Is The Fountain Pen Industry It's Own Worst Enemy?

[Fabienne]

My father was a surgeon. He had the hands of a serial killer. Nothing lovely about them. He did play the violin and he had a lot of fountain pens. I inherited his hands (but am not a surgeon nor do I play the violin). I live in Cincinnati, a city where there is at least one real pen shop, and many places where you can find pen accessories (ink and sealing wax and more).

 

I keep on getting pestered by kids who tell me to go look it up on Youtube if I want to know how to do something. That does work (and cheer up, i return the favor at times). So, one might imagine that if some dear little thing can't figure out how to use a fountain pen you can always tell them,"Google it. Now, get out of my way...I am trying to choose my Netflix for the evening."

[N2theBreach]

 

If someone said, "hey, let's make an official FPN website, where the information is organised and compiled, with paper compatibilities, ink densities, trouble-shooting with nibs, converter information, e.t.c.", I am all for it. Heck, I'll even translate it into Japanese, since I'm bilingual. There are five, six threads from over the years asking which pens are compatible with moleskine, which paper is best, e.t.c. and I always find the same answers, and I think it'd be nice if one could just get that information in an organised manner from one page.

 

But I do wish and hope that an FP user would seek out that information, rather than asking that pen manufacturers would compile that info into a booklet and pack it with each and every pen. I think you learn more that way anyway, and if one can't bother to google a few words to find information in this day and age where even the details of the weirdest chemical reactions can be found with a few keys, then maybe one should stick with ballpoints.

 

A) I think everything you said above is spot on... for those who have access to the internet, know how to use it, and want to use it. I live in central PA. Not far from me there are several people/famiies that I know who may not have the internet, may have it but only use if for email so they can communicate with their kids, whatever. Just like many of us don't live in a major (or even a minor) city with access to pen shops, there are still many people today who are not funtionally computer literate. That will change in a few years, I expect. And that's in the USA. I expect it's even moreso in some developing countries.

 

B ) As I think about it, one thing that I think is clear from this thread is that we are talking about people who are not like us, at this moment. Hard to imagine, with however many thousands of members there are. But I was in that place a year ago. It sounds like Daisy25 was in the place a few years ago, and so on.

 

C) I'm with you on the FPN multifunction, cross-referenced, annotated, sortable, portable website! I don't think I'd bring it up right now though. The admins just had a terrible time with the current site!

[floit63]

I'm a little baffled by the comparisons to things like firearms and instruments. We are talking about a pen. To us, yes, it is obvious that it will need maintenance. However, it should be fairly clear that most people are not like those of us on this board. Most people do not pick up a pen and go "hey, I should find out what I need to do to maintain this thing" or "I wonder if there's anything special I should look up". They think "I need something that writes".

 

Possibly I'm more aware of this at the moment because I'm coverting my partner into a fountain pen user. He, like most people who grew up with ballpoints and rollerballs, is used to being able to toss a pen in his bag, pull it out, write with it, put it back, and forget about it. If he didn't have me to explain details like flushing the pen before using it for the first time or how to make sure there's not water left after a cleaning he likely would have given up. I'd imagine that's a fairly common problem, if only because people aren't used to needing to look up information on how to use a pen. They've been using pens and other writing implements since they were small children, it seems a bit silly if you don't know better.

[GabrielleDuVent]

I'm a little baffled by the comparisons to things like firearms and instruments. We are talking about a pen. To us, yes, it is obvious that it will need maintenance. However, it should be fairly clear that most people are not like those of us on this board. Most people do not pick up a pen and go "hey, I should find out what I need to do to maintain this thing" or "I wonder if there's anything special I should look up". They think "I need something that writes".

 

Possibly I'm more aware of this at the moment because I'm coverting my partner into a fountain pen user. He, like most people who grew up with ballpoints and rollerballs, is used to being able to toss a pen in his bag, pull it out, write with it, put it back, and forget about it. If he didn't have me to explain details like flushing the pen before using it for the first time or how to make sure there's not water left after a cleaning he likely would have given up. I'd imagine that's a fairly common problem, if only because people aren't used to needing to look up information on how to use a pen. They've been using pens and other writing implements since they were small children, it seems a bit silly if you don't know better.

 

That's the thing though; for some people, all they want is a regular standard coffee maker that drips and makes coffee (ballpoint). The FP users are similar to the espresso machine fanatics on coffeegeek (actually, I'm pretty sure some users on here are also on coffeegeek). Espresso machines are luxury items in the coffee world, and it requires a bit more care than your regular P&G coffee maker (decalcify, backflush, clean the filter, e.t.c.). Same with FPs.

 

For what it's worth, none of the espresso machines I've used at home (I've had four, including the one my flatmate and I just bought, which has so many bells and whistles I'm surprised it doesn't come with an encyclopaedia and an android app) have extensive instructions either. They're all very unhelpful, and I've had to go out to hunt for information on how to make the microfoam for my cappuccino, when to use an espresso pod filter (which I didn't know of its existence for a good while). Not one manual told me whether backflush was necessary, or what that even was. What's even worse, there aren't "espresso machine shops" (not brick-and-mortar anyway), so I can't just walk in and ask what to do when my machine is gurgling and spitting out mud.

