A Better Dip Nib

[dcwaites]

I learnt cursive writing with a dip pen, under the tutelage of Miss Hat, in the Primary School at Kerema, in the then Territory (or colony) of Papua New Guinea. The holders were plain cylindrical pieces of wood, like a pencil but narrower, with a ferrule at one end that held the nib. Even then, to me as a nine-year-old, those pen holders felt uncomfortable and un-ergonomic even though I didn't know the word even existed then.

At the end of our time at Kerema, my father had accumulated 6 months long-service leave which we spent in Sydney, with relatives.
which we spent in Sydney. My siblings and I went to school at the local public school.

Opposite the school was a little corner shop that sold ice-creams and lollies, bread and milk, and pen holders. But these were magic pen holders. They had a bulbous end and a narrowed ridged section behind that for your fingers. They were ergonomic (although I still didn't know the word). But I could see, and feel, the obvious benefit to using these for my dip pen nibs. That was the beginning of my life-long fascination with pens and stationery.

Flash forward nearly a handful of decades. I have just joined the FPN and in my eagerness to recreate the writing of my youth I buy a box of nibs, some holders that seem to be identical to those in the little corner shop, and some powdered ink. It took quite some time to get the nibs working with that ink and the paper I had, but I finally got to the stage where I could simply pick up the pen, dip and write.

In the years since then I have obtained over 20 different types of dip pen nibs, all with different writing characteristics. Generally they were far too wet to use with most FP inks, and the scratching of of some of the nibs resulted in substantial feathering and bleeding. They were fine if I used my limited set of dip pen friendly inks and paper that behaved like traditional vintage paper (i.e. Reflex Ultra).

However, one thing that I regularly wanted to do with dip pens was to compare different inks because it was so easy to change inks. Just remove the excess ink, rinse and dip in the new ink. However, as noted above, most dip pens were too wet, and gave an unrealistic sample of the tested ink.

Of all the dip nibs I had, only one gave me results similar to a fountain pen -- the Perry Iridinoid 105 and that was because it had a folded tip similar to cheap fountain pens or early model Pilot V-Pens. Its main problem was that it was still quite a fine nib and often a new one needed the nib tips reshaped and smoothed to the pen would write nicely.

One day I was looking through a box of pen bits and found the nib and feed from a small Chinese `Leonardo' pen. The nib looked as though it would fit into a standard pen holder, and it did. I check the tines and nib-tip with a loupe and all looked fine. I dipped, it held a reasonable amount of ink, and it wrote like a dream. All the smoothness and ink control of a fountain pen, with the lightness in hand and ease of changing inks of a dip pen. One dip held enough ink for 3 ~ 10 lines of writing, depending on how wet the ink was.

I looked around and found a couple of other pens I could commandeer the nibs from. One was another small nib from an unknown model of Huashilai and the second was the large nib from a Huashilai 3000. The two smaller nibs fitted into red nylon pen holders and the larger into a Tachikawa holder.

So, what about the cost of using FP nibs as dip nibs? Well, firstly the pens they came from were being used. They were either two heavy, or had badly designed bodies, or the feed didn't work. This way they have at least been put to use. Secondly the pens they came from are very cheap, $6 or less on eBay. Even if you buy such a pen just for the nib, you are only paying $6 for an absolutely superb dip pen nib, compared to paying $3 or more for a Perry Iridinoid nib that won't be anywhere as nice to use.

 

 

These are the three nibs. Top Left - Leonardo, Bottom Left - Small Huashilai, Right - Huashilai 3000

 

 

And this is a bottle of Faux Penman Sapphire #8b I found in a drawer. After a few years untouched, it is still in perfect condition, and works excellently on my papers.

 

[Paddler]

I have to use gold nibs with my homemade walnut ink. It is so corrosive, a steel nib only lasts for a few pages. I use a No.2 Parker "Lucky Curve" nib from a trashed flea market pen. It fits a standard holder.

 

Another flea market find for standard inks: If you can find an Esterbrook "Penesco" No. 541, it will behave like a rather dry fountain pen nib. It has a spoon point and is smooth as silk. I get eight lines of writing (letter size) on a single dip, using blue/black Quink. The line width is on the thick side of fine. If you write with your fingers, it gives great shading.

