Show Us Your Oblique Penholders!

[MusinkMan]

Cool, Presto! Nice Purple Heart, well oxidized to a deep purple. Ain't nuthin' wrong with that...good job.

Edited November 5, 2013 by MusinkMan

[MusinkMan]

A fresh one that I just finished. Sheesh...making these damn things late into the night! Blonde wifey not happy about that, brothers. No indeed. But my Etsy store is bare, and I have custom orders to fill. Sometimes a man just gotta do what a man gotta do. yeah?

 

[dhnz]

Re the purple heart holder, it’s well made but I wonder whether it might be too heavy for easy use. I understand the user has big hands, but keeping it so thick all the way to the end (including the finial) may make it unwieldy.

Edited November 5, 2013 by dhnz

[smk]

Hey Everyone, I thought I'd jump in and ask for some feedback about some of the penholders I made. This one is solid purpleheart. It's wide because I made it for a person with large hands.

 

That is a nice looking holder. I do agree with dhnz about the size of the finial though - that much mass moving about on the end of the holder might not be a great idea.

 

Also, the flange need not be that long. The curved part that takes the nib needs to sit closer to the shaft so the tip of the nib would be in line with the center of the holder when inserted. In the picture of Musinkman's holder above, you can clearly see how the nib is supposed to line up.

 

This is an excellent start and I'm sure whoever uses that holder will enjoy writing with it.

 

Salman

[smk]

A fresh one that I just finished. Sheesh...making these damn things late into the night! Blonde wifey not happy about that, brothers. No indeed. But my Etsy store is bare, and I have custom orders to fill. Sometimes a man just gotta do what a man gotta do. yeah?

 

 

Brian - keeping your Etsy store stocked is a losing battle. I don't think you can make these lovely holders fast enough. It might be time to consider an apprentice :-)

 

BTW - I used the brass sheet you sent me for making a flange today (yes it took me this long to get to it :-). I first thought the material might be a bit on the thin side but it turns out to be just perfect. Thank you for keeping me in stock.

 

Salman

[Mickey]

 

I saw this at Zanerian as well. I actually found some photos of the thing on eBay's UK site, but only the thumbnails are still available. I contacted the seller but they didn't have the larger photos saved. From what I can see of the thumbnails, the actual holder looks a little different than the drawing. It seems to have substantially more "girth" on the front end. What's up with that flange mount is an absolute mystery, though! I might take a stab at this one in the near future. As Brian can attest, I've got "India rubber" galore! And in a wide variety of colors and styles to boot!

I posted a response regarding this holder yesterday, which seems to have been lost by the system.

 

The flange looks to be nothing more than the standard removal flange, just like on the Zanerian style rosewood holder available from John Neal and others. The screw is simply a replacement for the matchstick or Stimudent many of us use to secure the flange. At least that's my best guess from the ad.

 

If the picture is moderately accurate, this holder would best suit writers with an old fashioned pen hold, i.e., with the index finger nearly on top and the back the hand nearly in the plane of the desk. This is in contrast to the modern hold, where the hand is rotated about 45 degree clockwise. From the location of the slit, it looks like it would be very difficult to adjust the flange to accommodate the modern hold.

 

I have a couple of slightly unconventional holders (one fairly old, one new) which work best with the back of the hand level. Both have roughly triangular gripping areas with a flattening on top for the forefinger. (Bill Lilly made both of them and, if I recall correctly, he described them as variations on the 'natural grip' holder.)

[hzsimms]

Hey Everyone, I thought I'd jump in and ask for some feedback about some of the penholders I made. This one is solid purpleheart. It's wide because I made it for a person with large hands.

 

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Nice work! Seems like an excellent finish.

[PrestoTenebroso]

 

That is a nice looking holder. I do agree with dhnz about the size of the finial though - that much mass moving about on the end of the holder might not be a great idea.

 

Also, the flange need not be that long. The curved part that takes the nib needs to sit closer to the shaft so the tip of the nib would be in line with the center of the holder when inserted. In the picture of Musinkman's holder above, you can clearly see how the nib is supposed to line up.

 

This is an excellent start and I'm sure whoever uses that holder will enjoy writing with it.

 

Salman

Thanks for the feedback, folks. That's nice to hear. As far as the flanges go, they're a bit long, but I steepened the angle and tested them with a Nikko G nib so that when you put one in, the tip does, in fact pass through the centerline. If someone is using a shorty nib, and it can't make it to the centerline, it's no trouble to just make a new flange. Still, I'll have to keep an eye on appearances. It won't do to make objects that look clunkier than they are.