 

The FP market isn't really all that desperate to increase its population, just as espresso machine market isn't really all that desperate for new customers. They have a steady supply of loyal fans who'll dish out good sums of money for their products, who'll pass their knowledge and passion down to their children. Hence, most of these companies either rely on other products for larger sources of income, or can afford to have "take it or leave it" attitude.

 

The FP is a luxury. Dictionaries define luxury as something that's unnecessary but conducive to pleasure and comfort. The only people who buy the $6000 Stallone pen from Montegrappa are those who like FPs, and it's most likely that they know how to use the pen. Whether any of us like it or not, the majority of companies seem to regard FPs as fancies and have "don't want to use it/don't know how, then don't bother" philosophy.

 

Or, maybe FPs are like espressos and one actually needs a book to master the intricacies of it. I still pull miserable shots sometimes.

[floit63]

 

That's the thing though; for some people, all they want is a regular standard coffee maker that drips and makes coffee (ballpoint). The FP users are similar to the espresso machine fanatics on coffeegeek (actually, I'm pretty sure some users on here are also on coffeegeek). Espresso machines are luxury items in the coffee world, and it requires a bit more care than your regular P&G coffee maker (decalcify, backflush, clean the filter, e.t.c.). Same with FPs.

 

For what it's worth, none of the espresso machines I've used at home (I've had four, including the one my flatmate and I just bought, which has so many bells and whistles I'm surprised it doesn't come with an encyclopaedia and an android app) have extensive instructions either. They're all very unhelpful, and I've had to go out to hunt for information on how to make the microfoam for my cappuccino, when to use an espresso pod filter (which I didn't know of its existence for a good while). Not one manual told me whether backflush was necessary, or what that even was. What's even worse, there aren't "espresso machine shops" (not brick-and-mortar anyway), so I can't just walk in and ask what to do when my machine is gurgling and spitting out mud.

 

The FP market isn't really all that desperate to increase its population, just as espresso machine market isn't really all that desperate for new customers. They have a steady supply of loyal fans who'll dish out good sums of money for their products, who'll pass their knowledge and passion down to their children. Hence, most of these companies either rely on other products for larger sources of income, or can afford to have "take it or leave it" attitude.

 

The FP is a luxury. Dictionaries define luxury as something that's unnecessary but conducive to pleasure and comfort. The only people who buy the $6000 Stallone pen from Montegrappa are those who like FPs, and it's most likely that they know how to use the pen. Whether any of us like it or not, the majority of companies seem to regard FPs as fancies and have "don't want to use it/don't know how, then don't bother" philosophy.

 

Or, maybe FPs are like espressos and one actually needs a book to master the intricacies of it. I still pull miserable shots sometimes.

 

This is where we start getting into personal opinions of what a fountain pen is. Personally, I don't consider them a luxury item. I view them as a nice upgrade on something I'd already be using that is more tailored to my personal needs. I don't tend to like comparisons, but if I had to make one I'd probably go with making my own clothes. I don't need to do that, I can certainly buy clothes in stores, but doing so means that they fit better and are 100% to my tastes. It's complicated and time consuming and most people don't have the interest or energy necessary to do so. People who still sew their own clothes are a rather insular little community, not unlike fountain pen users.

 

However, sewing machines still come with detailed instructions. Even advanced patterns explain things that are obvious to an experienced sewer. Beginner patterns are almost ridiculous with the amount of detail they go into. If you're interested in tailoring (less common than even sewing) there are instructions on how to sit.

 

Now, I don't expect fountain pens to come with a full book and manual like sewing machines or even patterns. Once agin, it's a pen. However, I do think that there's no harm in a small set of basic maintenance instructions with new pens. Some people will still be happy with biros, but there are people in the middle who could be pulled in by just that tiny bit of extra support. Does the fountain pen industry need it? No, probably not. If we're being honest, no industry needs to have more than just enough demand to keep afloat. That doesn't mean it wouldn't be a nice addition.

[Edsal17]

As a new fountain pen user and a lover/owner/user of many of the items (i.e. guns, guitars, safety razors and espresso machines) that fountain pens were compared to in this thread, I'm going to wade into the fray.

 

First off, to reiterate the point, many of us don't live in towns that have or are near places that have fountain pens. Should someone who does not live in say NYC, be denied the joy of using one, because there is no brick and mortar store and where close by? Should they be forced to only use brand x, because no one sells brand y in their area? We all know not trying before you buy is not the best recipe for success. If you buy a sweater online, and it does not fit, that is understandable, but if it arrives and it the sleeve is unraveling, that is a different story right?

 

Second, is it really that expensive to put a little instructional manual in the box? No one is asking for a calligraphy manual with each pen. I'm sure most of us can figure it out, but instruction manuals are provided with products that are much less expensive then most fountain pens we are talking about. Heck, my $15 electric razor came with one, but evidently, it was too much of a hassle for Lamy to include one with a pen that retails for $200.

 

Finally, lets get down to a couple of comparisons. You brought up musical instruments, and while I don't play violin, I do play guitar. I understand that when I purchase one, it won't be set to my exact specifications, but if I purchase a Gibson Les Paul for $1500, I expect that when I plug it in, it will play. As for guns, I like 1911s, which some might are argue are like the fountain pens of the handgun world. They are an old design, they take some maintenance to keep running, but when you drop a $1000 on one, I believe there is a reasonable expectation that you don't have to immediately send it to a gunsmith in order to get working properly. The same reasonable expectation should be made for a fountain pen above certain price. I'm not talking about a Noodler’s Pen, that come free with a bottle of ink, but anything north of say $50 maybe should have someone test right before it gets sent out to customer/retailer, because purchasing a $150 pen directly from the manufacturer and it arrives with bent tines or flow problems to the point that it does not write is pretty pathetic.

