Show Us Your Oblique Penholders!

[MusinkMan]

Those little Esterbrook nibs are absolutely wonderful!

 

Here's a pen I just finished up. It was inspired by one of Brian's. It has a slightly larger diameter than most of my pens. I'm hoping that the larger grip will help me produce straighter lines. Then again, if it was the equipment, don't you reckon someone would have figured that out way before me? Oh well, I can dream, can't I? LOL!

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/IMG_2769_zps01302af8.jpg

 

Nice one Howard! Ebony and Afzelia? Or is it Honduran RW? Very pretty combo. Beautiful work, brother!

Edited September 25, 2013 by MusinkMan

[mvarela]

A bit (or two) off-topic... has anyone tried out these oblique rollerballs?

 

http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/yoropen-bp-exec.jpg

 

They seem to be meant to be used with the point downwards, but this got me thinking... wouldn't it be great if there was a fountain pen with this shape and a fine flex nib (pilot FA, maybe, or even vintage flex nibs?).

Would it be even possible to fit a feed an nib in such a configuration, provided one could make the barrel?

Edited September 26, 2013 by mvarela

[MusinkMan]

Dang! Those are cool as hell, Martin. I've never seen anything like that. Is this a Finnish thing, or is it universally available?

[Stompie]

Yoropen - but as far as I can track, they are only in ballpoint pens and it is not so much an oblique as that shape is where you rest your finger on, your index finger.

Edited September 26, 2013 by Stompie

[MusinkMan]

I see...well, I'd still like to try one out just to putz around with. I'd probably hate it, but I'd still give it a try. I might get some duct tape and a Leonardt Principal just to see what would happen. hahaha

[Estefa]

I like these 3 very much! This white-grey material looks a little like marble but it is something different I guess. Very fancy!

 

Stefanie

[mvarela]

Yoropen - but as far as I can track, they are only in ballpoint pens and it is not so much an oblique as that shape is where you rest your finger on, your index finger.

 

Yoropen indeed. I noticed the position thing as well... but it does look like it could be used as an oblique (provided it actually can write at such a low angle). In any case, my idea would be to have an "oblique (flex) fountain pen", as it were.

 

I actually find it easier to write with an oblique holder than with a normal FP, when doing Spencerian-like stuff. It would also allow for "proper" flexy writing - as opposed to the, (to me ugly) over-shaded vertical copperplate bastardization one usually sees done with flex FPs. Anyway, I'm pretty much worthless at building stuff, but I'm curious as to whether it could somehow be done.

Edited September 26, 2013 by mvarela

[Estefa]

Sorry about my last post - it does not make sense with the Yoropens. I meant these of course:

 

 

 

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1636_zps7b9723f3.jpg

 

 

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/IMG_2769_zps01302af8.jpg

 

It does not make sense with the Yoropens - they look strange! (And interesting)

 

Stefanie

[hzsimms]

I meant these of course:

 

It does not make sense with the Yoropens - they look strange! (And interesting)

 

Stefanie

 

 

Thanks Stefanie, I appreciate it! The white and grey stuff is acrylic.

 

Howard

[hzsimms]

"Anyway, I'm pretty much worthless at building stuff, but I'm curious as to whether it could somehow be done."

 

Interesting concept. Do you have in mind a dip pen or a true, self-filling fountain pen?

Edited September 26, 2013 by hzsimms

[mvarela]

"Anyway, I'm pretty much worthless at building stuff, but I'm curious as to whether it could somehow be done."

 

Interesting concept. Do you have in mind a dip pen or a true, self-filling fountain pen?

I was thinking of an actual fountain pen (which you could carry with you and would allow you to write without the dipping-related paraphernalia). A quick hack would be to have a handle that holds the FP at the right angle, but it would surely be poorly balanced. But a fountain pen with a similar shape to those Yoropens would be interesting, I believe.

[Mickey]

A bit (or two) off-topic... has anyone tried out these oblique rollerballs?

 

http://www.cultpens.com/acatalog/yoropen-bp-exec.jpg

 

They seem to be meant to be used with the point downwards, but this got me thinking... wouldn't it be great if there was a fountain pen with this shape and a fine flex nib (pilot FA, maybe, or even vintage flex nibs?).

Would it be even possible to fit a feed an nib in such a configuration, provided one could make the barrel?

You'd be stuck with whatever rake angle the manufacturer builds into the pen, but the same is pretty much true for the Blackwell and PIA flanges. Turn-in could be adjusted by rotating the feed (spline?) I think the section would have to be metal or maybe carbon fiber (something strong). I'd certainly want one.

[mvarela]

You'd be stuck with whatever rake angle the manufacturer builds into the pen, but the same is pretty much true for the Blackwell and PIA flanges. Turn-in could be adjusted by rotating the feed (spline?) I think the section would have to be metal or maybe carbon fiber (something strong). I'd certainly want one.

Yes, most likely it would be limited wrt angles, but then again, it'd be better than a normal FP for this type of stuff, I think.

