Holding A Ballpoint Pen

[Charles Skinner]

I think I have discovered why most people under the age of 30 or 35 hold their ballpoints pens the way they do! Going back in time, when us "old coots" first learned to write, it almost certainly was with a pencil. Therefore, best results could be had by holding the pencil at an angle to the paper. This way the pencil could be rotated almost without thinking to produce the correct line on the paper.

 

I am sure that even up until modern times, children STILL start with a pencil, but very quickly move to a ballpoint. The ballpoint will work just as well straight up as with being held at an angle.

 

So, that is why I think that most young people under the age of 30 or 35, hold their ballpoint straight up, like a flag pole.

 

What do you think?

 

C. S.

[Nanny]

Areed! Yes, children start with pencils. Then ballpoints are ubiquitous and cheap. Problem is that a writing tool held "flag pole" style encourages a too tight grip. There are lots of other pens that are inexpensive and will make their mark resting (as in relaxed) in the web between thumb and index finger.

[Jimmy Joe]

So, that is why I think that most young people under the age of 30 or 35, hold their ballpoint straight up, like a flag pole.

 

What do you think?

Citation needed.

 

I see very few people who hold their writing implement, ball point pen or other, straight up. I teach high school, so it's people under 35 all the time. Also, do you have any evidence that most people wrote with ballpoint pens instead of pencils when their writing habits were being formed? "I'm sure that" is nothing but assertion.

Edited July 12, 2013 by Jimmy Joe

[wallylynn]

I'm confused. Children hold at an angle with pencils but change to straight up with pens?

[elysee]

My students at the university do not hold their pens or pencils "straight up, like a flag pole". However, there are some who hold pens/pencils as if they are afraid that the pen/pencil may escape somehow. Many of these holds seem very uncomfortable, and there are those who seem to modify their grips (good word in many of these cases) throughout the semester.

 

i have never seen any of my students (or any others) use a different hold/grip for a pen than a pencil.

Edited July 18, 2013 by elysee

[Charles Skinner]

With all due respect to the three of you who wrote that you do not see young people holding their ball point pens up in the "flag pole" position, instead of slanted as we have to hold real fountain pens, I can only think of two reasons why you would say such a thing. First, you never really look at the way people hold their ball point pens, or second, you hold your ball point that way and think it is normal, and because of this you see nothing unusual about holding a pen that way. Smile! Open your eyes!

C.

[Jimmy Joe]

Or you could just be wrong. I do not hold my pen "like a flagpole", not even when using a ballpoint. I also pay attention to how my students write. I see lots of bad technique, white-knuckled death grips, and configurations that seem to me more like an exercise in contortionism than holding a writing implement, but no "flagpoles".

You've proposed not only that this "flagpole" grip is common (contrary to others' experiences and observations) but also a reason for it being so. Do some people out there hold their pens this ways? Undoubtedly, just because of the vast number of people who write and the variation of that population. Just because you have a pet theory doesn't mean that there's evidence to support it. Look up "confirmation bias".

BTW, that's the second time you've used "Open your eyes!" In my experience, that's a dismissive and hostile phrase associated with crackpots. Make of that what you will.

[Guimauvaise]

I'll be 28 next month, and I teach college freshmen, so I'm surrounded by people under 35. In my experience -- both personal and as a teacher -- I have seen very few people hold their pens like "flag poles." I would imagine that the "normal" angle would be dictated by the size of a person's hand. For me, a ballpoint pen, when resting naturally just under the knuckle of my index finger, is usually at about a 45 degree angle. I don't know how the angle might change depending on hand size, but, regardless, being a member of the demographic you're targeting, I don't see enough instances of a "flag pole" grip to merit saying that "most" people under 35 hold their pen in that fashion.

[deathbringer1128]

I'm only 13 and I don't see anyone in my school holding their pens/pencils in a manner resembling flag poles at all. Granted, there are a few people who hold it at a steep angle, but the maximum I've seen is about 55 degrees, with most people holding them at about 45 or 50. Thinking about it now, the only time I've seen a person hold a pen like a flag pole is when they hold it with their fist, or if they have an extreme death grip on the pen, both ever only being seen by me once. I for one, use fountain pens, ballpoints, and pencils, and I only ever hold my writing utensils at a 45 degree angle. Perhaps it is common where you live, but please don't apply such observations to others who you have never even met.

[elysee]

With all due respect, my eyes are always open except when I go to sleep at the end of my day. I alway SEE my students and I can always see how they hold their pens/pencils. In addition, I do not hold my pencils, ballpoint pens, or rollerball pens any differently than I hold my fountain pens.

 

I agree with Jimmy Joe that your use of "open your eyes" is dismissive and hostile. There is no call for that as we are all supposed to be friends here. While it is fine for you to disagree, you should be open to and welcome the views and opinions of others as this is how we all learn and grow as individuals as well as share information.

