Failed Design Clip

[18111]

I wasn't happy with readily available clips so I designed and order made own clip with sterling silver. It looked good. However, there was a big problem. Unlike other metal clips, the sterling silver is too soft. it doesn't spring back to it's original position if it's pulled a bit too much. It is a total disappointment. I knew silver is soft but, thought it would work if giving a enough thickness. now I have to redesign it with something else. Please give me an advice if anyone have better idea that will work relatively easy and/or inexpensive. May be I should try with brass like Jopen but I like the feel of sterling silver.

Thanks for looking. yoshi

 

 

[MisterBoll]

Very nice design. I like how it fits together.

[basterma]

The right angle design for the clip is not the best for making it springy. Designing a curved clip will give it more strength as the geometry of the curve shape avoids concentrating the stress at the corner. Kind of an arch effect. I think if you look at pens made from silver you will see more curved clips, the use of a silver alloy, or the use of a different metal. Have you thought of directly contacting a manufacturer and asking? You may get lucky and get a helpful reply.

[beak]

That's a bloody nice looking pen.

Yes the curve was the first thing that came to my mind, and if you think that would contradict the rest of the design, a curve could be included underneath the flat top of the present clip, and so be hardly visible.

 

ETA

Also, what about creating a bi-metal clip, with spring steel hidden on the underside of the present silver?

Edited June 21, 2013 by beak

[richardandtracy]

My other thought was, what is the condition of the silver?

 

If you got soft silver, than that's to be expected. If, on the other hand you got half or full hard silver, that would do the trick - but soldering will be a devil because unless you are careful, the soldering will anneal the silver. You will need a tiny flame and various heat absorbing gels to prevent the silver annealing. Try to use as low a melting temp solder as possible too.

 

This clip is failed, so if you try to re-work it, and it doesn't work, you are no worse off - so it is worth tyring to re-work. You may be able to do enough work hardening with a hammer on the back face of the clip to make a useful difference. Hammer it to about 75% of the current thickness & file back to shape. I suspect you'll notice a difference.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[darrin1200]

I would like tobegin making my own parts from silver as well. A friend of mine that works in silver was explaining silver hardness to me the other day. She uses a tumbler filled with a type of steel shot to polish her silver. It also acts as a work hardener. If you will be doing this often, you might want to look into one of these.

[ethernautrix]

I don't know about clips and such, but that is a very cool-looking pen.

[Joseph B]

I believe that if you reduce the thickness of the clip by say 50% you will have more favorable results. The thicker material (although stronger) requires much more force to deflect the amount necessary to open. This increased force likely overstresses your washer attachment. You might want to make another with reduced thickness as see how they compare. It is a beatiful pen. Well done!

[18111]

Very nice design. I like how it fits together.

Thanks!

 

The right angle design for the clip is not the best for making it springy. Designing a curved clip will give it more strength as the geometry of the curve shape avoids concentrating the stress at the corner. Kind of an arch effect. I think if you look at pens made from silver you will see more curved clips, the use of a silver alloy, or the use of a different metal. Have you thought of directly contacting a manufacturer and asking? You may get lucky and get a helpful reply.

I know most clips are curvy. However, I designed this pen simple straight line oriented so tried not to use curve but I may have to re-think again. Thanks for the tip.

 

That's a bloody nice looking pen.

Yes the curve was the first thing that came to my mind, and if you think that would contradict the rest of the design, a curve could be included underneath the flat top of the present clip, and so be hardly visible.

 

ETA

Also, what about creating a bi-metal clip, with spring steel hidden on the underside of the present silver?

The curve underneath might be a good idea, I might try this. The bi-metal is a bit too complicated for me. Thanks for the tip!

My other thought was, what is the condition of the silver?

 

If you got soft silver, than that's to be expected. If, on the other hand you got half or full hard silver, that would do the trick - but soldering will be a devil because unless you are careful, the soldering will anneal the silver. You will need a tiny flame and various heat absorbing gels to prevent the silver annealing. Try to use as low a melting temp solder as possible too.

 

This clip is failed, so if you try to re-work it, and it doesn't work, you are no worse off - so it is worth tyring to re-work. You may be able to do enough work hardening with a hammer on the back face of the clip to make a useful difference. Hammer it to about 75% of the current thickness & file back to shape. I suspect you'll notice a difference.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

Is it same thing if I ground it down to the size rather than hammering and file? Is there any benefit of hammering? Thanks.

