Scratchy Nib

August 8, 2013

Are you holding the pen after the big index finger knuckle and or into the web of your thumb?

Many still hole a fountain pen like a BP, before that knuckle and it will be scratchy.

95% of scratchy is wrong grip or misaligned tines.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

August 8, 2013

Well, as it seems, I'm dealing with a scratchy nib as well. First it wouldn't write, there was no ink flow, but I corrected the tines and now its a wet writer.

But the nib is scratchy. I was able to bring it to a bearable range, I think I need a loupe and micro-mesh to get it smoother....placed order for both.

August 8, 2013

@proton

You cannot properly align the tip without a loupe. The tips could be out of alignment by a tiny amount and w/o a loupe you would not be able to see the miss-alignment.

And you want 10x or more magnification.

What size tip are you using and what kind of paper?

F tips are more likely to be scratchy.

The paper has an effect on scratchiness. It is the lack of smoothness of the surface that causes the scratchiness. This is most apparent with XF and F tips, but can also be felt with M tips.

August 8, 2013

Are you holding the pen after the big index finger knuckle and or into the web of your thumb?

Many still hole a fountain pen like a BP, before that knuckle and it will be scratchy.

95% of scratchy is wrong grip or misaligned tines.

Since I don't hold my FP any differently than I'd hold a pencil or a BP, I am doing something wrong to one of the three, if they are not supposed to all be the same. Can anyone point me to a video of what I should be doing???

T

August 8, 2013

@proton.........
What size tip are you using and what kind of paper?.........

Medium tip. Different types of paper.

I suspect the tips may be too tightly pressed together because pressing down on the tip starts the ink flowing but then the flow drops off soon after.

August 8, 2013

Since I don't hold my FP any differently than I'd hold a pencil or a BP, I am doing something wrong to one of the three, if they are not supposed to all be the same. Can anyone point me to a video of what I should be doing???

T

The way I hold it is to basicly lay the pen on your middle finger and between your thumb and index finger, on the webbing. Both places suporting the pen, and then just rest the index finger on top of the pen to keep it from moving around, and to help guide it. This keeps the pressure on the nib down, and reduces stress and fatigue on your hand. My actual grip on the pen is light enough that, if I were to flip my hand upside down, the pen would flip down away from the web between my thumb and index finger.

I can't say that's the proper way, but the way I found makes writing more comfortable, and also prevents me from digging into the paper like I would with a ballpoint pen. People tend to pinch pencils and BP pens between their index and middle finger, which results in the indentations you will get after writing for a while, as well as the need to stretch and relax the muscles in the hand, due to some mild to severe cramping.

August 8, 2013

Sorry, I should have thought of the grip earlier, in I often offer that advice.

In search 'Classic Tripod' and in 'Death Grip' are pictures, and written descriptions.

I use the 'forefinger up' method of grasping a fountain pen, a variation of the Tripod. (I would not go back to the Classic Tripod my self. I learned that here about three years ago, after 55 years of using the "death grip'..

First though you should become familiar with the Classic Tripod before investigating the 'forefinger up' variant.

I find the f'orefinger up' gives an automatic light grip...takes about 3 minutes to learn. A couple of us use that and it is covered in those threads.

It does not take months to learn how to grip a pen lightly like the Classic Tripod, in I am grasping the pen, not gripping it. To me gripping means holding hard...grasping means just letting the fountain pen rest in my hand and lay there.

Many folks don't get lessons on how to hold a fountain pen, in the teacher don't know any way, and few use a fountain pen in schools any more.

By holding the pen like a pencil or a ball point...is like tiptoeing with figure skates...scratchy & skipping, and by holding it like a fountain pen, the area of the nib being used is larger, it glides on a little puddle of ink....more like using the bottom of the skate and not the toe.

The most important thing is after you place the pen behind the big knuckle is to hold it ever so lightly like it is a featherless baby bird.

Don't make baby bird paste.

Edited August 8, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

August 8, 2013

Medium tip. Different types of paper.
I suspect the tips may be too tightly pressed together because pressing down on the tip starts the ink flowing but then the flow drops off soon after.

If you have to press down on the pen, the tip is not adjusted properly.

A fountain pen requires almost no pressure to write, at least mine don't.

First align the tip.

Then look at the spacing of the tines. Flossing it with .002 sheet of brass should clean up any garbage that has collected in the slit. Making it wider can be tricky. Sometimes just the flossing will do, other times it requires more work to open the slit. It is easier to do this with the nib removed from the pen, and luckily you can remove the nib from your Lamy. This is an example of how on guy does this.

After you floss the tip, check the alignment again. The tips could be pushed out of alignment from the flossing.

And DO NOT GO FAST.

Put the nib back on the pen and TEST IT OFTEN.

It is very easy to go too far, then you have to correct it to narrow the slit, and that is not as easy as widening the slit.

August 9, 2013

@proton
You cannot properly align the tip without a loupe. The tips could be out of alignment by a tiny amount and w/o a loupe you would not be able to see the miss-alignment.
And you want 10x or more magnification.

What size tip are you using and what kind of paper?