 

Oh, as for my espresso machines, it has been hit or miss. My latest purchase, a Rancilo Silva, came with a full instruction manual and a DVD. It did provide instructions on proper milk steaming methodology or latte art, but I did break down basic set up and maintenance of the machine.

 

 

As a new fountain pen user and a lover/owner/user of many of the items (i.e. guns, guitars, safety razors and espresso machines) that fountain pens were compared to in this thread, I'm going to wade into the fray.

 

First off, to reiterate the point, many of us don't live in towns that have or are near places that have fountain pens. Should someone who does not live in say NYC, be denied the joy of using one, because there is no brick and mortar store and where close by? Should they be forced to only use brand x, because no one sells brand y in their area? We all know not trying before you buy is not the best recipe for success. If you buy a sweater online, and it does not fit, that is understandable, but if it arrives and it the sleeve is unraveling, that is a different story right?

 

Second, is it really that expensive to put a little instructional manual in the box? No one is asking for a calligraphy manual with each pen. I'm sure most of us can figure it out, but instruction manuals are provided with products that are much less expensive then most fountain pens we are talking about. Heck, my $15 electric razor came with one, but evidently, it was too much of a hassle for Lamy to include one with a pen that retails for $200.

 

Finally, lets get down to a couple of comparisons. You brought up musical instruments, and while I don't play violin, I do play guitar. I understand that when I purchase one, it won't be set to my exact specifications, but if I purchase a Gibson Les Paul for $1500, I expect that when I plug it in, it will play. As for guns, I like 1911s, which some might are argue are like the fountain pens of the handgun world. They are an old design, they take some maintenance to keep running, but when you drop a $1000 on one, I believe there is a reasonable expectation that you don't have to immediately send it to a gunsmith in order to get working properly. The same reasonable expectation should be made for a fountain pen above certain price. I'm not talking about a Noodler’s Pen, that come free with a bottle of ink, but anything north of say $50 maybe should have someone test right before it gets sent out to customer/retailer, because purchasing a $150 pen directly from the manufacturer and it arrives with bent tines or flow problems to the point that it does not write is pretty pathetic.

 

Oh, as for my espresso machines, it has been hit or miss. My latest purchase, a Rancilo Silva, came with a full instruction manual and a DVD. It did not provide instructions on proper milk steaming methodology or latte art, but it did break down the basic set up and maintenance of the machine.

[Daisy25]

 

if one can't bother to google a few words to find information in this day and age where even the details of the weirdest chemical reactions can be found with a few keys, then maybe one should stick with ballpoints.

 

But this strikes me as the perspective of a fountain pen user not a pen manufacturer. As a user, I can dismiss those who aren't willing to do the same research I am. But if I were in the business of selling pens, I wouldn't be questioning whether prospective buyers have the right attitude: I'd be looking at what I could do to get more buyers. If a lack of information is getting in the way of my selling more pens, I'd look at how I can address that issue. I'd ask myself, what can I to do entice?

 

That said, I think the point being made here that a lot of the pen manufacturers aren't looking to expand their customer base may be true. But then I look at a company like TWSBI, which has a pretty high profile on Facebook, is showing off designs in process and think that there is a company that is decidedly trying to woo customers.

[proton007]

Why can't fountain pens be like iPhones?

Edited June 8, 2013 by proton007

[minislot]

you are so right. I had someone say to me that the Mont Blanc he bought was a total waste of money because it ran out of ink in a matter of a couple of weeks. Little did he know that he had to refill the ink reservoir each time. He thought it would last as long as his cheap ball point. I had to roll my eyes.

 

A little bit of me died reading that: do you what happended to the (poor) MB?

[pompa]

 

I've never actually seen a major city without at least one pen shop, and I've lived on three continents. I suppose there might be major cities without one pen shop, but I've just never been in one. I currently reside in Chicago - certainly not the epitome of sophistication in writing instruments, and certainly not New York - but I know at least three or four fountain pen dealers, plus Mont Blanc boutiques and Levengers. Are they getting as rare as shoe repairs?

Well, that depends on what you would consider a major city. The largest city here in Sweden is Stockholm with a population of about a million. This is a country the size of California but with a population of only 9.5 million; in Chicago metropolitan area you have about the same population as our entire country!

 

I have found three places that I know sell fountain pens, one of wich sells only Pilot V-pen.

The second is an expensive tobacconist that also sells bling accessories (the price for a Meisterstück 149 is $1000).

The third is actually a real pen shop, but I can't say that I fancy any of the pens they sell (Lamy 2k $200, Pilot VP $285).

None of these stores sell the pens I am interested in. I repeat: I have to buy my pens online, I just don't have any choice.

[ajcoleman]

Let's be honest. Fountain pens are not for everybody, and there is not much the industry can do about it. In a time and place where the baseline price for a usable writing instrument is "free" and the required maintenance for a pen is "throw it away when it quits working," most of what we discuss here seems pretty crazy. Even for folks who use a nicer refillable pen, they expect it to be pretty simple: buy the right refill, unscrew the pen, toss out the old, drop in the new, screw the pen back together, and don't think about it for a long, long time. To most people, things like "clean a pen" or "adjust a pen" sound as crazy as "spend $100 on a pen."

