Cute Pens For Us Girls!

[TSherbs]

  On 7/1/2013 at 12:52 PM, dorothynotgale said:

I think a lot of that is the way "masculine" behaviors, interests, and styles are valued in society, versus "feminine" ones being looked down on. So a girl who likes pink and reads romance novels is "normal", and a girl who wears jeans and enjoys action movies is fun and cool (as long as she doesn't take it "too far"). Meanwhile, a boy who wears jeans and enjoys action movies is "normal", while a boy who likes pink and reads romance novels had better keep it under wraps.

 

It has its roots in sexism, and ultimately is unfair to everyone.

There has been a long history of public work on expanding roles an interests (and opportunities and pay) for women; where has been the same effort for expansion of roles and interests for men (they already have the opportunities and pay)?

[ethernautrix]

  On 6/30/2013 at 9:05 PM, Daisy25 said:

I don't think there's a need for stereotypical pens, just pens that show a range of style.

 

I'm a female, but I take my pink in small doses. I'm not big on frills. (Is it relevant that my idea of going all out on makeup is applying a little mascara and perhaps a touch of eyeshadow? And the number of times I go that far in a year I could count on one hand . . . )

 

I think the question of how gender impacts taste is fascinating. For the most part, I think of it as social conditioning and definitions, particularly of masculinity, but I could be wrong on that. I may not be "girly" as such, but I have a broader range of style that I like or feel comfortable in than my husband does. I can do floral fabric on occasion. It isn't unheard of to throw together a little linen and lace. When I look at the various types of sewing I do (mostly quilting and lots of little projects like book bags, book marks, pen wraps, etc), I can go anywhere from minimalist to contemporary to floral traditional. I can indulge a bit of cute overload now and then. If my husband and I are both in a fabric store, I'm going to find more fabrics to like than he does.

 

That said, for me the most gorgeous pen I ever held in my hand was a Lamy 2000. I love the style on that pen: clean lines with subtle textures and beautifully functional design. Would some people call that pen manly? I'd just call it the perfect meld of modernist aesthetic with functional design.

 

Hear, hear! I agree with everything except, what is fabric?

 

I kid! But I probably will not be going inside a fabric store any time soon. Could happen. Probably not.

 

Also, while I like the look of the Lamy 2000, my favorite pen is the Nakaya Piccolo Cigar -- clean lines, gorgeous color with subtle variation, a material both aesthetically and tactilly (tactilefully?) pleasing, and a simply elegant and functional design, as long as you don't want a clip. (A clip version, "Writer," is available.)

[Plume145]

  On 6/30/2013 at 9:05 PM, Daisy25 said:

Sorry everyone, posted in the middle of typing a response! Hadn't even known there was a keyboard combination that results in posting the reply So I edited the reply to remove everything and am starting over

 

 

Edited July 1, 2013 by Plume145

[GabrielleDuVent]

Did not expect discussion to be so dynamic. I've been staying away from this topic in fear of being stoned by people going "rawr, stop being so feminine/girly/[insert adjective relating to females here]". Glad some people see the need for more diversity.

[Plume145]

  On 6/30/2013 at 10:03 PM, TSherbs said:

I teach, and I have found that girls have a broader range of acceptable reading topics than boys. And it is not that girls read more (boys read as much, often just very different fare). Girls will flex more with a variety of reading topics; my male students have had a narrower range of interest and keep "in the closet" their occasional interest in "chick" stories. [this is not a vetted research conclusion, just my observations over 29 years of teaching].

 

FWIW (because I don't have your experience getting to know as many people as well as a teacher does, at least if they're dedicated!) this is also my own experience as someone who has spent a good bit of time not being very traditional about these things.

  On 7/1/2013 at 3:52 PM, TSherbs said:

There has been a long history of public work on expanding roles an interests (and opportunities and pay) for women; where has been the same effort for expansion of roles and interests for men (they already have the opportunities and pay)?

 

absolutely. In fact I think that is part of why the women's lib movement seems - at least to me - to have been basically spinning its wheels for the past, IDK, 20 years, maybe longer: besides a few outliers and mavericks, no one in the wider, organized women's movement seems willing to do any work at this expansion of the roles.

