Clogging With Private Reserve Or Noodler’S Inks

[JDR]

This is a topic that pops up quote frequently. It gets very heated. I think this is the topic that prompted the RED, UPPERCASE warning at the top of this page. You may contact me via PM for my personal experiences with Noodler's and Private Reserve. But, to answer your question directly: yes, people have had pens damaged/destroyed by using Noodler's and Private Reserve inks. Other people have had no problems. I hope this clears things up.

[The Good Captain]

The warrantee on Rick Propas's Pelikans is voided if used with PR or Noodlers. I have no experience with either one. I've never had a bad experience with Diamine and usually look there first when I've decided that I need a new ink. Good, solid stuff at a (relatively) reasonable price.

This is what the Propas site says:

 

Please note: the use of Private Reserve or Noodlers' inks will void The PENguin warranty. I cannot be responsible for pens in which those inks have been used.

 

To me, this doesn't necessarily mean the actual three-year Pelikan warranty but I could be wrong. Just a word thing.

[mhosea]

Not seen any clogging issues, but maybe I'm a little OCD with my cleaning. I don't think I ever go a month without it. I also gravitated away from most of the bulletproof colors on account of, well, their colors but also quicker nib dry out and harder starting in some of my pens. Lucky for me, BSB is too vibrant for me, so I don't have a dog in that hunt, either. I have some experience with Diamine as well and have a hard time regarding Diamine and conventional non-bulletproof Noodler's as very different animals. Never had more than a sample of PR inks, unfortunately.

 

I just want to point out that, while I seriously doubt that true clogging issues would exist with an aggressive cleaning regimen, poor flow can happen because of thickening due to evaporation, and even Nathan says you don't have to use Noodler's ink full strength. I dilute some of mine as much as 2 parts ink to 1 part distilled water without ill effects and with various good effects. Just dilute in and fill from a separate vial. Also, I can't tell which Noodler's inks you used, but I get the impression that some folks only buy bulletproof colors. If that is you, then you might sort of rephrase your goal in terms of moving away from cellulose reactive inks instead of from all of Noodler's.

Edited June 20, 2013 by mhosea

[rodgerkoopman]

 

I just want to point out that poor flow is not necessarily clogging. Does flow resume after a rest? Or is a flush/cleaning necessary to get things going again? You might want to check out that everything else is in good shape, nib + feed alignment for example. If air can't get back into the ink reservoir, then ink won't come out.

 

You might want to try diluting your Noodler's a little and see if that helps if your bottle is overly saturated.

 

Another possibility is that your bottle is contaminated with STIB (stuff in the bottle).

 

No, ink flow doesn't resume by itself unless I shake the pen like a thermometer to force the ink back into the capillary channels (which is hard to do discreetly in a business meeting). As JDR points out, some people have had no issues. The thing that concerned me most is a specific mention on Richard's website of actual damage to Pilot feeds when using certain (more alkaline) versions of Noodler's. Since I almost exclusively use my Pilot 823 and given my recent problems with clogging I thought it best to discontinue the use of Noodler's inks. But I used several Noodler's varieties up until recently, which means at least 3-4 years. Regardless, I've found most comments interesting and insightful so I'm glad I asked my questions. Thanks all.

[johniem]

I use both inks exclusively and have had no problems with them. A couple of my cheap pens developed what seemed to be flow problems, but a thorough cleaning and re-inking with Noodler's or PR, diluted slightly (about 10%) solved the problem. Today I'm using a $13USD Yafa inked with PR Sherwwod Green and having no problem.

[torstar]

Play with a large number of Noodler's and you are bound to come up with a few that were irksome.

[HDRoot]

Rick's talking about his own reconditioned vintage Pels.

 

This is what the Propas site says:

To me, this doesn't necessarily mean the actual three-year Pelikan warranty but I could be wrong. Just a word thing.

[mhosea]

 

No, ink flow doesn't resume by itself unless I shake the pen like a thermometer to force the ink back into the capillary channels (which is hard to do discreetly in a business meeting). As JDR points out, some people have had no issues. The thing that concerned me most is a specific mention on Richard's website of actual damage to Pilot feeds when using certain (more alkaline) versions of Noodler's. Since I almost exclusively use my Pilot 823 and given my recent problems with clogging I thought it best to discontinue the use of Noodler's inks. But I used several Noodler's varieties up until recently, which means at least 3-4 years. Regardless, I've found most comments interesting and insightful so I'm glad I asked my questions. Thanks all.

