Show Us Your Oblique Penholders!

[Scribe_Not]

Brian,

You really didn't think Mikimoto-Boy would let this go by without noticing?

That staff with the synthetic Mother of Pearl is awesome!!!

[MusinkMan]

Brian,

You really didn't think Mikimoto-Boy would let this go by without noticing?

That staff with the synthetic Mother of Pearl is awesome!!!

Hahahaha...thank you Doug! Thought you were out of pocket on the bike for a few more days!

Check your email!

--Brian--

[MusinkMan]

 

Here are a few custom orders I finished up over the weekend.

 

This one was a custom order for my calligraphy teacher. His specs...he likes purple and asked for a purpleheart handle. I thought it looked cool. He's gonna make this baby rock 'n roll, I can tell ya!

 

This is a matched set...a straight holder and an oblique holder. A bit of a different look, yes? LOL!

No, it's not white paint, they are made from American holly which is white. I thought they were cool.

 

This is a custom order...Gabon Ebony wood and mother-of-pearl. This sucker looked awesome! My wife even wanted it, and she doesn't even write with anything except a ballpoint pen! LOL

 

 

These are amazing … your wife is right, this ebony-mother-of-pearl combination is so classy!

 

Stefanie

 

Thank you Stefanie!!! I appreciate you saying that!

[MusinkMan]

 

Thanks Brian, I appreciate it. These are incredible! I'm especially intrigued by the holly set. How does that stuff turn? I've never worked with it. Looks great though!

 

Howard

Howard, check your email if you read this.

--Brian

[zemof]

Awesome work from the Lion! Can‘t wait for mine to arrive in the mail~!

[MusinkMan]

 

Awesome work from the Lion! Can‘t wait for mine to arrive in the mail~!

 

They are on the way to you! I'll refrain from posting photos of them, so that you can show them off on here when they arrive!

I wish international mail would be faster...will likely take about 2 weeks or longer. It's enough to make us go mad! hahaha

[MusinkMan]

Here is a custom order that I just finished for Mr. Bill Kemp (president of Iampeth). He wanted a short handle, gave me the grip size he likes, and off I went with the other choices. The handle is premium tiger-striped maple 5A, the grip is Honduran Rosewood Burl, and the foot is Ebony. The finial endcap tip is also ebony. I put some beautiful pearl stripes...excellent pearl stock that is German made. All in all, a really nice pen, looks about a million percent better in person. I shipped it today, I hope that he likes it.

 

 

 

[hzsimms]

Here is a custom order that I just finished for Mr. Bill Kemp (president of Iampeth). He wanted a short handle, gave me the grip size he likes, and off I went with the other choices. The handle is premium tiger-striped maple 5A, the grip is Honduran Rosewood Burl, and the foot is Ebony. The finial endcap tip is also ebony. I put some beautiful pearl stripes...excellent pearl stock that is German made. All in all, a really nice pen, looks about a million percent better in person. I shipped it today, I hope that he likes it.

 

 

 

Brian,

 

That's a drop dead gorgeous pen! Mr. Kemp will love it, I'm sure. Told you that you were going to be famous one day! The Magnusson of our generation!

 

Howard

[Columba Livia]

There is a very interesting article, Written by Fred Heath (of Concord, New Hampshire) for the Business Educator (November 1912 issue), here:

https://archive.org/stream/businesseducator18zane#page/n141/mode/1up

It discusses the effect that the angle of the brass nib holding flange has on shades and illustrates it with ornamental penmanship from the same nib in different holders (note how the Excelsior holder (number 4), with a very acute slant of the flange, produces some of the best shaped shades, number 9 is also excellent). The link above will let you view the article in higher-res & here is the article:

http://i.imgur.com/JVzHadS.jpg

I've noted that peerless oblique holder seems to have a good angle on the brass flange and looks like it might be close to the Excelsior. Compare the angle of its flange:

http://www.paperinkarts.com/peerls.html

The turn of the century holder also seems to have a good angle, tho' it might stick out a bit far:

http://www.paperinkarts.com/58cent.html

 

http://i.imgur.com/4lZARw5.jpg

Edited October 26, 2013 by Columba Livia

[Mickey]

There is a very interesting article, Written by Fred Heath (of Concord, New Hampshire) for the Business Educator (November 1912 issue), here:

 

https://archive.org/stream/businesseducator18zane#page/n141/mode/1up

 

It discusses the effect that the angle of the brass nib holding flange has on shades and illustrates it with ornamental penmanship from the same nib in different holders (note how the Excelsior holder (number 4), with a very acute slant of the flange, produces some of the best shaped shades, number 9 is also excellent). The link above will let you view the article in higher-res & here is the article:

