Show Us Your Oblique Penholders!

[farmerjohn]

  On 11/28/2013 at 5:55 AM, mvarela said:

 

That's the whole point of it, actually. It allows the nib to be aligned with the slant of the script (for Copperplate and Spencerian), so that the tines open symmetrically. If you write those scripts with a straight holder, you need to turn your page significantly more (write "upwards"), and it requires a more contorted pen hold.

that makes a bit of sense so things like italic and things like that are more for conventional pens where as the more calligraphic styles need a offset nib? And what are some good material to learn spencerian?

Edited November 28, 2013 by farmerjohn

[mvarela]

  On 11/28/2013 at 6:21 AM, farmerjohn said:

that makes a bit of sense so things like italic and things like that are more for conventional pens where as the more calligraphic styles need a offset nib? And what are some good material to learn spencerian?

For italic, gothic styles and such, you just use a broad-edged nib on a straight holder (or a quill, if you're into that).

 

As for learning Spencerian, there is a lot of material on the IAMPETH site, and also on the "Learning Spencerian" thread in this forum: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/206198-learning-spencerian/

[hzsimms]

  On 11/3/2013 at 11:39 AM, Columba Livia said:

http://i.imgur.com/dy0U1J3.jpg

^

https://archive.org/stream/businesseducator22zane#page/n319/mode/2up

 

Having a goodly supply of "India rubber" on hand, I thought I'd give this holder a try. The only photos I was able to find were a few thumbnails from an expired eBay.uk auction. That being the case, there's a lot of guessing going on here. As for that "screw in" flange thingie, I have no idea what's up with that so I didn't even try. Went with the tried and true Zanerian mount.

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/image_zps6c20598c.jpg

 

Most of the work on this holder is done by hand, the lathe being of very little help when making a triangular end!

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/image_zpse3db64e3.jpg

 

It appears to me that the sides of the triangular end are concave on the original, so I tried to duplicate that as best I could.

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/image_zps9cbf0f4b.jpg

 

Having written with it (I didn't say having written well!), the best word I can use to describe it is "funky". I suppose the idea is that it would somehow be more ergonomic than a round holder, but, at least for me, it didn't work out that way. It feels decidedly chunky to me. I think that natural selection applies as much to the universe of pen holders as it does to dodo birds...there's probably a reason the Ransomerian isn't with us anymore.

[Cognaticrotty]

Well after reading all of this thread I'm really excited for the Xmas present my brother is getting me..... A 5/8 century, a speedball, and 11 nikko g nibs along with some de atramentis midnight ink. This will definitely be a new learning curve for me, as I mostly write overhand (hooked...I'm a leftie) but have been practicing writing underhand, mainly because I really want to learn italic script

 

Oh, and fwiw,....I LOVE diamine ancient copper for shading.

[dhnz]

Not the right thread for this, but since it's come up here: If you want to learn italic, why the Nikko G nibs? And the fountain pen ink instead of dip pen ink? I hope at least that the Century holder is the standard model, not the oblique.

[Cognaticrotty]

  On 12/1/2013 at 11:06 PM, dhnz said:

Not the right thread for this, but since it's come up here: If you want to learn italic, why the Nikko G nibs? And the fountain pen ink instead of dip pen ink? I hope at least that the Century holder is the standard model, not the oblique.

My apologies, I meant I was writing underhand to work on italic script. The oblique holders are for Spencerian work and to improve on my patience with my handwriting

[hzsimms]

  On 12/1/2013 at 11:44 PM, Cognaticrotty said:

My apologies, I meant I was writing underhand to work on italic script. The oblique holders are for Spencerian work and to improve on my patience with my handwriting

 

Patience is good when it comes to this stuff...wish I could develop a little more myself!

[dhnz]

  On 12/1/2013 at 11:44 PM, Cognaticrotty said:

My apologies, I meant I was writing underhand to work on italic script. The oblique holders are for Spencerian work and to improve on my patience with my handwriting

 

In that case, I'd recommend EF Principals over G nibs and any of the dip-pen iron-gall inks (Walker's, Blot's, McCaffrey's, etc) over fountain pen ink. They really will make a difference.

[Cognaticrotty]

  On 12/2/2013 at 4:25 AM, dhnz said:

 

In that case, I'd recommend EF Principals over G nibs and any of the dip-pen iron-gall inks (Walker's, Blot's, McCaffrey's, etc) over fountain pen ink. They really will make a difference.

awesome. thanks for the heads up on the ink.

[thang1thang2]

  On 12/2/2013 at 4:25 AM, dhnz said:

 

In that case, I'd recommend EF Principals over G nibs and any of the dip-pen iron-gall inks (Walker's, Blot's, McCaffrey's, etc) over fountain pen ink. They really will make a difference.

 

EF Principals are probably one of the worst nibs to learn with. They're so sharp and flexible that it requires a fine touch that no beginner has. The G nibs are excellent for beginners, and are far more durable as well. While the iron-gall inks are better, I would strongly suggest any beginner to start with something like an esterbrook 358 or any G nib.