 

BSB is the one and only ink that has been implicated in feed damage. Setting aside any controversy over what is actually going on there, stay clear of the Baystate inks and you're clear of that issue...to the extent that you are clear of it with any ink of any brand (other than Pilot since your pen is a Pilot). Clogging is another matter entirely.

 

It's not clear to me whether you are experiencing something related to constricted channels or not. You know, ultrasonic cleaners are pretty cheap these days. Sometimes with my sac pens I hold a pen that I do not wish to immerse while it works on the nib and feed. Point is, if it is a "clogging" issue, it may not be resolved just by changing inks. You may need to clean the feed. Of course if you're comfortable pulling the nib and feed, that is another way to go. I don't know how you feel about Noodler's Blue, but I felt like it was pretty good at sweeping out Bad Blue Heron, which is one of those, like Empire Red, that wouldn't surprise me if it clogged somebody's pen.

 

As for good alternative blue inks, I rank J. Herbin 1670 Bleu Ocean very high in flow and lubricity. Montblanc Royal Blue and Waterman Blue are also favorites, though I only like either of these in fairly wet pens. I'd be loathe to recommend a nano-pigmented ink if you're already worried about clogging problems, but I use Sailor Sei Boku a lot. Sailor inks in general are pretty well saturated and offer good flow. If you like purple blues, Sailor Ultramarine will flow or nothing will.

Edited June 20, 2013 by mhosea

[Lazarus Long]

I don't currently use any Private Reserve inks, but the only one I had trouble clogging was Tanzanite.

 

Noodler's bullet proof inks tend to clog if left idle for several days. Black has been the exception, it seems to always start right up. Because of this, Black is the only bulletproof ink I use much any more. The 'near-bulletproofs' I've used also tend to clog on me. Noodler's regular, non-anything inks are the best behaved. Purple Heart has some issues though.

 

The only Diamine ink that has ever clogged on me is Majestic Blue, and only after being left idle for a long time. It is my current favorite ink company - nice colors and very well behaved, and very reasonably priced. I find I have little reason to choose Noodlers's or Private Reserve over Diamine.

[amberleadavis]

Play with a large number of Noodler's and you are bound to come up with a few that were irksome.

 

 

And if I really like the color --- it's probably quirky.

[torstar]

 

 

And if I really like the color --- it's probably quirky.

 

 

If I see something I know I shouldn't buy, but cannot resist, I will rue it.... (Periwinkle the latest...)

[SeeksAdvice]

At the risk of sounding like I'm "ink bashing," I am now 100% Noodler's free. After having the stuff not flow when I wanted it to, and flowing when I didn't, I gave up.

 

The "bulletproof" line, while appealing due to being an attorney, was nothing but a headache for me. Nib creep and should be more properly called nib ooze. Flow problems, starting problems, skipping problems, etc. Just about the only pen I had that would write okay with them is an M400.

 

Tried Polar Blue, Luxury Blue, OMBB.

 

I did the Blue that Shall Not be Named early in my FP experience. I can say with 100% certainty that there were issues with parts of my Waterman Phileas.

 

Then discovered that Bad Belted Kingfisher is not particularly water resistant. I figured it would be great to label peat pots with, I was wrong. When it got wet, it pretty much spread all over. The pots labeled with Sei-Boku stayed legible.

 

Have not tried PR.

[rodgerkoopman]

At the risk of sounding like I'm "ink bashing," I am now 100% Noodler's free. After having the stuff not flow when I wanted it to, and flowing when I didn't, I gave up.

 

The "bulletproof" line, while appealing due to being an attorney, was nothing but a headache for me. Nib creep and should be more properly called nib ooze. Flow problems, starting problems, skipping problems, etc. Just about the only pen I had that would write okay with them is an M400.

 

Tried Polar Blue, Luxury Blue, OMBB.

 

I did the Blue that Shall Not be Named early in my FP experience. I can say with 100% certainty that there were issues with parts of my Waterman Phileas.

