure $356

 

Total $854.00

 

I spent $49 more and got (3) pens..including the one I was after initially....lol

 

If I had bought all those at full retail it would have been approx. $1860 after taxes...yikes...

 

That's why the retail B&M business model really can't work for me...

 

I'll bet you have a lot of fun at yard sales and flea markets, don't you! :thumbup:

And obviously you are a very astute buyer as well.

Finally, my perception of people who purchase luxury items at the brand's boutique store, are people for whom the additional $500. for the new MB pen is not really that important. Oh yes, and don't forget the $30 for the three hours of parking for their Mercedes, while they shopped

Edited August 11, 2013 by brgmarketing

[Fleetlord]

  On 8/11/2013 at 6:50 PM, brgmarketing said:

 

I'll bet you have a lot of fun at yard sales and flea markets, don't you! :thumbup:

And obviously you are a very astute buyer as well.

Finally, my perception of people who purchase luxury items at the brand's boutique store, are people for whom the additional $500. for the new MB pen is not really that important. Oh yes, and don't forget the $30 for the three hours of parking for their Mercedes, while they shopped

 

 

You're absolutely right. $500 to that crowd is nothing...Not worth the trouble to find one cheaper...

 

But with that $500, I could do a lot...either with my pen collection..or life expenses...

 

BTW that Porsche Pure is $649 at their boutique. With tax, it's $691.00

 

I bought the EXACT same pen, NIB from Overstock for $356.00 Brand New. Writes like a champ...

 

I saved $335 from buying it at the boutique....and this isn't a used or fako pen...

 

That's real money folks. Real money..

[Elizabeth in NJ]

  On 8/11/2013 at 5:49 PM, Chemyst said:

 

How about because they are offering all these other amenities that the Goulets are not and therefor have more costs? Things like maintaining a showroom in a desirable retail area with "tester" pens available. Now certainly, if this isn't something that you personally value, then by all means vote with your dollars.

 

And online sites offer amenities that B&M stores don't offer. There is a place for both online retailers and B&M stores in the world of FPs. Please don't put words in my mouth. And you seem to have misunderstood the entire point of my post. I do vote with my dollars--for B&M stores. If you leave vintage pens out of the equation, I've spent a good bit more money in B&M pen stores than I've spent with online retailers. For example, I have 22 bottles of ink. 13 are from either Paradise Pens, Art Brown, or Fountain Pen Hospital. You're preaching to the choir.

[Florida Blue]

  On 8/11/2013 at 4:37 AM, elysee said:

Contact with customers via email and via printed catalogs (providing product details and pictures) sent by snail-mail and a store's having a fully functional web site with pictures and product details can have an effect on sales but that alone is not sufficient. Having sales from time to time attracts customers, and having sales/discounts enables a store to sell older and discontinued products. Providing needed services (for example, pen repairs, shipping to pen companies for nib exchange or pen exchange, and guidance/information for pen-buyers), accessories, related items, refills (wide variety including those which are hard to find), and inks as well as selling vintage pens/pencils (possibly on consignment) would attract (loyal) customers. In addition, allowing customers to try pens/pencils and inks before buying would provide opportunities for customer-store bonding as well as for items (inked pens, used ballpoint/rollerball pens and pencils, and discontinued partially-filled ink bottles) for sales.

Well, FPH has most (if not all of that), which is why I think they are still thriving. They have a "specials" and "back room" section where they sell new and NOS pens at good discounts, they repair new and vintage pens (I don't think they adjust nibs), they exchange nibs and send pens back to the manufacturer, owners and staff are extremely knowledgable, they sell pen repair supplies and many different brands/colors of bottled ink, they actually have an impressive selection of vintage pens for a shop that sells new pens and you can always try before you buy. I think this is what makes them great, but to be completely fair, Art Brown offered all of those services (except repair), often a better selection, better hours and location, but they still went out of business. My theory was that they did not do enough to promote themselves outside of Manhattan.

 

(No affiliation with FPH, just a happy customer)

Edited August 11, 2013 by Florida Blue

[Laura N]

  On 8/11/2013 at 7:19 PM, Fleetlord said:

 

 

You're absolutely right. $500 to that crowd is nothing...Not worth the trouble to find one cheaper...

 

But with that $500, I could do a lot...either with my pen collection..or life expenses...

 

BTW that Porsche Pure is $649 at their boutique. With tax, it's $691.00

 

I bought the EXACT same pen, NIB from Overstock for $356.00 Brand New. Writes like a champ...

 

I saved $335 from buying it at the boutique....and this isn't a used or fako pen...

 

That's real money folks. Real money..

 

I don't see that. People who buy from the MB Boutique may want a new pen with warranty. They may appreciate the store's service. They may buy on impluse. They may be buying a gift. They may want it right away. They may not know about fountain pen forums, and they may not want to trawl them, or the rest of the internet, for weeks or months to find a used pen, with all the risk that entails.

 

There are a lot of reasons people buy all manner of things new, and at a particular store.

[tfwall]

  On 8/11/2013 at 7:40 PM, Laura N said:

 

I don't see that. People who buy from the MB Boutique may want a new pen with warranty. They may appreciate the store's service. They may buy on impluse. They may be buying a gift. They may want it right away. They may not know about fountain pen forums, and they may not want to trawl them, or the rest of the internet, for weeks or months to find a used pen, with all the risk that entails.

 

There are a lot of reasons people buy all manner of things new, and at a particular store.

 

True.