 

Take the old debate about the traditional division of responsibilities in a family with children. The model was men worked outside the home, women inside, keeping house and raising children (okay, for the poorest people it didn't work and both parents, maybe even the oldest kids, had to work or ends didn't meet, but that was the model). The women's movement changed that to women not only working outside the home, but working at a career, not just a random job - in fact, by my generation it's pretty much a requirement to *nearly* the same extent as it is for men (especially in more middle-class social contexts).

 

But what about the flipside change? Well, there's been a few efforts, but mostly they've always seemed pretty half-hearted to me. Heck, some in the women's movement actively resist this sharing of power in the home with men and fathers, and mistrust individual men who want to spend time with their families, sometimes even going so far as to ridicule those men as 'losers' who can't hold down a 'proper job'!

 

So what do you get? One of the biggest hot topics in third-wave feminism, which is the idea that while women now have a job/career like men do, they still have to bear a disproportionate amount of the responsibilities of home keeping and child rearing.

 

  On 6/30/2013 at 9:05 PM, Daisy25 said:

I don't think there's a need for stereotypical pens, just pens that show a range of style.

 

I'm a female, but I take my pink in small doses. I'm not big on frills. (Is it relevant that my idea of going all out on makeup is applying a little mascara and perhaps a touch of eyeshadow? And the number of times I go that far in a year I could count on one hand . . . )

 

I think the question of how gender impacts taste is fascinating. For the most part, I think of it as social conditioning and definitions, particularly of masculinity, but I could be wrong on that. I may not be "girly" as such, but I have a broader range of style that I like or feel comfortable in than my husband does. I can do floral fabric on occasion. It isn't unheard of to throw together a little linen and lace. When I look at the various types of sewing I do (mostly quilting and lots of little projects like book bags, book marks, pen wraps, etc), I can go anywhere from minimalist to contemporary to floral traditional. I can indulge a bit of cute overload now and then. If my husband and I are both in a fabric store, I'm going to find more fabrics to like than he does.

 

That said, for me the most gorgeous pen I ever held in my hand was a Lamy 2000. I love the style on that pen: clean lines with subtle textures and beautifully functional design. Would some people call that pen manly? I'd just call it the perfect meld of modernist aesthetic with functional design.

 

I think I'm saying that I may have a broader range of style available to me because I'm a woman. Or at least, by some societal standards I do. I think that is changing (yeah!), but for some men, it may still be an issue of whether something appears feminine. Now, would they possibly like something if they left social ideas on masculinity out of it? I don't know. For that, we need a poll of the men.

 

Hey, enquiring minds want to know.

I think it's also that the stakes are much higher. The perception of effeminacy can be a lot more damaging to a man than the perception of tomboyishness or mannishness is to a woman, on every level, not just social but even professional sometimes. It's pretty tricky. Men basically have a much narrower range to choose from in terms of behaviors and mannerisms/admitted tastes and interests than women, and falling foul of those rules is way more damaging if you're a man than if you're a woman. And much harder to correct as well, for that matter.

 

That said, I do agree that I wish there was a wider range of styles in pens! That's kind of what I was trying to say earlier, and ended up getting too lost in historical anthropological analyses But yeah, that would be nice! The really expensive pens do have a bit more variety, and so do the super-cheap pens for school kids (think below $10). But the stuff in between is all a pretty specific style!

[Cyber6]

  On 7/1/2013 at 11:06 PM, Plume145 said:

I think it's also that the stakes are much higher. The perception of effeminacy can be a lot more damaging to a man than the perception of tomboyishness or mannishness is to a woman, on every level, not just social but even professional sometimes. It's pretty tricky. Men basically have a much narrower range to choose from in terms of behaviors and mannerisms/admitted tastes and interests than women, and falling foul of those rules is way more damaging if you're a man than if you're a woman. And much harder to correct as well, for that matter.

 

Interesting enough...at least in my professional circle... the word "metrosexual" is thrown around left and right.

 

At least in my circle.. my tomboyishness is more a curiosity than most metrosexual behavior.

[TSherbs]

  On 7/1/2013 at 11:06 PM, Plume145 said:

 

FWIW (because I don't have your experience getting to know as many people as well as a teacher does, at least if they're dedicated!) this is also my own experience as someone who has spent a good bit of time not being very traditional about these things.