 

Then discovered that Bad Belted Kingfisher is not particularly water resistant. I figured it would be great to label peat pots with, I was wrong. When it got wet, it pretty much spread all over. The pots labeled with Sei-Boku stayed legible.

 

Have not tried PR.

 

Interesting. So, since you're an attorney and permanence seems like an important consideration, have you found a good ink that, like bulletproof, is literally almost bulletproof while also not clogging and flowing well? Thanks.

[rodgerkoopman]

 

BSB is the one and only ink that has been implicated in feed damage. Setting aside any controversy over what is actually going on there, stay clear of the Baystate inks and you're clear of that issue...to the extent that you are clear of it with any ink of any brand (other than Pilot since your pen is a Pilot). Clogging is another matter entirely.

 

It's not clear to me whether you are experiencing something related to constricted channels or not. You know, ultrasonic cleaners are pretty cheap these days. Sometimes with my sac pens I hold a pen that I do not wish to immerse while it works on the nib and feed. Point is, if it is a "clogging" issue, it may not be resolved just by changing inks. You may need to clean the feed. Of course if you're comfortable pulling the nib and feed, that is another way to go. I don't know how you feel about Noodler's Blue, but I felt like it was pretty good at sweeping out Bad Blue Heron, which is one of those, like Empire Red, that wouldn't surprise me if it clogged somebody's pen.

 

As for good alternative blue inks, I rank J. Herbin 1670 Bleu Ocean very high in flow and lubricity. Montblanc Royal Blue and Waterman Blue are also favorites, though I only like either of these in fairly wet pens. I'd be loathe to recommend a nano-pigmented ink if you're already worried about clogging problems, but I use Sailor Sei Boku a lot. Sailor inks in general are pretty well saturated and offer good flow. If you like purple blues, Sailor Ultramarine will flow or nothing will.

 

I just ordered the iSonic 3800 cleaner everybody says good things about and will definitely try it for cleaning. However, I think I've already pretty much exhausted all options where cleaning and maintenance are concerned. The nib and feed on an 823 are held in by friction only so are easily (and carefully) removed. I've flushed with cold water, I've flushed with a 10% ammonia solution as per Richard's write-up, and I've let the feed 'soak' in cold water for 24 hours and then dry everything thoroughly. After all these cleaning steps the Noodler's ink would still stop flowing after writing for a few minutes, and then only vigorous thermometer-like shaking would restore ink flow, but again only temporarily. I'm waiting for Diamine and Waterman ink to arrive, but am currently using an old'ish Mont Blanc black ink and have none of the flow problems I previosuly had. I will also try the J. Herbin; it sounds like it would be a very good ink as well. Up until now I really liked Noodler's inks. There's nothing that offends me about their inks and I would like nothing more than being able to continue to use it. However, it doesn't seem like I'll be able to.

[leroy]

I see this issue come up from time to time here on the forum and i feel compelled to relate my experiences and opinions relating to this matter. I've been fooling with pens for a considerable number of years, and i really enjoy the great variety of inks that folks like Noodlers, Private Reserve, Diamine, Sailor and others provide for us pen lovers. I well remember when the colors ya could get were black, red, blue, and blue-black. We are truly blessed that ink technology has moved forward so far as to give us a veritable rainbow of colors to use. The fountain pen community owes the individuals who have pioneered this technology and have graciously provided them to us a great debt of gratitude.

 

There's no ink i dont use. If i like it, i buy it without regard to anything other than my particular color whim at the time. Right now there are from 10's to 30's (....my guess...) of vintage pens inked here at home. Everything from Esterbrooks to Wahls to Watermans to Scheaffers; plus a few "newer" pens.

 

Im an "ink junkie" at heart and i really like the saturated inks like Noodlers and Private Reserve. In my childlike way, i enjoy the various colors that are available to us ink affectionados; so there are bunches of saturated colors in all possible hues inked at my house depending on my "color whim". Some may sit unused for several months.

 

Every pen i have gets flushed at the ink change with the old time ammonia/water flush. If things are a bit stubborn, i add a drop of dishwashing liquid. I've never had any problems with feeds being eaten up or with nibs corroding. The average "sit time" of some of these inks in these pens could be as high as nine months (...i keep an ink log noting when the pens are inked and with what...).