 

So who buys fountain pens? In my mind their are three types of people: those looking for a unique, personal gift, the curious who generally like pens, are atracted to the though or look of a fountain pen and want to try one out, and fountain pen fans like us.

 

Those in the first two categories are going to by a pen at a gift or office store, It will likely come with a box and basic instructions, and probably a cartridge or two. The instructions will need to make clear the one fact they really need to know to get started, and that is that they have to push the cartridge into the pen to puncture the cartridge and start the flow, and not just drop it in like a ball point refill.

 

To sell more to people in these two categories, it seems it all comes down to look, presentation, getting into the stores where people buy pens (including mainline online retailers like amazon) name recognition, like Parker, Cross, and Sheaffer, that even non-pen people associate with quality pens, and price. Instructions, no matter how good they are, don't sell pens. They just have to be good enough to get people writing, so they don't take the pen back to the store because the pen "won't work."

 

And with today's precision manufacturing, including modern line inspection techniques, inking and testing every nib just shouldn't be necessary. That is not to say that these pens could not be fine tuned and folks like Richard Binder who do this provide a valuable service to coniseurrs like us, but with the quality lines that Mr. Binder sells, I suspect he almost never gets a new pen that is seriously flawed to the point it doesn't write.

[GabrielleDuVent]

 

This is where we start getting into personal opinions of what a fountain pen is. Personally, I don't consider them a luxury item. I view them as a nice upgrade on something I'd already be using that is more tailored to my personal needs.

 

I was going by the dictionary definition; we don't need FPs to facilitate our daily lives, not by a long shot. As soon as it becomes an object conducive to pleasure and comfort, it's a luxury item. If it's an upgrade, then it's luxury, as one can make do with the non-upgrade.

 

I can say that I'd die without raspberries in middle of December and French cheese readily available, but in the end, I won't actually die without them. I would, however, get in trouble without long trousers in dead of the winter. The trousers? Necessity. Raspberries? Luxury.

 

As a new fountain pen user and a lover/owner/user of many of the items (i.e. guns, guitars, safety razors and espresso machines) that fountain pens were compared to in this thread, I'm going to wade into the fray.

 

First off, to reiterate the point, many of us don't live in towns that have or are near places that have fountain pens. Should someone who does not live in say NYC, be denied the joy of using one, because there is no brick and mortar store and where close by? Should they be forced to only use brand x, because no one sells brand y in their area? We all know not trying before you buy is not the best recipe for success. If you buy a sweater online, and it does not fit, that is understandable, but if it arrives and it the sleeve is unraveling, that is a different story right?

 

Second, is it really that expensive to put a little instructional manual in the box? No one is asking for a calligraphy manual with each pen. I'm sure most of us can figure it out, but instruction manuals are provided with products that are much less expensive then most fountain pens we are talking about. Heck, my $15 electric razor came with one, but evidently, it was too much of a hassle for Lamy to include one with a pen that retails for $200.

 

 

More people use razors than FPs. My MB came with instructions. My Platinums did not, nor my Lamy. It's also that espresso machines and razors can be hazardous, but FPs, not much so (you have to try pretty hard to stick the nib into your eye).

 

I am not talking about the price of the product. I am discussing the types of people who use the product, and what the manufacturers think of them.

 

As for the B&M shops, that is akin to me complaining that I can't have my selection of beans. Of course I can't, I'm not in the UK. If you are buying products online, then you are also accepting the risks with it, which includes things like "not quite the weight I wanted". A pen that won't write is defective, but a pen that writes but not to your liking... is that really the shipper's fault? If I bought a violin online and it played but not with the tone I liked, then I'd blame myself for buying it online, not the seller.

 

But this strikes me as the perspective of a fountain pen user not a pen manufacturer. As a user, I can dismiss those who aren't willing to do the same research I am. But if I were in the business of selling pens, I wouldn't be questioning whether prospective buyers have the right attitude: I'd be looking at what I could do to get more buyers. If a lack of information is getting in the way of my selling more pens, I'd look at how I can address that issue. I'd ask myself, what can I to do entice?

 

That said, I think the point being made here that a lot of the pen manufacturers aren't looking to expand their customer base may be true. But then I look at a company like TWSBI, which has a pretty high profile on Facebook, is showing off designs in process and think that there is a company that is decidedly trying to woo customers.

 

Again, this is discussing the attitude of the pen manufacturers. They don't actually need a significant amount of FP users to support their companies (the major ones like Platinum and Lamy, anyway), because they have other income sources. I'm not sure about TWSBI because on the market it's still not as major as companies like Pelikan, but for the most part, they understand that FPs are generally luxury - I mean, MB is owned by Richemont, which also owns Cartier (luxury), Baume and Mercier (luxury), Dunhill (manufactures pens too, but luxury), Van Cleef (def. luxury), and Chloe (luxury) - and they can do the take it or leave it attitude (incidentally, both my MBs came with instructions). Conway's up there with companies like Gieves and Hawkes and Turnbull and Asser, and the Turnbull shirt did not come with instructions on how to take care of it.