 

I agee with Guimauvaise's statements regarding hand size being a factor and that one's observations cannot be generalized to the majority. In fact, based on responses here, the "flag pole" hold is not the pen-hold of the majority for any age group -- of course, that too is an observation and still not the majority. ; )

 

Having discussed pen/pencil hold with my students and others in the past, I can say that comfort is a factor as well as hand size and writing instrument diameter. I have met folks who hold writing instruments differently (but still no "flag pole" holds) based on the diameter and, for some, the length of the writing instrument.

Edited July 18, 2013 by elysee

[GabrielleDuVent]

Here is a collection of photographs of 12 year old pupils' grips in Japan:

 

http://www.geocities.jp/totoroguide/heaventry/1309.html

 

 

I suppose quite a few of them don't hold them at angles. It's only half a class, so the record is not complete.

[WaskiSquirrel]

I've been teaching for 14 years and I haven't seen the flagpole grip. I also do believe that my eyes are open. Part of my job is actually supervising my students. The biggest fault I've seen with their grips is the "death grip". The flagpole is just not an easy way to handle a writing utensil of any kind.

[watch_art]

I see the flagpoles grip, but usually combined with one of those weird death grips. I teach art. I cant say what grip is most common in my classes though Bc I don't pay super close attention to every grip.

[dorothynotgale]

I am 27. I am in grad school, and as part of my tuition remission, I help teach undergrads (i.e., people even further under that magical "30-35" window you posit). Most have an okay angle, though they do tend to press rather harder than necessary when offered a FP to try. Two have switched since trying mine, because they actually (shock!) found it a pleasant experience that worked with their ordinary grip. My 30-year-old fiance also found FPs blissful to adopt when he tried them for the first time in his life - last year. He uses nothing but his Lamys, now.

 

It may be regional, but my public US elementary school focused very heavily on correct grip in the early years - "choking" the pencil was met with severe scolding, as we were told it could form bad pen habits. I learned well how to hold a writing tool. In addition, we were not EVER permitted to use BPs, or any pens whatsoever, until middle school (age 12), so your "early adopter" theory seems a bit iffy there. My fiance's sister, on the other hand, is exactly my age but went to schools one county over; she clutches her pen in a bizarre claw grip between all the wrong fingers. Weird and probably not good for FPs, but nothing resembling vertical (flagpole).

[Mike 59]

Hi, I have an idea about why ballpoints are held at a very steep angle, which is that the actual ball bearing in the refill stops making contact with the paper at anything lower than about 30 degrees away from vertical.

The fixed outer part of the refill catches on the paper and the ball bearing loses pressure on it, so the user learns this over time, and keeps the pen more upright than a fountain pen needs to be.

That's my theory !

[watch_art]

That's why I myself hold them at a steep angle too. Otherwise it's just scratchy and awful. At least the cheap ones are. I've never had a really nice ballpoint though. Don't see the point.

[guilhermejf]

I agree with the argument that some ballpoints won't work well at angles under 30 degrees from vertical.

I would just like to add two things:

-Some gel pens (such as Pilot G-2, Bic Velocity Gel, ...) require axial pressure for the ink to flow controlled by a spring under the sphere

-Have you ever tried an Uniball Kuru Toga mechanical pencil? The twisting mechanism requires axial pressure, too.

 

By axial pressure I mean in the direction of the pen body, as opposed to the bending moment we apply on our flex nib pens.

So by the required direction of the force, a more vertical grip may be prefered or more efficient.

[caliken]

Hi, I have an idea about why ballpoints are held at a very steep angle, which is that the actual ball bearing in the refill stops making contact with the paper at anything lower than about 30 degrees away from vertical.

The fixed outer part of the refill catches on the paper and the ball bearing loses pressure on it, so the user learns this over time, and keeps the pen more upright than a fountain pen needs to be.

That's my theory !

Correct.

 

In order to function properly, ball point pens have to be held at a higher angle than fountain pens for exactly the reason so ably expressed by Mike 59.

 

This is largely instinctive as ballpoints just don't work properly at a lower angle.

 

Ken

[caliken]

I'm confused. Children hold at an angle with pencils but change to straight up with pens?

Pencils can be used at a normal, low angle and function perfectly well, but this is not the case with ballpoints. See the explanation (above) by Mike 59.

 

 

Ken

[Charles Skinner]

My, my! I have really caused a "hornet's nest" reaction. Upon thinking more about ball point use be younger people, I now believe that it is not so much the angle at which the pen is seen, but more the WAY it is often held by the user. I have heard it called the "death grip," or the "fist grip" --- perhaps others ---- that I was really reacting to. Smile, and write on.