 

I've noted that peerless oblique holder seems to have a good angle on the brass flange and looks like it might be close to the Excelsior. Compare the angle of its flange:

 

http://www.paperinkarts.com/peerls.html

 

The turn of the century holder also seems to have a good angle, tho' it might stick out a bit far:

 

http://www.paperinkarts.com/58cent.html

 

http://i.imgur.com/4lZARw5.jpg

As usual from you, very interesting stuff... I've been experimenting a bit with flange geometry and have found flanges that are between 42-45 degrees and which fit close to the shaft work best. One would think 38 degrees (52 = 90 - 38) should be ideal, but I find such flanges not quite oblique enough to be comfortable and intuitive to use. 2D versus 3D thinking, maybe?

[hzsimms]

There is a very interesting article, Written by Fred Heath (of Concord, New Hampshire) for the Business Educator (November 1912 issue), here:

 

https://archive.org/stream/businesseducator18zane#page/n141/mode/1up

 

It discusses the effect that the angle of the brass nib holding flange has on shades and illustrates it with ornamental penmanship from the same nib in different holders (note how the Excelsior holder (number 4), with a very acute slant of the flange, produces some of the best shaped shades, number 9 is also excellent). The link above will let you view the article in higher-res & here is the article:

 

 

Very interesting article, indeed. Thank you for posting it.

 

... flanges that are between 42-45 degrees and which fit close to the shaft work best.

 

As a general principle, and certainly from an aesthetic point of view, I tend to agree. However, from a penmaker's perspective, the "ideal angle" is somewhat elusive. As the oblique flange has to bring the point of the nib back into alignment with the center of the shaft, the severity of the angle increases along with the circumference of the foot of the holder. The narrower the foot, the closer to the shaft the flange can fit and still properly align the nib. As the foot gets larger, though, the flange angle has to increase to compensate. I have larger hands and tend to, usually, use a holder with a larger grip, therefore one with more flange angle.

[Mickey]

HZSIMMS,

 

There are plenty of ways of getting around the problem of grip diameter, the most obvious being a bevel cut inset on the end of the foot. Also, the flange need not exit the slit at right angles to the shaft (none of my flanges do); this allows one to advance or retard the position of the clamping section and thus the point. Both of these approaches make the angle somewhat independent of foot diameter. Having big hands does not force one to accept a more acute angle.

 

BTW, I doubt your hands are any larger than mine. I wear an XXL golf glove, and I can span an 11th and play walking 10ths with my left hand. (That's piano talk, folks, for big hands.) My shoe size is 15.

[Stompie]

 

It discusses the effect that the angle of the brass nib holding flange has on shades and illustrates it with ornamental penmanship from the same nib in different holders (note how the Excelsior holder (number 4), with a very acute slant of the flange, produces some of the best shaped shades, number 9 is also excellent). The link above will let you view the article in higher-res & here is the article:

 

http://i.imgur.com/JVzHadS.jpg

 

 

 

I like his point on the angle of the nib etc - something I struggle with as I find most of them have to shallow an angle for me and I have to twist and bend the flange all sorts of crazy ways to suit my writing style more. Does anyone else have to do this as it seems almost impossible to have the nib at the same angle of the writing angle unless you turn the paper 90 degrees to the left!

 

B and H - can you make a flange more angled?

 

 

[thang1thang2]

BTW, I doubt your hands are any larger than mine. I wear an XXL golf glove, and I can span an 11th and play walking 10ths with my left hand. (That's piano talk, folks, for big hands.) My shoe size is 15.

I was curious about the piano talk, so I found this

[hzsimms]

HZSIMMS,

 

There are plenty of ways of getting around the problem of grip diameter, the most obvious being a bevel cut inset on the end of the foot.

 

True, to a point. The larger the foot, the longer the beveled portion has to be. It works precisely as you have indicated, but, in the extreme, becomes a bit ungainly. I have experimented with angling the foot and actually beveling the end cut itself. It works (at least for me) but is somewhat unusual to look at.

 

HZSIMMS,

 

Also, the flange need not exit the slit at right angles to the shaft (none of my flanges do); this allows one to advance or retard the position of the clamping section and thus the point.

 

Agreed. I have seen quite a few put together in that fashion but, personally, have never built one that way. However, I do trim the bottoms of the flanges so as to give that appearance. It also makes for more room for the thumb (thanks Brian!)