 

Printing booklets cost money, and they are going to give you that booklet for free. And if they don't really need additional customers, what's the incentive to do things for free? There are tiers to companies, and those who are targeting mass market are generally more compliant with the customers, but for the most part, companies will be nice to those people who'll hang onto them. FP population has significantly shrunken over the past few decades, and it will not suddenly see a boom. They'd rather package instructions with rollerballs, that's more profitable.

[Sailor Kenshin]

you are so right. I had someone say to me that the Mont Blanc he bought was a total waste of money because it ran out of ink in a matter of a couple of weeks. Little did he know that he had to refill the ink reservoir each time. He thought it would last as long as his cheap ball point. I had to roll my eyes.

You shoulda offered to take it off his hands for ten bucks. ;p

 

Xfountain pens includes a little instruction booklet with its products.

 

Oh...and some schools still require the use of a fountain pen. Not many, but still.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Sailor Kenshin

[diamondmaster]

I Agreed with someone in The Forum:

 

1- Write needs on daily basis are gone.........some telephone numbers or names and 3 - 4 signatures maybe the most common needs to write daily......

 

2- Even Notebooks are gone.......my nephew in High school are using right now something like ipad with all educational issues inside.....

 

3- I think all people involved in FP could be because We Grow Up with.....In my case ....I remember my father give me a Parker 75 (Stainless steel Gold Trim) when I had 9 Y.O. and try to use my father´s gold one o_O

 

4- Products Like Noodler Ahab , Lamy and even Pelikan could try to help newcomers to test the experience without spend $ 200 - 600 in a Medium price range and not to see if write with FP will fits their needs.

 

5- As "Sevillanas" blades disappears from the face of the Earth when safety razors and Prestobarba appears......Unfortunately to the World FP and even the Writting art are in their last Days.....

 

6- Even in the Golden era of FP they never were a "Mass" Item. Even they was very Spread.....they were in some ways a touch of Exclusivity IE : Today´s Android Phones....

[Strombomboli]

Maybe I should open two new threads, but maybe it can be discussed here as well, since people are already in the mood.

 

1) What does the internet mean to fountain pen use?

In my opinion, the internet actually helps to promote fountain pen use. I would never have heard of Noodler's ink or of TWSBI pens, had I not started using the internet to get information about fountain pens. This I did because the pen I used for 35 years was broken inside (wrong converter) and since it was no longer produced, I first turned to Ebay to find a used one in which I could put my nib, but I also looked around to find another one with an OBB nib. I found out that really broad nibs are hard to find, if at all. I got interested in the other pens I saw on the web. I started buying them. I found out that a Sailor zoom nib is not enough for me, and so on, here we are! Now I own fifteen pens, because I have already given some away; I also own many ink bottles. I was happy with my one pen and my bottles of Aurora Blue for a long time; now I am even happier with my TWSBIs and a whole range of Noodler's inks.

 

2) Are fountain pens a luxury?

No. Thea are writing instruments, and they don't cost much, if you just need a pen. You can have a car to drive with and you can have one to show off with; it's the same with pens. I guess, this luxury aspect is Montblanc's fault after having been bought by a company which manufactures luxury items, so the normal Montblancs have gone, and Pelikan follows in these steps, but Lamy of which I hadn't heard when I went to school now provides these Safaris which seem to be the starter pens for many people. A Safari is not a luxury item, and Lamy now seems to be the brand of choice for pupils, even though Pelikan still produces beginner's pens. But Lamy is more active. (I only know the situation here in Germany, and the pen which I have been using for such a long time is a Pelikan.)

In the olden days, there seem to have been pens made of sterling silver, there still are pens made like that, from what I know, but Rolls Royces have been around for a long time as well. You can turn everything into a luxury item, it still won't be a luxury per se.

[Loeschpapier]

...

 

Oh...and some schools still require the use of a fountain pen. Not many, but still.

 

That could be one of the reasons why Lamy headquarters isn't too bothered with manuals.

 

The vast majority of Germans, Austrians and Swiss typically run into their first fountain pen in elementary school ("Schreiblernfueller"), especially the cartridge fillers.

 

I'm in my very early 30ies, so to speak and we were not even allowed to use anything but a fountain pen until 7th grade.

Of course Lamy spread out worldwide but even ten years ago I couldn't find a single Lamy in the US. So in essence one could 'blame' companies for not understanding that in many countries people really don't know how to use them anymore. So Lamy probably is orienting itself on the market where they sell the most - countries with compulsory school attendance where students are taught cursive writing with a fountain pen.

 

And even that changes at this point - I very recently looked up handwriting requirements in current German schools just because I was curious. (lots of interesting history - being East German back then I was tought a different cursive "Schulausgangsschrift" than my fellows on the other side of the wall. I even remember the Soviet Union when it still existed - and even then many people wrote with ballpoint pens)

 

Now I live in tornado alley in the US and saw only one place that sells a few fountain pens, mainly Cross and Aldo Domani. And I'm not even sure those are permanent offers. I have never seen a Lamy pen in any brick and mortar store to begin with. I'd love to support a store that sells pens the old fashioned way - but I doubt Office Depot needs much support. I asked for a pen holder (showed the sales person my beloved 15 year old leather holder) and got a complete deer - in- headlights reactions. It was as if had I asked for something extremely rare and of personal nature.

 

I do think this has to do with changing times because nobody above a certain point needed instructions for sticking a cartridge into a pen. Just like nobody needed an explanation on how to use a payphone and rotary dial.