 

absolutely. In fact I think that is part of why the women's lib movement seems - at least to me - to have been basically spinning its wheels for the past, IDK, 20 years, maybe longer: besides a few outliers and mavericks, no one in the wider, organized women's movement seems willing to do any work at this expansion of the roles.

 

Take the old debate about the traditional division of responsibilities in a family with children. The model was men worked outside the home, women inside, keeping house and raising children (okay, for the poorest people it didn't work and both parents, maybe even the oldest kids, had to work or ends didn't meet, but that was the model). The women's movement changed that to women not only working outside the home, but working at a career, not just a random job - in fact, by my generation it's pretty much a requirement to *nearly* the same extent as it is for men (especially in more middle-class social contexts).

 

But what about the flipside change? Well, there's been a few efforts, but mostly they've always seemed pretty half-hearted to me. Heck, some in the women's movement actively resist this sharing of power in the home with men and fathers, and mistrust individual men who want to spend time with their families, sometimes even going so far as to ridicule those men as 'losers' who can't hold down a 'proper job'!

 

So what do you get? One of the biggest hot topics in third-wave feminism, which is the idea that while women now have a job/career like men do, they still have to bear a disproportionate amount of the responsibilities of home keeping and child rearing.

 

I think it's also that the stakes are much higher. The perception of effeminacy can be a lot more damaging to a man than the perception of tomboyishness or mannishness is to a woman, on every level, not just social but even professional sometimes. It's pretty tricky. Men basically have a much narrower range to choose from in terms of behaviors and mannerisms/admitted tastes and interests than women, and falling foul of those rules is way more damaging if you're a man than if you're a woman. And much harder to correct as well, for that matter.

 

That said, I do agree that I wish there was a wider range of styles in pens! That's kind of what I was trying to say earlier, and ended up getting too lost in historical anthropological analyses But yeah, that would be nice! The really expensive pens do have a bit more variety, and so do the super-cheap pens for school kids (think below $10). But the stuff in between is all a pretty specific style!

Thank you for this thoughtful commentary. Liberate mannish pen styles! (liberate the men, really).

[XiaoMG]

  On 7/1/2013 at 11:06 PM, Plume145 said:

 

I think it's also that the stakes are much higher. The perception of effeminacy can be a lot more damaging to a man than the perception of tomboyishness or mannishness is to a woman, on every level, not just social but even professional sometimes. It's pretty tricky. Men basically have a much narrower range to choose from in terms of behaviors and mannerisms/admitted tastes and interests than women, and falling foul of those rules is way more damaging if you're a man than if you're a woman. And much harder to correct as well, for that matter.

 

I recall that young boys' play habits are strongly reinforced and confined in peer groups and display less diversity than the habits of girls by age six (at age three, strongly gender-stereotyped behavior is observed even without outside encouragement).

[FountainPenCowgirl]

"The Pilot Prera comes in "vivid pink, soft blu, white, ivory, and yellow" - solid colors that may only be available from Japanese dealers. They are supposed to be smaller pens, though I've never seen one live."

 

I have too many Preras, and I can attest to them being friendly to *very* small hands. I also like the Pilot Cavalier, but fatigue can be more of an issue for me. It's very narrow, which I find tiring when in full power-writer mode. The biggest reason for the early Prera love: I can write forever with it (and I do).

 

Same with my Safaris and Al-Stars, actually - which surprised me.

Edited July 2, 2013 by FountainPenCowgirl

[queenofpens]

_{This has been a frustration to me for many years - it seems that there is a prejudice that only men use fountain pens, you sometimes see it mentioned even in ad copy, I guess they think women are too fastidious to use anything that messy after ballpoints were invented.}

 

_{I do have a few nice vintage ladies' purse pens - Lady Shaeffer and Shaeffer Fashion from the 60's, Waterman Audace from the 90's, and one Cross Sentiment of recent production. Online still makes some nice ladies' pens - but they are all cartridge-only types (although I have been able to get mini-converters that will fit them).}

 