 

Mickey, on 26 Oct 2013 - 23:16, said:

HZSIMMS,

 

BTW, I doubt your hands are any larger than mine. I wear an XXL golf glove, and I can span an 11th and play walking 10ths with my left hand. (That's piano talk, folks, for big hands.) My shoe size is 15.

 

XL golf glove, size 13 shoe and I can palm a basketball if it has stickum on it!

Edited October 28, 2013 by hzsimms

[hzsimms]

 

I like his point on the angle of the nib etc - something I struggle with as I find most of them have to shallow an angle for me and I have to twist and bend the flange all sorts of crazy ways to suit my writing style more. Does anyone else have to do this as it seems almost impossible to have the nib at the same angle of the writing angle unless you turn the paper 90 degrees to the left!

 

B and H - can you make a flange more angled?

 

 

 

Absolutely, the difficulty is that it has to fit the person holding the pen. A sort of "pre-angled" flange would work if the pen maker and the writer could get together and "fit" it, for lack of a more technical term. I too spend a lot of time bending and twisting flanges. What I have done, however, with a tip of the proverbial cap to PIA, is to actually angle the flange slot when I cut it. I've only done that on the pens that have an angled cut and epoxy mounted flange, although I suppose it could be done with a Zanerian style mount. I'd be nervous drilling an angled hole in the end of the shaft though!

 

The problem with flanges, at least as I see it, is that there just isn't a great deal of room for innovation there. Absent something truly creative to fill a particular need, like the leftie flange Brian made for Teri (which was a masterpiece, I must say), in the final analysis the thing has to bring the point of the nib back to the center of the shaft while maintaining an oblique angle. I've seen flanges that exit the top of the pen shaft, the bottom of the pen shaft and both sides, but ultimately they get the nib back to the same point. I'm afraid flange bending is in the cards for a while to come!

[Mickey]

I was curious about the piano talk, so I found this

My hands are somewhat larger, slightly over a 25cm span, but I suspect with slightly shorter fingers. My hand are just plain big. I can span the 11th with my fingers still over the keys and strike the 12th without assistance. I've met a few people with broader spans, but not too many, though one fellow I knew in school could play 12ths easily, about as easily as I can 9ths. Naturally, he wanted to be a guitarist - didn't care for the piano.

 

Stompie:

I'm sure either gentleman could give you a wide range of angles, especially with a Zanerian style flange, where the pen angle is governed mostly by the angle of the key that slides into the end of the holder. It's simply a matter of laying out the flange properly before making the last fold and cut.

 

Part of the difficulty you're experiencing may relate to grip. Make sure your hand is rotated counter clockwise enough for you to see 3 (or 4) knuckles when you grip the holder and that the shaft is not pointing very far outside your right shoulder. Grip a normal pen and watch where the tip direction drifts as you rotate your hand from palm parallel to the table to right angles to the table. See what I mean? You might also notice that you don't need to turn in or tilt back the nib as much with the hand closer to parallel with the desk. The shaft angle is naturally lower.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Mickey

[MusinkMan]

There is a very interesting article, Written by Fred Heath (of Concord, New Hampshire) for the Business Educator (November 1912 issue), here:

 

https://archive.org/stream/businesseducator18zane#page/n141/mode/1up

 

It discusses the effect that the angle of the brass nib holding flange has on shades and illustrates it with ornamental penmanship from the same nib in different holders (note how the Excelsior holder (number 4), with a very acute slant of the flange, produces some of the best shaped shades, number 9 is also excellent). The link above will let you view the article in higher-res & here is the article:

 

 

 

I've noted that peerless oblique holder seems to have a good angle on the brass flange and looks like it might be close to the Excelsior. Compare the angle of its flange:

 

http://www.paperinkarts.com/peerls.html

 

The turn of the century holder also seems to have a good angle, tho' it might stick out a bit far:

 

http://www.paperinkarts.com/58cent.html

 

http://i.imgur.com/4lZARw5.jpg

 

Well heck, that guy didn't even bother to rate my holders! hahahaha Somebody please exhume him and have him give me somethin'!!!

 

On the flange angles as shown on the Century and the Peerless above...I can tell ya that with a Zanerian-mounted flange, you can swap those things out and monkey around with them as much as you want. Not so with the pin 'n epoxy ones...with those you are pretty much "stuck" with what's there. I would venture to say that you could easily slip out the Peerless flange and slip it right into the Century without much trouble (of course the Century grip is noticeably thicker than the Peerless, but I imagine the Peerless flange would still install...just would be a little tight up next to the grip/foot if all. Note also that the foot of the Century has been ground to accomodate the flange while still giving it this "slack" to bend/adjust it. That's good planning, in my book!