 

I tested that one and it feels fine to me, I didn't notice any cumbersomeness because of the finial. But as I said before, it won't do to make objects that look clunkier than they are.

[Mickey]

As long as we're talking about mass, I'll recount some of this morning's practice / warm-up. I began with a 20 year or so old holder from Bill Lilly loaded with a fairly obscure nib, somewhere in stiffness between a vintage Hunt 22 and Gillott 1068A rigid. The holder is a little long and of middling mass. Warm up completed, I did something I don't normally do. I took the Magnusson out of it's protective case for a test drive.

 

Although the longest holder in my collection (11.75"), the Magnusson is also about the lightest. It was loaded with a vintage Hunt 22 (a bit stiffer than the modern 22). Lo and behold, I had much better nib feel than I'd had earlier. The letter I was practicing (a fairly difficult one-stroke OP 'F' from Courtney) suddenly started looking like the exemplar. (Certainly not a match, but much closer.) Heartened by the experience, I decided to take a tour of all my lighter holders. I guess I shouldn't have been surprised, but all of them gave me superior nib control, even a couple I don't feel are well balanced.

 

My conclusion: you can't make mass disappear. Balance is crucial to avoid fatigue, but if you want to wrestle the last bit of performance from a flexible nib, go on a diet - lose the weight. The mass isolates you from the tip, no matter how beautifully balanced.*

 

This doesn't mean I'll abandon my heavier pens, - one of my least fatiguing holders is fairly heavy, but beautifully balanced, one of the most fatiguing is my second lightest - but when I need that last bit of performance from my nibs, I'm going to uncase the Magnusson or one of the other lightweight holders.

 

* This had been pointed out to me years ago by a special effects man tasked with 'flying' me on stage a la Peter Pan. I out massed him by about 2 to 1. He made it clear that my inertia was twice as much my responsibility as his. BTW, flight harnesses are not all that comfortable, especially if not custom made for the flier.

[thang1thang2]

 

My conclusion: you can't make mass disappear. Balance is crucial to avoid fatigue, but if you want to wrestle the last bit of performance from a flexible nib, go on a diet - lose the weight. The mass isolates you from the tip, no matter how beautifully balanced.*

 

This doesn't mean I'll abandon my heavier pens, - one of my least fatiguing holders is fairly heavy, but beautifully balanced, one of the most fatiguing is my second lightest - but when I need that last bit of performance from my nibs, I'm going to uncase the Magnusson or one of the other lightweight holders.

 

I wonder if it would be possible to make a very non fatiguing pen that was very light. Why are your heavier pens less fatiguing than your lighter ones?

[Mickey]

 

I wonder if it would be possible to make a very non fatiguing pen that was very light. Why are your heavier pens less fatiguing than your lighter ones?

I believe you misunderstood. One of my lighter pens, one which is not very well balanced, is fatiguing for extended use, whereas some of my heavier holders, ones which are very well balanced, are very easy to use for extended writing, but do not offer quite as much nib feedback (and thus control) as the lighter holder. I'm trying to explain real world trade-offs regarding optimum weight vs. optimum balance. Ideally, a light, well balanced pen of whatever length suits your eye and fancy is best, but at what point does weight added to achieve balance start affecting fine control? Mass added to reduce rotational inertia (i.e., to achieve balance) does so at the cost of increasing linear inertia. This affects both control and the quality of nib feedback.

 

With a lighter holder, I can feel how much the nib is bending before I see the result. I'm ahead of the curve, as it were, and not relying quite so much on ingrained habits, which I my case are not nearly as well engrained as with someone like Ken. Also, I can often feel a coming snag - the result of my less the perfect technique - before I get ink spatter. For things I wish to look good, that's no small help.

[dhnz]

… As far as the flanges go, they're a bit long, but I steepened the angle and tested them with a Nikko G nib so that when you put one in, the tip does, in fact pass through the centerline. If someone is using a shorty nib …

 

The Nikko G nib (and any of the manga G nibs, for that matter) are quite a bit bigger than the standard-size nibs (303, Principal, 22, 56, etc). They're also not nearly as flexible. So, unless the intended user is a big fan of the G nibs, I'd supply a flange for the smaller, more flexible nibs.

 

It may just be the way the picture was shot, but the slot for the flange also looks to be angled downwards, not upwards. Is that right?

 

Finally, the double swell design is unique, as far as I know, among oblique holders. I'm not sure that I'd find it that comfortable, but that's just me. I also prefer those holders that have a pronounced lip at the end (like the wooden Zanerian holders and some of those made by Michael Sull and Bill Lilly), as opposed to those that just roll over at the end (like yours and the Zanerian style that Del Tysdal was selling).