 

I would like tobegin making my own parts from silver as well. A friend of mine that works in silver was explaining silver hardness to me the other day. She uses a tumbler filled with a type of steel shot to polish her silver. It also acts as a work hardener. If you will be doing this often, you might want to look into one of these.

 

That is a beautiful pen. I really like the simple block design of the clip.

i think that is for polishing not for hardening or is it? Thanks for compliment.

 

I don't know about clips and such, but that is a very cool-looking pen.

Thanks for kind words!

 

I believe that if you reduce the thickness of the clip by say 50% you will have more favorable results. The thicker material (although stronger) requires much more force to deflect the amount necessary to open. This increased force likely overstresses your washer attachment. You might want to make another with reduced thickness as see how they compare. It is a beatiful pen. Well done!

I originally ordered 1 mm thick but silversmith said it's too thin for the clip so I changed it to 2 mm. May be 1.5 mm might work. I will combine all of the above and re try. Thanks.

[richardandtracy]

Yes, there is benefit to the hammering. It's work hardening. As you deform the metal, the crystal structure in the metal is stressed and deformed into stronger shapes. The net result is that you increase the yield stress of the clip - meaning it will spring further before it bends permanently.

 

With grinding you do not deform the crystals, so the strength doesn't increase.

 

Regards,

 

Richard

[Jopen]

Interesting thread...

When I do sharp curves in brass, I finish them with a hammer... I don't know if that helps, but I carry the pens in my pocket with no problems...

[richardandtracy]

In clock making, frequently click springs are made straight from 1/4 hard brass, and hammered/bent into a suitable curve by which time they are 3/4 or full hard and nicely springy.

It does work for many metals including some steels. However, with steel there is a more significant effect available by heating/quenching/tempering that's not there with most other metals.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[18111]

In clock making, frequently click springs are made straight from 1/4 hard brass, and hammered/bent into a suitable curve by which time they are 3/4 or full hard and nicely springy.

It does work for many metals including some steels. However, with steel there is a more significant effect available by heating/quenching/tempering that's not there with most other metals.

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

 

That fascinating! I know metalsmith do pounding their hot metal but I thought they were just stretching and shaping.

[richardandtracy]

When a smith is working, his brain should be as active as his muscles. Otherwise it would be a workout!

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

[Nihontochicken]

Just to add to Richard's informed observance, sterling silver is not an inherently useful metal for a "springy" application. As annealed sheet, it is way too soft, and as cast it is usually too brittle. Most often available as relatively soft sheet, it can be given a "springy" nature by work hardening (banging it with a hammer into shape). But this is tricky, how much to hammer, how much is too much, when to anneal prior to more hammering, when to stop, etc. This is one reason why silversmithing was considered a top end trade a few hundred years ago. I'm tempted to say, keep hammering until it cracks, then hammer less the next time, or attempt a partial anneal beforehand. Better yet, use a stainless spring steel for the clip, much easier, unless you are into a self-educational trek as to home brew spring sterling silver. Perhaps you might employ a clairvoyant to contact Paul Revere for a few useful tips? Best of fortune in any event!

[18111]

When a smith is working, his brain should be as active as his muscles. Otherwise it would be a workout!

 

Regards,

 

Richard.

I saw the Japanese sward making video. It is indeed complicated process but also a workout!

They pound, stretch, fold, add some stuff in it, heated up, pound again....endless process.

Just to add to Richard's informed observance, sterling silver is not an inherently useful metal for a "springy" application. As annealed sheet, it is way too soft, and as cast it is usually too brittle. Most often available as relatively soft sheet, it can be given a "springy" nature by work hardening (banging it with a hammer into shape). But this is tricky, how much to hammer, how much is too much, when to anneal prior to more hammering, when to stop, etc. This is one reason why silversmithing was considered a top end trade a few hundred years ago. I'm tempted to say, keep hammering until it cracks, then hammer less the next time, or attempt a partial anneal beforehand. Better yet, use a stainless spring steel for the clip, much easier, unless you are into a self-educational trek as to home brew spring sterling silver. Perhaps you might employ a clairvoyant to contact Paul Revere for a few useful tips? Best of fortune in any event!

I've tried hammer it down to about 1/2 the thickness with curved shape underneath. It has much better spring than before but it is not good as readymade ones, it still bent easily. It's also too much work for what it is. I'd better look for something else. But, I've learn something here. Thank you all.