But at the same time I'm not sure many people even know that fountain pens also can be filled in other ways. I only knew piston filler and cartridge fillers - never saw any eyedroppers and aerometric fillers.

 

Handwriting is starting to die out, not just the fountain pen writing. Doctor's offices move to electronic charts that do not take up extra office space that needs to be secured etc.

How many schools still have actual chalk blackboards boards vs white boards with erasable pens?

 

It just all depends on the local culture. I personally don't know anyone in the US beside myself who uses fountain pens - and I have lived on the East Coast and tornado alley for 12 years. Since the fountain pen aficionados in the US don't need instructions, companies don't really seem to bother.

 

I bet things would change if someone would sue after a bodily injury - which seems to be the reason why US companies explain in great detail that deep frozen pizza might taste better baked in an oven.

 

The only disposable fountain pens (Varsity) I have seen were sold in art supply stores were it is assumed that you know how to use them - the same way people seem to know how to use a chamois cloth and tortillons.

And while I applaud Noodler's efforts (I own the skinny piston filler and a Konrad) - I am quite frankly a bit surprised that it seems that difficult to produce an affordable every day item that doesn't need that much fiddling - and yes, I am aware of the specifics of flex nibs. I learned to write with fountain pens and just about all cheapo students pens I had wrote right out of the box and most fellow students only seemed to their rinse their pen once every 5 years when something exploded inside.

 

I had tons of Herlitz, Senator, Pelikan school pens and two Lamys. Not a single one of them ever had to be soaked, rinsed and scrubbed before getting them to work properly. So perhaps being a large manufacturer producing these items in a mass manner made it easier to spread out the cost? Or does a cheap steel nib with your typical 'iridium' nib make some of that obsolete? In 13 years of going to school I have dropped pens countless times and never had to straighten out tines, either. Benefit of steel, perhaps? And if something happened to your pen it was indeed affordable to replace it - just about every supermarket offers a school fountain pen in their paper department.

 

And I am so looking forward to flying home to Germany and go on a shopping spree. Largely items like blotting paper and a few more every writers since I do appreciate that Herlitz and Senator pens work out of the box. I still have a Senator pen from the early 90ies that practically refuses to die - very similar to a Sheaffer school pen that I bought used. Sturdy stuff.

 

On an ironic note I never heard of Reform pens while in Germany - I bought two off ebay in the US and promptly one has a nib that feels like a rusty nail and no amount of fiddling seems to do any good.

 

It's like contact lenses - you need a prescription in the US and a tech will teach you how to use them correctly. Fountain pens are just a dying breed in many countries and in the countries were students learn to use them nobody needs a manual - and once they reach Junior High they often start using ball point pens because teachers abhor nothing more than a class full of students in a 2 hour written exam - and ONE student will always run out of cartridges. Always.

I remember teachers mentioning to students to PULEAAAZE bring spare catridges.

 

I live in a state in the US were cursive writing is still a mandatory skill on the curriculum. I mentioned once during a teacher conference that I am very much in support of this skill being taught. When I said - you could hear a needle drop, I was stared at as if I came from another planet. A large number of students also has fine motor issues that need to be addressed - if everyone had a chance to practice holding a pen the correct way, they perhaps wouldn't have to devote so much extra energy for a few people. But in a school system of multiple choice tests handwriting becomes an issue.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Loeschpapier

[Daisy25]

Maybe I should open two new threads, but maybe it can be discussed here as well, since people are already in the mood.

 

1) What does the internet mean to fountain pen use?

In my opinion, the internet actually helps to promote fountain pen use. I would never have heard of Noodler's ink or of TWSBI pens, had I not started using the internet to get information about fountain pens. This I did because the pen I used for 35 years was broken inside (wrong converter) and since it was no longer produced, I first turned to Ebay to find a used one in which I could put my nib, but I also looked around to find another one with an OBB nib. I found out that really broad nibs are hard to find, if at all. I got interested in the other pens I saw on the web. I started buying them. I found out that a Sailor zoom nib is not enough for me, and so on, here we are! Now I own fifteen pens, because I have already given some away; I also own many ink bottles. I was happy with my one pen and my bottles of Aurora Blue for a long time; now I am even happier with my TWSBIs and a whole range of Noodler's inks.

 

2) Are fountain pens a luxury?

No. Thea are writing instruments, and they don't cost much, if you just need a pen. You can have a car to drive with and you can have one to show off with; it's the same with pens. I guess, this luxury aspect is Montblanc's fault after having been bought by a company which manufactures luxury items, so the normal Montblancs have gone, and Pelikan follows in these steps, but Lamy of which I hadn't heard when I went to school now provides these Safaris which seem to be the starter pens for many people. A Safari is not a luxury item, and Lamy now seems to be the brand of choice for pupils, even though Pelikan still produces beginner's pens. But Lamy is more active. (I only know the situation here in Germany, and the pen which I have been using for such a long time is a Pelikan.)

In the olden days, there seem to have been pens made of sterling silver, there still are pens made like that, from what I know, but Rolls Royces have been around for a long time as well. You can turn everything into a luxury item, it still won't be a luxury per se.

1) For me, as I noted in an earlier post, the internet has made all the difference. The Fountain Pen Network has been invaluable for me. An online store like Goulet not only provides the product, they provide tons of information, everything from the nib width comparisons to the pen swaps, to videos on new pens or how to disassemble them or change a nib or . . . .