_{From the practical standpoint of the ideal pen mentioned by Gabrielle, thinner, a little longer relative to the circumferance than most cigar pens for better balance in my hand (I hate both the look and feel of cigar pens), and agreed, prettier and brighter colors - pink is not necessary ( I Iike a lot of colors, although I have some pink ones), a sense of style shown in its overall look. I don't really need a clip most of the time, but I don't mind them and they are sometimes useful for clipping onto notebooks. And it has to take a converter, although I would be ok with it having its own type of converter to fit its smaller size.}

 

_{The Platinum Modern Maki-e works well for me as a ladies' pen, even though it was not designed as such. And I just got the "regular" edition of the Visconti Dali and was delighted to discover that it is smaller and thinner than the much more expensive "special edition" or most other Viscontis and in fact, a much better fit for my hand than the other two Viscontis I own.}

Edited July 2, 2013 by queenofpens

[queenofpens]

As an afterthought, it just occurred to me that the very expensive "limited edition" pens from most manufacturers are much more likely to be bigger and apparently styled for masculine hands.

 

Is it because they think all women are in "women's jobs" and can't afford a high-end pen? (in addition, to their general prejudice that women don't like messy pens).

 

Got news for you, pen manufacturers, a lot of us girls now make enough money to buy high-end pens for ourselves

[Eclectica]

  On 6/20/2013 at 2:41 PM, jetsam said:

What about giving a pen as a gift to a girl/woman. Do you choose a "feminine" one?

Have you (women) also ever received pens as gifts which were noticeably gender oriented, or have you (men) been uncomfortable with the gift pens you have received?

 

Interesting question... I just bought the Mrs a Faber Castell Loom in Purple for her Birthday in a months time - because she adores purple (hope it is the right shade ). Also I've made 12 ink mixes specifically for a medium dark purple and she will get to choose which one she wants to ink up with - because I'm bound to get it wrong.

[Plume145]

  On 7/2/2013 at 12:24 AM, TSherbs said:

Thank you for this thoughtful commentary. Liberate mannish pen styles! (liberate the men, really).

 

thanks, glad you liked it And yeah, more liberating's good

  On 7/2/2013 at 1:01 AM, XiaoMG said:

I recall that young boys' play habits are strongly reinforced and confined in peer groups and display less diversity than the habits of girls by age six (at age three, strongly gender-stereotyped behavior is observed even without outside encouragement).

The sticky thing is that you can make a pretty good argument that gender-stereotyped behavior is ALREADY reinforced at age three - for instance, by things like the typical affectionate nicknames given to children, such as little girls often being called 'princess' or 'sweetie' and little boys 'big guy' or 'little man'. that kind of stuff (just summarizing/simplifying). There's a lot of discussion around that.

 

But the first part, yeah, I know what you mean. That's what I remember, and that's what I see around me too (in the considerable time I spend people-watching lol).

[Dillo]

Hi,

 

Back to topic, I think it would kind of depend on the kind of person you are.

 

Excuse me as I go digging for pictures of my collection.

 

Here are my short Japanese pens. The Myu is fairly neutral I think. I used to have way more. I gave two of the ones I used to have to my mom. Three are Pilot, and one is Sailor, and they all have converters.

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8211/8323525453_5c93a967dc_b.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3691/9234027413_fe00704b6b_b.jpg

 

Here is my Ici et Là which I don't use so much anymore since my grip section has been replaced three times, but still has cracks in it. I might have someone turn a new grip section for it. It the perfect size for me, and mine uses a converter. I also used to have a Waterman Audace Enchanted Garden with a fine nib.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8432/7622988338_49031c9480_b.jpg

 

I like the Aurora Optima mini more than the Pelikan M300. I used to have the Pelikan, but I think the Aurora is better made. The big Optima now has Pelikan Violet in it and the Optima Mini has Diamine Claret.

 

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2811/9234032679_15a1109da4_b.jpg

 

 

Here are my other Japanese pens. I have three Pilot Capless Décimo pens, a Platinum Honest 66, a Sailor Professional Gear Slim Mini, and a Pilot Custom 74. See what you can with stickers and blank converter staring at you every day. I got bored, and I took care of it.