F tips are more likely to be scratchy.
The paper has an effect on scratchiness. It is the lack of smoothness of the surface that causes the scratchiness. This is most apparent with XF and F tips, but can also be felt with M tips.

Its an EF nib.

Yes, I've ordered a 10x loupe...should be here in a few days. I'm suspecting the tipping material is also kinda worn out, but that can only be seen through the loupe.

The paper is pretty smooth. I was testing on a notepad.

August 10, 2013

@proton

When I check my tips some were out of alignment a "TINY" amount, and I could feel it when I wrote.

So I think you will see an improvement when you can magnify the tips and align them.

The other thing is the tip profile.

I have seen this problem with my XF, F and even with my M tips. If the side of the tip is vertical and there is a sharp transition from the flat writing surface to the side, that transition edge will create a scratchy feel on your horizontal strokes. When I get more experience and feel brave, I might try to reprofile the tip to round the transition.

Some of my F and XF tips are hell with papers.

They are very fussy about the paper surface. If it is not SMOOTH, they scratch and snag.

Just for a point of reference, you might consider buying a small amount of Clarifontain paper to test your pen. Then you have a reference to compare other papers to. Also smoothness is based on what you can relate to. Until I felt some Clairfontain, I did not know writing paper could be so SMOOTH. Now I have started to become a paper snob. Not by using Clairfontain (too expensive for my budget to use on a regular basis), but by being PICKY about the less expensive papers that I do buy.

I got one XF tip to improve by increasing the ink flow, so there is more ink to lube the tip on the paper. When it was scratchy, it was not dry, but it was not wet either, now it is more wet and it is smooth. I do not like a WET pen, as then I have ink drying issues and I don't want to have to blot each page when I turn it.

I have not gone to micro-mesh and mylar paper polishing yet, that is the next step in my tinkering.

August 10, 2013

@proton
When I check my tips some were out of alignment a "TINY" amount, and I could feel it when I wrote.
So I think you will see an improvement when you can magnify the tips and align them.

The other thing is the tip profile.
I have seen this problem with my XF, F and even with my M tips. If the side of the tip is vertical and there is a sharp transition from the flat writing surface to the side, that transition edge will create a scratchy feel on your horizontal strokes. When I get more experience and feel brave, I might try to reprofile the tip to round the transition.

Some of my F and XF tips are hell with papers.
They are very fussy about the paper surface. If it is not SMOOTH, they scratch and snag.

Just for a point of reference, you might consider buying a small amount of Clarifontain paper to test your pen. Then you have a reference to compare other papers to. Also smoothness is based on what you can relate to. Until I felt some Clairfontain, I did not know writing paper could be so SMOOTH. Now I have started to become a paper snob. Not by using Clairfontain (too expensive for my budget to use on a regular basis), but by being PICKY about the less expensive papers that I do buy.

I got one XF tip to improve by increasing the ink flow, so there is more ink to lube the tip on the paper. When it was scratchy, it was not dry, but it was not wet either, now it is more wet and it is smooth. I do not like a WET pen, as then I have ink drying issues and I don't want to have to blot each page when I turn it.

I have not gone to micro-mesh and mylar paper polishing yet, that is the next step in my tinkering.

Well, I think the tines are misaligned because the nib scratches in only one direction (left to right).

I'll use better quality paper for testing once I get the loupe.

This pen is a wet writer, but not so wet that the ink won't dry. However, the line it lays down is dark and saturated.

August 10, 2013

""""""I'm suspecting the tipping material is also kinda worn out,"""""""

If you wrote 8 hours a day, seven years long, there might be noticeable wear. Over the last 100 years, and defiantly after the war and after the Osmia's bought patent; early '30's, the 'iridium' compounds are so well made the material don't wear out easy.

If it wore as you fear...the last fountain pen would have been made in 1955. And you don't know how poor the Ball Point was then...to @ 1960. I got a couple NOS FP and BP form the mid '50's...and those two BP's had all the problems I remembered as a kid.

Just misaligned or your grip.

If you bought the Lamy pen new, you can get the nib replaced if damaged for free.....before you start grinding. I have a feeling if you grind your nib on micro-mesh they don't need to.

August 10, 2013

""""""I'm suspecting the tipping material is also kinda worn out,"""""""

If you wrote 8 hours a day, seven years long, there might be noticeable wear. Over the last 100 years, and defiantly after the war and after the Osmia's bought patent; early '30's, the 'iridium' compounds are so well made the material don't wear out easy.

If it wore as you fear...the last fountain pen would have been made in 1955. And you don't know how poor the Ball Point was then...to @ 1960. I got a couple NOS FP and BP form the mid '50's...and those two BP's had all the problems I remembered as a kid.

Just misaligned or your grip.
If you bought the Lamy pen new, you can get the nib replaced if damaged for free.....before you start grinding. I have a feeling if you grind your nib on micro-mesh they don't need to.

I would think the same if it was a new pen...this one's a vintage pen and I'm not sure what use/abuse the nib has seen before. As it is the EF nibs have a very small tip, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed and hoping its not a tipping issue. My loupe has shipped, waiting for it to arrive.