 

Of these two flanges, I would say that the Century will give you the ability to set your flange "angle-to-page" as is comfortable for you. The "extra" brass that sticks out between the handle and the flange "bend" gives you the ability to do a good bit of "shaping and angling" the flange (and nib) to suit yourself. I think many refer to this as angle of the nib in relation to the page or tabletop, as the "rake angle" (on this site), but elsewhere no one seems to know what I'm talking about when I mention "rake angle". LOL! Anyway, the point is that the Century flange as shown will allow much easier re-shaping of the flange to fine-tune it to your liking. (and you should probably always bend that flange a bit forward so that your nib is not parallel to your handle...it should thrust out forward a bit. Hey, it's a Madarasz tip, so you'll have to take it up with ol' Louis if you disagree. hahaha

 

That's just my 2-bits worth...I'm not by any means an accomplished oblique writier...but I have made one or two of these contraptions by now.

Edited October 28, 2013 by MusinkMan

[MusinkMan]

Now here are a couple of new ones that I just completed.

 

This one is 5A grade tigerstripe maple handle with Amboyna burl grip, and a nice red stripe of hi-end pearly stuff from Germany. You have to see the tiger maple in person to believe it. I was lucky to acquire a little of it.

 

 

 

This one is really nice too...Pale Moon Ebony (rare white ebony with black grain figuring...like wispy black clouds in front of the pale yellow moon). Look closely and you might even see a witch ride by on her broomstick! hahaha Sppppooooky stuff. Definitely appropriate for Halloween, me thinks!

 

 

 

I don't show the custom orders if they are to people on this site...preferring to let them show them if they want to. But I'll tell ya this...

There is a custom order I just finished for Estefa that is stunning.

And there is yet another custom order on it's way to Caliken...that one is also something extremely cool!

Edited October 28, 2013 by MusinkMan

[Mickey]

On the flange angles as shown on the Century and the Peerless above...I can tell ya that with a Zanerian-mounted flange, you can swap those things out and monkey around with them as much as you want. Not so with the pin 'n epoxy ones...with those you are pretty much "stuck" with what's there. I would venture to say that you could easily slip out the Peerless flange and slip it right into the Century without much trouble (of course the Century grip is noticeably thicker than the Peerless, but I imagine the Peerless flange would still install...just would be a little tight up next to the grip/foot if all. Note also that the foot of the Century has been ground to accomodate the flange while still giving it this "slack" to bend/adjust it. That's good planning, in my book!

 

Of these two flanges, I would say that the Century will give you the ability to set your flange "angle-to-page" as is comfortable for you. The "extra" brass that sticks out between the handle and the flange "bend" gives you the ability to do a good bit of "shaping and angling" the flange (and nib) to suit yourself. I think many refer to this as angle of the nib in relation to the page or tabletop, as the "rake angle" (on this site), but elsewhere no one seems to know what I'm talking about when I mention "rake angle". LOL! Anyway, the point is that the Century flange as shown will allow much easier re-shaping of the flange to fine-tune it to your liking. (and you should probably always bend that flange a bit forward so that your nib is not parallel to your handle...it should thrust out forward a bit. Hey, it's a Madarasz tip, so you'll have to take it up with ol' Louis if you disagree. hahaha

 

I'm probably the one guilty of putting 'rake angle' in the FPN vocabulary, borrowing the term from phonograph stylus terminology, which itself was borrowed from the machinist lexicon (via the cutter head used to create phonograph masters). I used it to describe the shaft angle of FPs, so applying the same term to both holders and flanges seemed logical, even if the two rakes are typically set differently. (Technically, rake is the angle, measured from vertical, at which the cutter contacts the material being cut. The 'standard' for phonograph records was +15 degree, which needed to be considered in the geometry of the playback stylus, the armature to which the stylus was attached, tone arm mounting, etc.)

 

What Dr. Vitolo refers to as inward cant (a good choice of terms, imo) is an accommodation for the modern grip. Those of us who hold the pens with the palm nearly parallel to the page need less of this.

 

I propose we use the term 'turn in' (borrowing from my days at the barre*) to describe the angle between shaft and nib (in the plane of the page). This is set mostly by the flange maker. One should note, however, that the amount of turn in is decreased somewhat by both canting the nib inward and tilting the point upward (to reduce angle of attack).

 

 

* I know the thought of me dancing would horrify most who know me, but there have been times in my life when I took 'class' every morning. Out of respect to real dancers, I've always referred to what I did as moving under the direction of choreographers, never as dancing.