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7290/9236803218_48403a9a84_b.jpg

 

A few pencils never killed anyone. From top to bottom, there is a Pilot S3 0.4 mm, Pilot Couleur 0.5 mm, Uni Kuru Toga Slim 0.3 mm, Uni alpha-gel, Faber-Castell 1.4 mm, Pilot Airblanc 0.3 mm, Uni Kuru Toga Slim 0.5 mm, and another Pilot Couleur 0.5 mm

 

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7405/9234028101_4313fd47c9_b.jpg

Anyway, here is my Zebra Prefill x4 0.7 mm with pink, purple, soft blue, and regular leads and my Pilot Fure Fure Corone 0.5 mm. The Fure Fure Corone is my new favorite shaker pencil.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5330/9236887446_50bf42cc73_b.jpg

I also have a lady Sheaffer, but it never really struck me as feminine, so I'm not including it.

Anyway, here is my most favorite Aurora of all time, the Madamin with my two Aurora 98 and my Aurora 88p. The Madamin is a piston filler with Magica Riserva, and it is a very slim pen.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2848/9234350199_53f3e298e7_b.jpg

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3752/9237126470_69795e3a10_b.jpg

Here are the Omas Princesses I used to have. They are piston-fillers

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7334/9237178354_8dc2b31e5e_b.jpg

 

Let's end with this Nakaya. I happen to know the owner, and you have to admit it's cute.

 

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3691/9234165297_45308670d8_b.jpg

My greatest annoyance in the world of fountain pens is how a lot of cute little pens made for women are made to only use cartridges. (I'm especially glaring at you Montblanc. Your Diva line is only meant to use cartridges. Those are really expensive pens to only use cartridges. I'm also looking at you, Conway Stewart! Those Nightingale pens I have been looking at for the past seven years take only cartridges too). Don't they realize that many people like to fill from bottled ink? There are way more colors in bottled ink, and it's so much cheaper than using a gel pen to get the same colors. I think it would be nice if more of them used bottled ink. Also, just coloring the pen pink doesn't change anything, especially if it is the most hideous shade of pink. I'm really sorry to the Hello Kitty Sailor fans, but I thought that the Sailor Professional Gear Slim Mini wasn't made with the best shades of pink. I thought the nib design was cute, but the colors of the body were quite...well, fill in the blank. Also, if you make the pen really tiny, that does not really change anything either, especially if it looks very aggressive. Also, some smaller pens are scaled down, but the manufacturer never considered how it would fit in the hand or balance.

Anyway, that aside, I have small hands, and the size of these pens are the most comfortable to me. I know I will not ever own a Pilot 823, MB 149, MB 146, or Visconti Homo Sapiens Maxi no matter how much a I wish because they are too big for me to use comfortable, but at least I can use something like this. I'm still especially miffed that the Montblanc Diva and Etoile only take cartridges supposedly. Converters can be fitted in many cases, but I'm afraid the grip section will corrode. Why can't they make the grip out of something else and put threads in the grip section to take the regular MB converter?

Dillon

 

And I'm sorry if I insulted anyone's pen by putting it on this list. Who am I to judge? If you are a human male, and you use any of these pens, it won't make you any less of a man. However, if you are too distraught, I have a pack of BIC Crystal for her pens that you can use to dispatch yourself honorably. (What am I going to do with those pens? They were just an awful, painful idea. They are thinner than a pencil already)!

[queenofpens]

  On 7/8/2013 at 3:24 AM, Dillo said:

My greatest annoyance in the world of fountain pens is how a lot of cute little pens made for women are made to only use cartridges. (I'm especially glaring at you Montblanc. Your Diva line is only meant to use cartridges. Those are really expensive pens to only use cartridges. . I'm still especially miffed that the Montblanc Diva and Etoile only take cartridges supposedly. Converters can be fitted in many cases, but I'm afraid the grip section will corrode. Why can't they make the grip out of something else and put threads in the grip section to take the regular MB converter?

Dillon

 

 

Hear, hear. I almost missed getting the Cool Blue Starwalker when it was discontinued - because I had spent 10 years dithering about spending that much money on a cartridge-only pen! To my mind, cartridge only translates as student pen - combine that with a fairly stiff nib and it still means student pen. I resist paying high prices for student pens.

When I finally got it, it worked well with a converter from another manufacturer. But that's beside the point, and as you said, sometimes might be risky - although I think not for the Starwalker.