[dhnz]

When it comes to nibs, I strongly believe that you should start with the materials you're going to end up using. I can see the point in learning business hand first with a non-flexible nib, then learning Spencerian with a flexible nib, but I don't see the point in learning Spencerian with a mildly flexible nib when you're still going to have to learn to do it with a flexible nib. I particularly think starting with a mildly flexible nib delays learning how to develop a light touch, which is essential for Spencerian, and possibly even encourages the use of a heavy hand, which habit may be harder to break later. The old-time Spencerian manuals also did not advocate starting with nibs as stiff as the G nibs, usually recommending the Gillott 604 or Principality or their Zanerian equivalents.

 

It's entirely a matter of personal choice of course, but for myself I am glad that when I started to learn Spencerian I chose to use the EF Principal.

Edited December 3, 2013 by dhnz

[Bo Bo Olson]

It's good I decided it was time to get a oblique nib holder.

In my1881 western, due to it's some time real hard to read a replica catalog...I'd had Caskell's Compendium of Business Forms and not Gaskell's, as my murderous heroine's main book. Penmanship(at first Common Business writing), book keeping, laws, etiquette, agricultural, mining receipts etc. She gets his other penmanship books a bit later. But she's mostly interested in book keeping and money management. Other girls in her new profession, buy Paris dresses(status), being a bit dry; she does accounting; planning on buying vacant lots and build houses. Of course she has problems.

 

C&G look much alike in an 1894-5 Montgomery Ward replica Catalog. pg 109-110 is missing where oblique pen holders could and more than likely were; in it was representative, not complete. So oblique pen holders were not part of my picture of the time. She would rather write than learn the 126 different embroidery stitches. She has a great deal of catching up to do.

There were other straight pen holders in it and the 1900-1902 Sears, some very fancy.

 

Well originally I started reading this to find out what oblique pen holder I should buy as noobie.

 

I do have some 16 nibs and holders (I got some sort of deal when I bought the nibs...got the holders real cheap)...and two higher class antique holders with nibs.

They have just been sitting there.

Some Brause, a few Hunt's including 99-100-101 & a Soennecken

Most of the nibs are different.

I just did an inventory to decide what oblique pen holders I need to buy.

 

I will be getting one of the fancy long tailed pen holders I've seen so many pictures of.

However, I think I can leave the plastic Hunt-Speed ball off the list.

 

Which do I need and in what order?

Hourglass adjustable Oblique holder

5/8" Century Oblique holder

Blackwell's holder.

And

One long tailed fancy holder. This does not need to be bought now.......money is not the problem. It's knowing enough to get it thicker or 'string wrapped' like a certain grand master did.

I do find it odd he'd not just had one of the good pen turners of his era turn him a pen, instead of using jury rigged.

 

The basic I don't know my A from E. (It was nice to see the product improved with the metal used, in rapid order.)

The nibs I have....all of these have real good to a lot of flex as far as I can see.

Brause Rustica 64, a small thin Brause 511, Brause 328 M, Brause 50, Brause Bremer Borsenfeder (Stockmarket nib?)

 

Hunt Mapping Round Point 03, Hunt Graphic round point 44, Hunt drawing 99, Hunt Round point 100 (101 too but its hiding.)

Mueller Schragspitze # 9

Iverson & Finley NY. Spenserian #1

Soennecken #11 weich (soft) M

K. Wasilewski iS ka Aluminum (gold/brass colored) 1411EF,

2 X Schagen’s Kugelspitz dauer feder …bend over ink holding apparatus Rd 21639.

 

I have 7 or so others but they have bent up ornamental tips and have little to no flex; most have an underside slide on ink holder..

[dhnz]

  On 12/3/2013 at 11:43 PM, Bo Bo Olson said:

Which do I need and in what order?

Hourglass adjustable Oblique holder

5/8" Century Oblique holder

Blackwell's holder.

And

One long tailed fancy holder. This does not need to be bought now.......money is not the problem. It's knowing enough to get it thicker or 'string wrapped' like a certain grand master did.

I do find it odd he'd not just had one of the good pen turners of his era turn him a pen, instead of using jury rigged.

 

It's up to you. Frankly, you might be best buying a Speedball holder and a dozen or so Principal EFs and seeing if this is something you're really interested in. Plenty of time to buy something better later on.

 

I don't find it odd that Madarasz used an Excelsior – writing was a job to him so I imagine he didn't see the need for a flashy long pen when the Excelsior did everything he wanted. The fact he would break off the tails of the longer holders tells us that he preferred a shorter holder, and the Excelsior fits the hand very nicely. Plus, he didn't have to worry about losing or damaging them and he could probably afford to give them away to students.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Bought the Esterbrook nibs.

 

Read do not buy the cheap Speed ball; has a sloppy hold.

Some one recommended not buying the PIA Hour glass, in one of the 4 or so sub posts on Google.