 

[Sandy1]

Hi,

 

I cannot attribute my attraction to ink+pens+paper to a milk bar with its "ice-creams and lollies, bread and milk". I shudder to imagine how many times you spend the milk money on ink & pens.

 

I still use a dip pen for ad hoc sampling of ink mixes, where hue is the primary concern, and many samples may be run in short order. I have settled on the Brause 'Ornament' series, which have over-under reservoirs that give a remarkably even ink flow. The value (light-dark) of the line is within the range of my 'normal' FPs, so I can use those results to continue work on the mix. But final trials are run in fountain pen/s - one needs to evaluate flow through the feed of an FP.

 

Also, I found that using an FP, (with the feed in place), as a dip pen has the draw-back of ink being drawn up the feed towards the reservoir, which then needs to be flushed. Time spent in flushing & drying the FP really extends the time for sampling during mixing.

 

I certainly will take you up on your suggestion to try FP nibs in FPs without the feed. (I have yet to spend all the milk money on ink pens & paper.)

 

Bye,

S1

 

___ ___

Edit to add:

◇ Brause Ornament array: http://www.scribblers.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.scribblers.co.uk%2f&WD=ornament%20brause&PN=Brause_Ornament_Nibs.html%23a152#a152

◇ Brause Ornament written sample: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234049-noodlers-lexington-gray-galileo-manuscript-brown/page__view__findpost__p__2517090

Edited June 2, 2013 by Sandy1

[MisterBoll]

Thank you for the great story. I look forward to seeing how this works - or how well I can get it to work.

[Uncle Red]

I know another member has put Noodler's Ahab nibs in holders. The new flex nibs from FPR are available loose too.

[dcwaites]

Hi,

 

I cannot attribute my attraction to ink+pens+paper to a milk bar with its "ice-creams and lollies, bread and milk". I shudder to imagine how many times you spend the milk money on ink & pens.

 

I still use a dip pen for ad hoc sampling of ink mixes, where hue is the primary concern, and many samples may be run in short order. I have settled on the Brause 'Ornament' series, which have over-under reservoirs that give a remarkably even ink flow. The value (light-dark) of the line is within the range of my 'normal' FPs, so I can use those results to continue work on the mix. But final trials are run in fountain pen/s - one needs to evaluate flow through the feed of an FP.

 

Also, I found that using an FP, (with the feed in place), as a dip pen has the draw-back of ink being drawn up the feed towards the reservoir, which then needs to be flushed. Time spent in flushing & drying the FP really extends the time for sampling during mixing.

 

I certainly will take you up on your suggestion to try FP nibs in FPs without the feed. (I have yet to spend all the milk money on ink pens & paper.)

 

Bye,

S1

 

___ ___

Edit to add:

◇ Brause Ornament array: http://www.scribblers.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww.scribblers.co.uk%2f&WD=ornament%20brause&PN=Brause_Ornament_Nibs.html%23a152#a152

◇ Brause Ornament written sample: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php?/topic/234049-noodlers-lexington-gray-galileo-manuscript-brown/page__view__findpost__p__2517090

 

Given that I was too young to have milk-money, and the milk was, at that time, provided free to State Public Schools, my pocket money was spent on musk-sticks, an addiction I feed to this day...

(along with pens, papers, inks, .....) It only gets confusing when I suck on a pen, and try to write with a musk-stick.

[DanF]

I made this discovery a while ago as well. The #6 nibs from a number of sources work well as dip nibs. XFountainpens.com has a wide range of points on German made nibs that seem to write a little finer than than one would expect from a western nib. #6 Bock or Jowo nibs will also fit most modern holders. I turn my own holders in order to get the best fit for my hand.

 

I think I bought a few of those Iridinoid pens from DC when he first discovered them, and the do write pretty well with modern commercial inks, the reservoir must slow down the ink flow to the paper.