 

Consider also the desire to keep the "demand signal" for a particular item up. You stop buying a commodity from monitored channels, the manufacturer sees a drop in demand and adjusts accordingly. That may drive prices for that item up or cause the manufacturer to drop it from their line all together. If you buy used or grey market goods, you are not supporting the continued manufacturing of that item, regardless of how much you may like it and gush about it on online bulletins boards. This is particularly worrisome when you are already talking about a niche market.

[JessR45]

The most pleasurable aspect of my FP hobby is going to a B&M shop and peruse my next objects of desire and interact with the folks that man the store. To touch and feel and perhaps to try a pen that has caught my eye is in my mind an essential step in the acquisition process. But I think the day will come when the remaining B&Ms will eventually fold unless they quickly change their business model. I suppose selling online or diversifying is the future; the B&M alone I believe cannot survive just by face to face sales. I try my best to purchase my stuff at B&Ms, however nutcases like me are by far too few in numbers and in frequency to make a dent. I would like to think I am honoring the B&M's effort to stay in business by buying the item I desire from them, even if I saw a better deal online.

[georges zaslavsky]

I always go shopping at my favorite penshop even if I don't find the pen I want, I give my wish list to my favorite penshop owner who then emails or calls me when he has the pen I want then I come to his shop to buy it. I also buy inks at his shop.

[tce]

My local B&M, penbox, is in a small village/town about 20 miles away. It is a small shop but they keep good stock of several brands across the price range that is regularly refreshed, offer an excellent selection of inks, a range of nib sizes for some pens, and often have some vintage pens available for sale. Prices are very competitive and what isn't in stock can usually be ordered. A 'phone call or email establishes what is in stock or how long it might take for an order. I discovered them about 15 months ago through an internet search and I keep going back, rarely leaving without spending rather more than I intended! It is always a pleasant place to visit and I prefer to purchase from them.

 

Penbox also deals online.

 

They seem to have got the formula right.

Edited August 11, 2013 by tce

[sidewinderwcc]

I have always held Fountain Pens and Paintball B&M stores in the same regard.

 

I live in dallas, which saw a very large increase in paintball activity around 2005. Many paintball fields (places that paintball players go to play other players) opened up within 50 miles of one another. Now, there are only three fields left and only two stores left out of the dozens of each that were available.

 

I am close to one of the store owners and have heard his plight many times. People can get the Paintball Markers (guns) cheaper online and because most people that play paintball are in their teens, the cheaper price is the most inportant factor. However, Paintball markers are finicky, especially if not taken care of properly and the market around here desperately needed a store that had someone on hand to fix markers and to install "upgrades" that the store sold. But, sadly, the owner only had one marker technician and there was a two week minimum on gun repairs or installation. (All of the other stores did not even offer this service)

 

Even though I was a friend to the employees, even I thought that this was ridiculous. If you are going to thrive in a hard market, you need to be able to serve the markets niche needs that customers cannot get anywhere else.

 

When I started on my fountain pen journey, the only B&M store around me was a pen paradise franchise. They only carried a handful of brands and, more importantly, only had one or two sizes of nibs for their pens in stock at a time.

 

I am still in my twenties and try to save as much money as I can. However, if a B&M store was to open that could fix and adjust pens on the spot, I would buy from them everytime. Most of my pens are bought online stores such as Nibs.com and Richardspens.com (no relation) becuase they make sure that the pen writes the way you wish before they send it to you. If a store opened, even if it was relatively small, as long as they could get a pen writing the way that I would like it as soon as I bought it, I would definitely buy from them even with the higher price tag that they would most certainly have to have.

 

The only reason I think that this is something most people would agree with is becuase of all the posts on this forum asking about pen sizes, feel, weight, etc. We, as pen buyers, are forced to ask these questions from owners of the pens we would like to have becuase we have nowhere to go to try out the pen ourselves.

 

So, to wrap up this entirely to long of a post, I think that people that would like to open a pen store would benefit from looking at the paintball industry and it's rapid decline. No matter the business, there is always a place for an innovative company that can fill consumer needs, you just have to figure out that need.

[Runnin_Ute]

  On 8/11/2013 at 6:04 PM, brgmarketing said:

 

Just went to their web site - the link you posted - They don't seem to sell on the Web. their site is a static brochure (better than nothing) so I have no idea, if I were interested in going there, what I would find.

 

This is a good example of a store that could use the web to post information and use their site as a constant resource to connect with customers and non customers alike.

 

The pictures look very nice, but unless I was fairly close by I wouldn't bother to drive very far to "visit".

 

In the pen paper, errr, "Luxury Writing Instruments & Fine Stationery business, the hidden gem doesn't work very well.

 

Again,

Just my .02 cents worth.

This sounds like a local stationery store here who does have a web presence, is located in this funky cool mall near downtown Salt Lake. (the buildings were originally trolley barns, back when SLC had a trolley car service) http://www.tabularasastationers.com/

http://www.trolleysquare.com/

 

Now it is not horribly far from where I live - 10-15 miles tops, but I just don't get to that part of town very often, and when I do it is for very specific reasons and I don't have time to stop in. According to their website they carry Mont Blanc, Graf Von Faber-Castell, Faber-Castell, Parker, Cross, Waterman, Montegrappa, Visconti pens. Looking at the mall map it is a pretty good sized store. I imagine the bulk of their revenue comes from wedding announcements and the like.

 

I have purchased all my pens online or catalog. (Levenger, Goulet, FPN Classifieds)

 

Looks like just for the papers it would be worth visiting. (G. Lalo, Rhodia, Crane, Original Crown Mill and others)

[Garageboy]

FP, cigars, wet shaving, all attract the same kind of crowds

Why is there not a shop that encompass these and more?

 

Why can't there be a B&H of fountain pens? (competitive pricing AND a B&M?)