 

Remember this; the easiest thing that any purveyor of goods and services can say is "not to use" stuff that "might" (...read that "could possibly do damage" in extreme cases of neglect...) damage the product or repair service that they sell or provide. It's simply extra insurance for both you and the pruveyor of goods. I aint making any judgements concerning this approach, im simply saying that it does, in fact, happen.

 

Havin said that; I also opine that it aint a "zero sum" world. There is room enough for all of us to enjoy our hobby and in some cases our vocation or avocation without harming our brother and sister pen affectionados and suppliers of goods and services.

 

That's the way i see things this mornin. You may see 'em differently.

 

leroy

[torstar]

I often think I'd be better off with buying just one ink that I'm happy with and then telling everyone how this ink never bleeds, clogs, leaks, stains... and then extrapolate it to every ink released by that brand.

[cellmatrix]

In addition to Binder and Propas, another pen expert has written several times, not about clogging but about corrosive properties of noodlers inks.

 

http://gregminuskin.com/?p=9101

 

I know if you are a noodlers fan, you might dismiss this as a defective sac or as inaccurate anecdotal evidence. And you might be right. All I know is that I respect Greg as a pen expert and based on his advice I have stayed away from noodlers inks. Mostly I use Waterman montblanc and Iroshizuku inks and I find plenty of variety with them - I don't feel deprived at all. Anyway I just wanted to add my two bits here.

[mhosea]

In addition to Binder and Propas, another pen expert has written several times, not about clogging but about corrosive properties of noodlers inks.

 

http://gregminuskin.com/?p=9101

 

I know if you are a noodlers fan, you might dismiss this as a defective sac or as inaccurate anecdotal evidence. And you might be right. All I know is that I respect Greg as a pen expert and based on his advice I have stayed away from noodlers inks. Mostly I use Waterman montblanc and Iroshizuku inks and I find plenty of variety with them - I don't feel deprived at all. Anyway I just wanted to add my two bits here.

 

One thing about that report that I noticed was that nowhere does it say the vinyl sac was new. What year was that limited edition?

 

I just happen to know that the FP community has countless hours of Noodler's inks in vinyl sacs, and I've personally used them in vinyl sacs quite a bit because these are my cheaper pens. They've been loaded for way more than three weeks, with nothing more than staining of the sac to show for it. I'm also conducting a long-term test of latex exposure in various Noodler's inks. The only thing I can recommend to you from this point of view is to avoid using BSB and then BBH in succession. If I had more BSB I could confirm whether BBH had anything at all to do with it, but I don't use BSB, so it's been hard to justify buying another sample, as conducting scientific experiments on this subject is apparently a thankless job that just gets you labeled as a Noodler's fanboy or otherwise somebody with an ax to grind. It probably gets me resented by some of the less tolerant repair guys as well.

 

You know, when David Nishimura started selling genuine silicone sacs, he didn't just *say* that the previously-claimed silicone sacs weren't; he proved it with a repeatable experiment. I thought that was just superb on his part, and I would like to see that sort of thing vis-a-vis the supposed dangers of given inks. We don't have to understand why it happens. The why of it is for the ink maker to worry about. But for us users, just see that if you do this, then this, then that, wait, and voila--damage! That would be invaluable, IMHO, but it has to be something that you can just do, a recipe, not pointing to somebody else's experience where they can hardly tell you any details and when you try to do what you think they did, nothing happens.

Edited June 21, 2013 by mhosea

[kronos77]

I have had problems with inks but never Noodlers. And just for the record, Noodlers/FPN Starry Night cleans out real well.

 

Really, I think we have to understand two things. First, problems are not limited to one brand and any brand of ink could cause problems. Second, Noodlers makes so many different inks with so many different properties that it is senseless to generalize. I think there are Noodlers inks that are high maintenance and we all know which those are. Others have extreme performance properties.

 

Read the reviews and you should be able to find an ink that suits you. Order samples and you can then be even more certain.

[torstar]

kronos, a few inks have caused enough spark to be tagged with legit concerns

 

parker penman and BSB are inks that have enough complaints to require the need to warn people ahead of time (while at the same time praising their greatness)