 

2) I don't think of a fountain pen as a luxury item so much as a niche item. Granted, when you start talking really expensive pens, they are luxury items, but there are many many pens that can be found for under 200 dollars. You need some disposable income, but you don't need to be wearing a Rolex and driving a luxury car. Of course, I live in a writing environment. I not only teach at a university, I teach in the English department and I teach writing as well as literature. Granted, some students are using iPads and laptops in the classroom, but they are still in the minority. For most of my students, it's pen to page. Still, students weren't really the niche market I was thinking of -- I was thinking of writers. Poets, novelists, diarists, essayists: there's still a lot of romance with writing. You sit with a pen and notebook in a coffee shop and you can tie yourself to J K Rowling or Hemingway, take your pick. If you want some contemporary cool, you think of Neil Gaiman. So, even people who aren't otherwise into luxury items as part of either their lifestyle or their income bracket, can definitely be wooed by the lure of the perfect pen/ink/paper moment.

[Paddler]

As a new fountain pen user and a lover/owner/user of many of the items (i.e. guns, guitars, safety razors and espresso machines) that fountain pens were compared to in this thread, I'm going to wade into the fray.

 

. . .

 

Finally, lets get down to a couple of comparisons. You brought up musical instruments, and while I don't play violin, I do play guitar. I understand that when I purchase one, it won't be set to my exact specifications, but if I purchase a Gibson Les Paul for $1500, I expect that when I plug it in, it will play. As for guns, I like 1911s, which some might are argue are like the fountain pens of the handgun world. They are an old design, they take some maintenance to keep running, but when you drop a $1000 on one, I believe there is a reasonable expectation that you don't have to immediately send it to a gunsmith in order to get working properly. The same reasonable expectation should be made for a fountain pen above certain price. I'm not talking about a Noodler’s Pen, that come free with a bottle of ink, but anything north of say $50 maybe should have someone test right before it gets sent out to customer/retailer, because purchasing a $150 pen directly from the manufacturer and it arrives with bent tines or flow problems to the point that it does not write is pretty pathetic.

 

 

Finally, lets get down to a couple of comparisons. You brought up musical instruments, and while I don't play violin, I do play guitar. I understand that when I purchase one, it won't be set to my exact specifications, but if I purchase a Gibson Les Paul for $1500, I expect that when I plug it in, it will play. As for guns, I like 1911s, which some might are argue are like the fountain pens of the handgun world. They are an old design, they take some maintenance to keep running, but when you drop a $1000 on one, I believe there is a reasonable expectation that you don't have to immediately send it to a gunsmith in order to get working properly. The same reasonable expectation should be made for a fountain pen above certain price. I'm not talking about a Noodler’s Pen, that come free with a bottle of ink, but anything north of say $50 maybe should have someone test right before it gets sent out to customer/retailer, because purchasing a $150 pen directly from the manufacturer and it arrives with bent tines or flow problems to the point that it does not write is pretty pathetic.

 

 

The guns are made for the mass market. They are made for the person who buys at a gun shop, goes to the range, shoots half a box of ammo and then puts the gun on the closet shelf and feels ready for a home invader. Regardless of how much is paid for the gun, the sights may be wonky, the barrel full of machining chatter marks, the slide loose, and the mechanism unreliable. The gun will shoot, however. You can expect to hit a pie plate at 30 feet with it, most of the time. If you want to hit a cigarette with it at 30 feet, you need to wrap it in even more money and send it to the firearms' equivalent of a nibmeister and have the slide peened, the barrel bushing tightened, a match grade barrel installed, the sear honed, and the hammer spring lightened.

 

I don't know from electric guitars. I play acoustic instruments. Acoustic guitars come from the factory with high actions because it is easier for a set-up tech to lower an action than it is to raise one. The guitar will be playable, but its intonation will probably be lousy. Other instruments come the same way. A hurdygurdy will arrive with nylon strings and dull tangents. A mandolin's bridge will be in the wrong place. A flute will need voicing.

 

Fountain pen manufacturers do the same thing. They know that when people find their new pen is scratchy and skippy, chances are really good they will toss the pen in a desk drawer and forget about it, or they will wrap it in even more money and send it to a nibmeister to be set up (smoothed, shaped, and flow regulated). The manufacturer can live with the few that are returned for warranty service. It is not the pen industry that is its own worst enemy; the enemy is the customer who lets the manufacturer off his own warranty hook.

[Ike Levens]

I forgot the obvious.

 

We just don't write anymore. A single ball point pen worth $0.50 can last years for many of us. All we do with pens is sign on stuff.

 

I could give the same argument for a lot of other industries. Fax. Landlines. TVs. Radio. Music. Movies. Sewing. Craftsmanship.

Our world is changing. Things that are redundant will wither out.

 

Music will never go out of style. A certain format for music, like the CD may go out of style, but music is too central to the human condition to ever go out of style.

1. if you can not figure out how to refill a fountain pen, probably you deserve a 50 cent ballpoint.

2. economically is not worth for this industry to invest in testing/showing/nib-meistering to individuals how is every pen. it would be nice, nut is not going to happened.

 

I learned to fill my pen from a video on Brian Goulet's site. He really is doing online retail the way it should be done. No printed words, or even diagrams, are going to be nearly as useful as those videos are.