I really didn't want to buy three oblique holders, one for big, one for medium and one for small nibs.

Edited December 4, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

[dhnz]

Which Esterbook nibs? There are many available.

 

I wouldn't say the Speedball has a sloppy hold – I always found it gripped the standard-size nibs well (something I can't say about the Blackwell, which I've found can let the nib slip). You don't have to buy three holders, but unless you buy one of the PIA holders, you are going to require different flanges for different size nibs, or be forever adjusting the flange when you swap a nib.

 

What reason was given for not buying the PIA hourglass? Some people may prefer an easier to adjust flange (and it is adjusted more for engrosser's script than Spencerian), but the tradeoff would be that you'd lose the one-flange-fits-all design. As far as quality, fit, and finish go, it's a beautiful holder and definitely one of my favourites.

 

I still think a Speedball would be a good idea. What's the point in spending a lot on a holder if you don't know that this is something you'll keep at or enjoy?

Edited December 5, 2013 by dhnz

[Bo Bo Olson]

I read around in the other 4 threads here about oblique holders listed in Google.

 

I didn't write down who said don't buy the Hour Glass adjustable but he was some one who seemed to have some clout.

 

There was a link to a blog where the guy sounded like he knew what he was talking about...who mentioned sloppy Speedball. Besides the usual suspects; Stuhl, Lilly, Blackwell, mentioned York and the man who just got done showing us so many beautiful pen holders...Bob? The last as 'new' to him. So don't know when it was written.

 

There was mention of 3 sizes of nibs, and I got a couple small ones, and a couple large ones to go with 'to me" many nibs....other 12-13 or so 'regular sized ones.

 

The Esterbrook nibs were a mix, that is on this thread early on...post 80.

http://www.ebay.com/...25860628&_rdc=1

 

I had listed to look to buy one or two; Peerless cushioned, Stuhl, Regular Century and H96 at John Neal book seller.

The hour glass adjustable will not be available until mid December so I have no hurry.

 

 

I knew I was headed in this direction, even before I dropped a small fortune on a silver Russian holder, with a real nice crocodile paper box (worn on top)...considering the WW1 era. A strip of brass threaded bordered 'carpet' with brass sewing in the lid gives the box some class.

 

Soon I'll be able to block some time in, for both stiff nib and flexible nib calligraphy.

 

As soon as I sort out a photo site, I'll load a picture of it.

 

I bought Dip pen ink when I was in the states a year and a half a go. I couldn't find any oblique holders, not even a Speedball. I did find 9 Windsor and Newon inks.

 

 

Sigh, now I need old fashioned ink wells with pen holder racks. ...and a much bigger desk.

Edited December 5, 2013 by Bo Bo Olson

[dhnz]

I had a look and found a thread here where two people discussed having problems with Esterbrook 357s slipping in the PIA hourglass, but I have to say that that has not been my experience and I haven't read of other people having that problem.

 

The Esterbook boxes are good value, but I've never had much luck with the 354s and 355s – I've had trouble getting consistent ink flow from both them and their Hunt equivalents. The 356s, 357s, and 358s are nice nibs. The 357s are said to be highly desired but I still prefer the EF Principal. In my opinion (and it's just my opinion) the flexibility of the 357s is due to the thinness of the tines, whereas in the Principals it's due to the design of the nib. As a result, I find the 357s too soft for my liking. But everyone has their preferences and you will find yours.

 

Old ink wells and pen racks are nice, but many do not fit oblique pen holders. The McCaffrey inkwells are not as pretty as a 100-year old glass model but they are portable, very stable, and virtually indestructible.

 

When you say that "Soon I'll be able to block some time in, for … calligraphy", it still sounds to me like you're intent on spending your money on supplies before you even know if this is the thing for you. It's your money to spend, sure, and lots of people buy up large when they first start a new hobby, but equally I suspect that lots of people end up with a drawer full of unused equipment when they find that the hobby is not really for them.

[MusinkMan]

Couple of new ones...I scored some really superfine flame maple, and am continuing with the aniline dyes. These are the techniques used on really nice electric guitars (ala PRS, Tom Anderson, figured topped Gibsons, etc.). In fact, this flame maple I'm using is actually luthier wood, the best 5-AAAAA grade that I could find. Makes a really pretty handle!

 

One in orange, and one in green...

 

 

Edited December 17, 2013 by MusinkMan

[caliken]

  On 12/17/2013 at 6:58 AM, MusinkMan said:

Couple of new ones...

One in orange, and one in green...

 

 

Beautiful craftsmanship.....as ever.

 

Ken

Edited December 17, 2013 by caliken

[Scribe_Not]

Holy Schneikies Brian!!! You been eating handfuls of Skittles? Talk about tasting the rainbows... you're gonna make the Big Guy up there jealous making all these gorgeous rainbow staves!

Seriously Bubba, you just pushed the envelope all the way off the table with the last one of this Trio I just spotted on Etsy. Fats Domino is spinning in his grave about that one.

Is there any jewel tone that you can't do?