 

Dan

[Gloucesterman]

Several years ago I purchased a "Xezo" pen on line. When I received it and started writing with it, somehow the nib came loose. I immediately contacted the company and along with their sincere apology, they sent a new nib section right away. As, at the time, I really knew nothing about nib assembly (or dis-assembly) I simply tossed out the feed and kept the nib (it looked gold ). After putting the nib into a dip pen holder, I was amazed at how smoothly it wrote and have used it on occasion even though it was a medium and I prefer a fine/extra fine point.

 

Subsequently the only problems encountered has been the relatively small amount of ink the nib retains after a dip and hence the shorter writing duration before another dip is required. As I am writing this I recall that somewhere I have a nib holder with an appendage that serves as an in reservoir. Perhaps later in the day, during a break from work, I will track that holder down and see if it is useable with the old nib.

 

Thanks for your story and the reminder of optional uses for "former" fountain pen nibs.

-S-

[dcwaites]

While I was writing the article I just posted on Revisiting V-Mail inks, I found that one advantage of having FP nibs out of their pens is that they are relatively easy to adjust the wetness.

I needed a dryish pen to do some samples and testing and I was able to adjust a Haolilai nib to just the right degree of dryness that suited these inks.

[ac12]

Cool idea.

This would be better than using a glass pen for ink testing.

 

I have a few dip pen nib holders.

Maybe the next time I make an order from Goulet, I will add in one of his nibs.

And maybe get some of the Chinese pens to scavenge the nibs.

I just hope the nibs fits my nib holders.

 

And now that I have a use for the nib holders, I need to find them.

 

Thanks guys

[DanF]

The #6 nibs from Bock or Jowo (Goulet) fit most penholders perfectly. No need to buy a pen hoping that the nib will fit.

 

Dan

[dcwaites]

The #6 nibs from Bock or Jowo (Goulet) fit most penholders perfectly. No need to buy a pen hoping that the nib will fit.

 

Dan

 

Jinhao X450 pens are available on eBay for $6 with free shipping. Their nibs are superb. They are large, and will fit any standard pen holder.

[DanF]

 

Jinhao X450 pens are available on eBay for $6 with free shipping. Their nibs are superb. They are large, and will fit any standard pen holder.

Hard to beat that price!

 

Dan

[Bo Bo Olson]

Thank you Sandy,

I do have Brause 'Ornament' series, with over-under reservoirs, sitting in a mini-mini- 2" x 3" briefcase.

I can dip samples, before filling, and cleaning&cleaning&Cleaning pens.

 

I was given a plastic dip pen with a fast slick bottomed feed. The first and only dip pen nib I tried a Hunt 56 school pen was very rough and scratchy; but I did write three or four lines on a single dip.

 

That was a school nib...and I'd call that a wet noodle....not that it is anywhere in the same class as the 99-100-101 Hunts for flex.

 

I think I'll have to bring out my nib smoothing kit and do a tad of work on that nib. One of our better posters does that to his dip pen nibs.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

[Paddler]

You can easily adjust the plain steel dip pen nibs for wetness, too. The Spencerian "Society Stub" comes a gusher right from the box. A little pinch and tweak tames it right down for use with fountain pen inks.

 

I bought many fountain pens at the local flea market, over the years, and many of them show evidence of work done by a repair person. The repairs were probably done back in the heyday of fountain pendom. One of his signature fixes was to make a nib dryer by peening the slit. I can see where he used a small chisel to upset the metal right behind the tipping to close down the slit slightly. The dent is always on the underside of the nib where it doesn't show. This was done to the nib in my 1943 vintage P51.

Edited November 17, 2013 by Paddler

[dcwaites]

When I wrote the original piece, I neglected to include some examples to prove my point.

 

I have included four samples of rather similar blue inks - Noodler's Blue, Everflo True Blue, Parker Penman Sapphire and Visconti Blue.

Each line has a short sample from the named fountain pen, a dip pen (D. Leonardt 516F), and a fountain pen nib mounted as dip nib (#5 Haolilai Medium).

 

You can see that the samples with the FP nib are fairly close to the Fountain Pen version, but the Dip Pen samples are much darker, and also resemble each other too much to be useful.