There is a Paradise Pen in the mall in Austin - but I don't actually live in Austin, I live in a rural area that is a 45-minute commute to work, and further to the mall with the pen store.

 

And Paradise in the mall is somewhat limited.

 

To get to the Mont Blanc boutique in San Antonio or the old-fashioned family-owned pen store in Houston is a drive of 2 hours.

 

And in Texas, we consider these to be reasonable commuting distances. Many people have to drive that far to get to a pen store or many other types of specialty stores.

 

But it's still true that I'm not going to get to go to a real pen store very often. So, if I want to try something new from a wide selection, it has to be an online purchase.

 

I'm looking forward very much to the trip to visit my daughter in New Orleans later this month. We will stop at Dromgoole's in Houston on the way and at PapierPlume in the French Quarter while we're in New Orleans. My long-suffering husband and daughter will put up with this and indulge me.

 

Pen paradise is the only pen retailer I know of in my entire state. (Technically goldspot is here, but they have no store front.) I looked at their online catalog, saw they don't carry Noodler's ink, and decided that this store isn't my style.

 

That is where I'm completely ignorant with, as I am a string player. Strings are more easily replaced than nibs, bows are rehaired, pegs replaced, bridges re-inserted, chin rest changed, tailpiece exchanged... which are like nibs for me. The actual body, however, with the sound post, is the barrel of the pen. Well nigh irreplaceable. If it's broken, better spend beaucoup bucks to fix it, or pray to St Jude. Therefore, most violinists end up with one or two violins that they use as their main for their entire lives (there are people like Paganini who had about five Strads, but he's an oddball), with one luthier shop they always take the violin to (and one bow luthier, which is usually manned by two people at most... a master and an apprentice. Very middle ages). Mine is in Chicago, and if my violin decides that the French weather is too awful for its delicate health and decides to get ill, I'd have to fly back to get it readjusted. I don't trust anyone else.

 

Nib grinding, similarly, is like violin-repair for me. I don't do repairs. I'm a player. I play it, I don't mess with sound posts, and if it falls over, I take it to a trusted luthier. I also leave nib grinding to the professionals, because I find that even a slightest change is noticeable when I write (one of the reasons I don't really buy vintage pens). A millimetre dislocation of a sound post can change the tone of a violin from a sonorous bird to a very drunk hobo, and I figure that nib-grinding is the same.

 

I generally write an entire page with a pen before deciding if it's a dud. Usually, by mid-page, the writing is either smooth or scratchy. I only use EF nibs, so I've no idea what a scratchy M nib feels like.

 

Keep in mind that I come from a family in which the engagement and birthdays were celebrated not with rings and cars but with fountain pens. I grew up knowing what it was and what to do with it, just as I knew not to touch others' instruments (my mother plays the piano, my father guitar, and I play the violin, and we don't touch each other's instruments). So what may come as common sense to me would not be common sense to others.

 

I also find that despite being able to tweak nibs, it's not quite the same as getting the sound post re-adjusted. With sound posts (or at least, in my experience... I've knocked it over once or twice, and have gotten it readjusted a few times depending on the upcoming repertoire), you stand in while your luthier adjusts it, so you can make requests like "make the sound brighter" or "deeper on the G, please". A few of my teachers stood in with me when they could, out of their rather busy schedules. I don't think you can do that with nibs, so I don't expect a nib grinder to be able to meet my "please make the writing smooth when I do hane strokes" request if he doesn't write Chinese or Japanese.

 

Pens are more widely used by people, and therefore modernisation is far ahead of musical instruments. Violins and pianos, though, are still tuned personally, with the owners requesting adjustments (I mean, my most recent music isn't even type-setted. It's a facsimile from 1700s). I suppose I'm too used to that kind of system.

 

Ever since I got my first guitar I've never let anyone setup my guitars but myself, who could ever know when the action feels right to me better than I do? (I happen to like to play with an unusual action with the treble strings noticeably lower than the bass strings for quick single note playing over ringing open chords. Similarly, it seems like I would be able to customize my own nib because it would be at my ideal angle since I'd be the one gripping it. (I haven't put this theory to the rest yet, but I also don't have any customized nibs yet.

Why can't fountain pens be like iPhones?

Because they are infinitely better. You can customize your pen by receiving it into a stub or oblique if you want, which is equivalent to a kernel mod, therefore pens are clearly more like android than they are like iPhone. Also, they have a text entry system that's even faster than Google predictive typing, which is worlds faster than Apple's system.

[GabrielleDuVent]

C) I'm with you on the FPN multifunction, cross-referenced, annotated, sortable, portable website! I don't think I'd bring it up right now though. The admins just had a terrible time with the current site!

 

It's not impossible, even without servers/admins. Another forum (dedicated to personality sorters) made an "idiot's guide to [the said personality type]", a sort of how-to-deal-with-us manual that seemed to help a lot of people deal with people like... me, because people like me are notoriously difficult to deal with/understand/not get otherwise affronted by. (Yes, people like me do exist in numbers. Just very, very few...)

 

If I recall correctly, it was done on WordPress after compiling the information on a thread. Since everyone on the forum was good at ordering priorities/collecting information/sampling the similarities and that sort of thing, the task went rather smoothly. I'm not sure how much the guide helped anybody, but it was compiled in a rather short time.

 

Anyway, I rather went off-topic. Apologies for digressing.