 

As for the PIA holder, after some talking with Joe Vitolo, I finally tried to adjust the rake angle, and it does make writing a bit easier. I had tried before, but apparently not forcefully enough.

[Mickey]

 

As for the PIA holder, after some talking with Joe Vitolo, I finally tried to adjust the rake angle, and it does make writing a bit easier. I had tried before, but apparently not forcefully enough.

I adjusted mine too, but it's a pain and the amount of force necessary is a little scary.

[mvarela]

I adjusted mine too, but it's a pain and the amount of force necessary is a little scary.

Yes, that was my main concern. I managed not to break the foot, so I'm happy

[hzsimms]

I was thinking of an actual fountain pen (which you could carry with you and would allow you to write without the dipping-related paraphernalia). A quick hack would be to have a handle that holds the FP at the right angle, but it would surely be poorly balanced. But a fountain pen with a similar shape to those Yoropens would be interesting, I believe.

 

It really is an interesting idea. Mickey is right in that you'd be stuck with the manufacturer's rake angle. Load and feed issues would dictate a fixed angle. The assumption is that the ink loads from the barrel. Getting it to the feed in an oblique design would require either an ink channel that ran through the section to the feed or that the section itself act, in part, as a reservoir of sorts. I don't think you can actually have an oblique feed. Too many angles for the ink to flow properly and that would be the death knell for a really flexible nib. Either way, neither would lend itself well to an adjustable rake. That having been said, if you kept the offset somewhat minimal, it's doable. Now, capping the thing would be a challenge!

 

In the alternative, while it's not an oblique, I have taken some Noodler's pens and modified flexible dip pen nibs to use in them. They work pretty well, but you have to clean them out and dry them really well after each use or you get rust issues. I like the Noodler's pens for that purpose because a) they're cheap and they are designed to be easily disassembled. Or, you could just buy an Ackerman pump pen and avoid the hassle!

 

Howard

[dhnz]

Just to offer a contrary view, I don't really see the point of an oblique fountain pen. You'd be limiting yourself with respect to inks and nibs, it would be heavy and the balance would probably be awful compared to a dip pen holder, and the resultant writing wouldn't be as good.

Edited September 27, 2013 by dhnz

[Mickey]

Just to offer a contrary view, I don't really see the point of an oblique fountain pen. You'd be limiting yourself with respect to inks and nibs, it would be heavy and the balance would probably be awful compared to a dip pen holder, and the resultant writing wouldn't be as good.

Who said it needs to be as good, however you wish to define good? If the product is defined not as a replacement for a holder, but as a portable alternative with well understood limitations, it might be quite desirable. It would be a pen for lightly shaded Spencerian while allowing more or less conventional paper positioning. The biggest benefit would be the minimal mental overhead shifting between it and a holder.

 

If made from a suitable material, say a carbon fiber for the body, there is no reason why it should be especially heavy or unbalanced. In fact, if the bulk of the mass were kept close to the grip, there is no reason why it should be any more unwieldy than a Buddy Blackwell holder, with its brass grip. Final balance could be fine tuned through placement of the c/c.

[dhnz]

Each to their own. I want to spend my time practising with the best equipment I can, and I just don't see an oblique fountain pen as being better than a normal oblique holder, so I wouldn't be using one. As for weight, a fountain pen has to have a feed, a reservoir, and a filling mechanism, all of which contribute to the weight and all of which a dip pen doesn't have. I could be wrong; maybe someone could design and produce a lightweight pen with superb balance, but I still don't see the point. But it's just my opinion.

 

Oh, I'm not sure what the mental overhead is that you're talking about – I've never had any problem shifting between a fountain pen, a dip pen, a ball point, a felt pen, and even a pencil. If that's the biggest benefit of an obliquue fountain pen, it certainly isn't big enough for me!

Edited September 27, 2013 by dhnz

[mvarela]

 

It really is an interesting idea. Mickey is right in that you'd be stuck with the manufacturer's rake angle. Load and feed issues would dictate a fixed angle. The assumption is that the ink loads from the barrel. Getting it to the feed in an oblique design would require either an ink channel that ran through the section to the feed or that the section itself act, in part, as a reservoir of sorts. I don't think you can actually have an oblique feed. Too many angles for the ink to flow properly and that would be the death knell for a really flexible nib. Either way, neither would lend itself well to an adjustable rake. That having been said, if you kept the offset somewhat minimal, it's doable. Now, capping the thing would be a challenge!

 

In the alternative, while it's not an oblique, I have taken some Noodler's pens and modified flexible dip pen nibs to use in them. They work pretty well, but you have to clean them out and dry them really well after each use or you get rust issues. I like the Noodler's pens for that purpose because a) they're cheap and they are designed to be easily disassembled. Or, you could just buy an Ackerman pump pen and avoid the hassle!

 

Howard

What you describe is pretty much what I had thought about. I think that with FP nibs the rake angle is not such a big issue, as the nibs are not so sharp as dip pens.

I've heard about the Ackerman pens, but not always good things... and writing Spencerian with a straight holder is unnecessarily harder than using an oblique.