I am attracted to the Diva, the Princess Grace, and the smaller Tribute to the Montblanc (smaller apparently for women's hands). But all of these are cartridge only, too. And two of them are over $1,000 for a cartridge-only pen!

That's ridiculous. And a lot of the basis of my love-hate relationship with MB. But they don't seem to care that it's a problem for a lot of us.

 

And the Etoile, I saw one in a dealer's catalog that was a lovely ice blue - apparently not a common color for that model. But I wasn't sure it was cartridge-only until I saw your post.

 

Edited July 8, 2013 by queenofpens

[TSherbs]

  On 7/3/2013 at 12:31 AM, Plume145 said:

 

thanks, glad you liked it And yeah, more liberating's good

The sticky thing is that you can make a pretty good argument that gender-stereotyped behavior is ALREADY reinforced at age three - for instance, by things like the typical affectionate nicknames given to children, such as little girls often being called 'princess' or 'sweetie' and little boys 'big guy' or 'little man'. that kind of stuff (just summarizing/simplifying). There's a lot of discussion around that.

 

But the first part, yeah, I know what you mean. That's what I remember, and that's what I see around me too (in the considerable time I spend people-watching lol).

And note toward which gender adults use more cooing, higher-pitched voices, and more smiling. I don' think a lot of adults know how to talk in equal manners and tones toward the genders, especially toward little boys.

[Flake]

  On 7/8/2013 at 8:10 PM, queenofpens said:

 

I am attracted to the Diva, the Princess Grace, and the smaller Tribute to the Montblanc (smaller apparently for women's hands). But all of these are cartridge only, too. And two of them are over $1,000 for a cartridge-only pen!

That's ridiculous. And a lot of the basis of my love-hate relationship with MB. But they don't seem to care that it's a problem for a lot of us.

 

 

 

As an aside, I have a Dietrich. There are converters that fit in them. I found a bootleg MB converter (without the lump) which fits in perfectly. Never say never!

[Dillo]

  On 7/12/2013 at 1:13 AM, Flake said:

 

As an aside, I have a Dietrich. There are converters that fit in them. I found a bootleg MB converter (without the lump) which fits in perfectly. Never say never!

 

I found that there are converters that fit most of them, but I'm a little concerned since I'm not sure how well the metal grip section will hold up to being exposed to ink. I just buy a pack of MB cartridges and fill them with MB ink once they are empty. My pen doesn't seem to be able to take regular international cartridges. I haven't tried it lately, and my pen is inked, but if I recall correctly, regular international cartridges just get caught in the grip section and can't be pushed in any further since MB cartridges have the step further toward the middle of the cartridge. The MB 144 had some problems with the trim ring next to the nib corroding, and many of them I have seen have corrosion there. While Montblanc replaces the ring when it gets corroded, they did tell several people that they made certain pens including the Tribute to the Mont Blanc Classique model cartridge only because they were concerned for the metal grip section. Also, what the Montblanc people in boutiques and in their customer service tell you can be inconsistent, so I'm not sure if that's actually the reason, but I think the Montblanc Tribute to the Mont Blanc Classique is really pretty, and I really want one, but it's so expensive. It's white and platinum, even the nib, unlike the usual Montblanc black and burgundy with a two-toned nib (although they don't really make many burgundy pens anymore it seems). I also like the Montblanc Diamond Classique, and I think it's prettier than the regular 145 Classique, but it takes a converter unlike the Tribute to the Mont Blanc, so I can stop whining about it. They didn't give it a single toned nib though, and I think the single-toned nib on the Tribute to the Mont Blanc looks nicer.

 

Dillon

Edited July 12, 2013 by Dillo

[liapuyat]

When I was first offered a black Sheaffer PFM III for sale, I immediately fell in love with it. It had to do with comfort and the beautiful inlaid nib. Later I took to calling it "Pen For Mona" (my name) and now my friends refer to it as such

[Sasha Royale]

I checked this morning. My wife is a girl. It says so on her driver's license.

She likes a black, LAMY 2000. It settles nicely into her hand. It writes smoothly.

It holds lots of ink. (It didn't cost her anything.) She likes Diamine Emerald ink.

 

Got that, girls ?