 

Dominic

[Mickey]

Finally, the double swell design is unique, as far as I know, among oblique holders. I'm not sure that I'd find it that comfortable, but that's just me. I also prefer those holders that have a pronounced lip at the end (like the wooden Zanerian holders and some of those made by Michael Sull and Bill Lilly), as opposed to those that just roll over at the end (like yours and the Zanerian style that Del Tysdal was selling).

 

Dominic

I can take or leave front lips (2 of the 3 Lilly holders I have don't have them, nor does my Buddy Blackwell), they are just not an issue for me, but, I agree with you regarding the double swelled holder. The quality of the turning and finish are quite good, but I don't believe I'd know how to grip it. (And my hands are anything but small. See post 8 and 18 in this thread.) The gripping zone needs to be either cylindrical (e.g., the Blackwell) or indented, like the various hour-glass variation, but tapering forward doesn't seem right. I fear it would promote a tight grip.

 

Perhaps Presto could explain what he had in mind.

Edited November 6, 2013 by Mickey

[caliken]

I've just received my new custom-made penholder from Brian Smith (Unique Obliques) and it's a real beauty. Everything is right about it - almost as though he'd built it to fit my hand. The girth and heft are perfect so I've no more excuses if my writing doesn't look good! I chose the appearance based on one he'd done earlier, and, if anything, it has exceeded all of my expectations. The photograph doesn't do it justice.

 

I wrote this with the Leonardt Principal nib which Brian had kindly fitted.

BTW the large shade in the Spencerian example, was written in two strokes.

 

Ken

 

 

Edited March 27, 2014 by Ken Fraser

[smk]

The beauty of this holder is matched only by that amazing 'B' in the Copperplate example.

 

I'm going to enjoy looking at both - thanks for brightening my day.

 

Salman

[MusinkMan]

I've just received my new custom-made penholder from Brian Smith (Unique Obliques) and it's a real beauty. Everything is right about it - almost as though he'd built it to fit my hand. The girth and heft are perfect so I've no more excuses if my writing doesn't look good! I chose the appearance based on one he'd done earlier, and, if anything, it has exceeded all of my expectations. The photograph doesn't do it justice.

 

I wrote this with the Leonardt Principal nib which Brian had kindly fitted.

 

BTW the large shade in the Spencerian example, was written in two strokes.

 

Ken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/newholder701.jpg

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/newholderenlarged700.jpg

 

Wow Ken, thanks so much for those words! I truly hope that you do enjoy it, and that it lives up to your expectations.

 

Somehow my holder looks a lot better when surrounded by your incredible calligraphy.

All of it is amazing, but as you know I'm currently trying to learn the Spencerian styles, so I can tell you that I am absolutely floored by your Spence.

I know that it's not your favorite style, but my goodness you can sure "throw down" with no problem! Really incredible! That majuscule "W" absolutely made me gasp!

 

And as for that Bickham/Universal Penman-styled copperplate...that's just insane! I can't begin to wrap my head around it...it's wayyyy beyond me. But I have to say, I sure love seeing you write like that. A rare treat to see that our Master Scribe can hang with the best of them.

 

Thank you again for the review of my custom pen, sir! May she serve you well!

 

Brian

[dhnz]

I finally found my Exclesior, though my wooden Zanerian is still temporarily mislaid. In the first picture, from top to bottom are: plastic Zanerian, 1869 no-name holder, Excelsior. Hzsimms, the Excelsior does not have a flattened end; that's just an optical illusion caused by the ink stains in the picture you posted. In the second picture, I put some measurements of the Excelsior. You can also see quite a few apparent Excelsiors in the Tate collection (eg, at http://www.zanerian.com/DonTate_files/don_tate_page6.html, http://www.zanerian.com/DonTate_files/don_tate_page27.html, and http://www.zanerian.com/DonTate_files/don_tate_page32.html). The holders at http://www.zanerian.com/DonTate_files/don_tate_page35.html and http://www.zanerian.com/DonTate_files/don_tate_page4.html appear to be the same 1869 model as mine.

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/q7nye.jpg

 

 

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/ojka3.jpg

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/3dmqo.jpg

Edited November 7, 2013 by dhnz

[MusinkMan]

 

 

 

 

http://www.freeimagehosting.net/newuploads/3dmqo.jpg

 

dhnz, did I understand you correctly, that this holder is made of plastic?

[MusinkMan]

E-bony and I-vory

Live together in perfect

Har-mo-ny.......

 

[dhnz]

 

dhnz, did I understand you correctly, that this holder is made of plastic?

 

Yes, it is.