Show Us Your Oblique Penholders!

[Mickey]

 

Here, I believe, was the market that Magnusson and his ilk made their ornamental holders for, and I don't expect that they anticipated anyone in that tribe would be breaking them in half. I'm certain that you know from personal experience how much attention a long tail holder attracts from people when you pull it out and start writing. That sort of adoration was at the heart of the excess of the gilded age and the effect would, at least to me, seem to be somewhat lost by the use of a broken stick.

 

After all, it's not like chasing the mystical sound of a Stradivarius. It's a pen holder.

 

Howard

The only problem with the theory is that the Magnussons are mostly post Gilded Age, made between 1930 and 1950. And the Gilded Age folks (robber baronesses and such) mostly had social secretaries and the like to handle anything other than the most personal correspondence, which wouldn't have been ornamental.

 

Did you know that the PIA holder (the deluxe model) is made by a violin bow maker?

[Scribe_Not]

I finally get to show off my oblique! I say "finally" because I'm a hook-over lefty who has never been able to use an oblique pen before (you can see why in the photos that I posted earlier in this thread). But MusinkMan rose to the challenge of making me a custom oblique that lines up the nib where it should be, compensating for my contortion! I've never been able to flex before, and now I can fulfill my dream of learning Spencerian thanks to him! I get to be the proud owner of an oblique, too! We've been calling it the FrankenPen. I also call it the Freaky Obliquey and The Hammerhead (the nib is almost perpindicular to the shaft, is why!)

 

 

Congrats, that's awesome! Musinkman pulled off another one! That guy is amazing!

 

(Of course, this opinion is coming from a guy that's still trying to figure out that "light in the refrigerator thing.")

[Scribe_Not]

Couple of new holders that I've been working on. They have a different type of cut for the flange. I like the angled cut but also the bevel on the end so I tried to incorporate the two into one design. Let me know what you think.

 

This one is snakewood and something I'm not sure of. More from the turner grab bag of assorted wood. I made this one particularly for little nibs like the Gillott 303 and the Esterbrook 355 and 356.

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/IMG_2694_zps688393c7.jpg

 

This one is pambil palm and zebra wood with simulated ivory accent rings. It was inspired by a Lilly pen I saw on Zanerian.com. I really like this one, kind of has a formal look to it.

 

 

 

Thanks for looking,

Howard

Nice! Howard, that Snakewood is way cool!

[hzsimms]

 

 

 

Howard, we shall talk when I get back early in November. There are 2 holders you have done that really interest me! gonna wreck the plans for my next holiday!!!!

 

Have a wonderful time Stompie and I look forward to hearing from you.

 

Howard

[Scribe_Not]

"...them fancy little circle thingy's you put on..."

 

 

 

Stompie... that's friggin' priceless!!!

[hzsimms]

Stompie... that's friggin' priceless!!!

It really is, isnt' it?! You know he buys those fancy little circle thingy's by the gross, I think!

[hzsimms]

The only problem with the theory is that the Magnussons are mostly post Gilded Age, made between 1930 and 1950. And the Gilded Age folks (robber baronesses and such) mostly had social secretaries and the like to handle anything other than the most personal correspondence, which wouldn't have been ornamental.

 

Did you know that the PIA holder (the deluxe model) is made by a violin bow maker?

While I'm certain that many of the gilded age well heeled did, in fact, have personal secretaries, many did not. As an aside, since you mention robber barons, interestingly enough neither Jay Gould (arguably the pinnacle of all things robber baron) nor J.P. Morgan employed the services of a secretary (I'm not terribly surprised in Gould's case as it is probably difficult to maintain a staff when you spend the great majority of your time running from either the law, angry shareholders or former business partners that you just bankrupted. Other than that, he seems like a perfectly delightful fellow). Some of their personal correspondence survives and I have to say that Gould, at least, did not scribble.

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/Gould2_zps423e7caf.jpg

 

Likewise, he seemed somewhat practiced in his signature (his is bottom left):

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/Gould_Jay_Fantastic_Erie_document_signed_zpsc186f8f9.jpg

 

My point in all of this being, it is my belief that ornamentation itself was central to the ethos of the era, which is one of the reasons that I'm convinced that ornamental pens were designed to be ornamental pens, not pens later to be broken.

 

I have to admit that I am, frankly, stunned that Magnusson was selling oblique penholders post WW2. That is absolutely fascinating as I have to wonder who the market was at that point. Most of the Zanerian college type schools had folded by then, I would assume, and the fountain pen would have been making way for the ballpoint. Interesting factoid. Instructively, as to this particular debate, however, is this advertisement from the December 1928 edition of Business Educator Magazine:

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/MagObAd_zpsa16b8c9e.jpg

 

There are several things of particular note to me in this ad, the first being that portion of the copy that stresses the virtues of the "inlaid holder with the ivory knob". It goes on to point out that not only does the ivory knob enhance the holder's "beauty", it seems to contribute to its "usefulness". Further, there are multiple versions of the holder offered for sale, short and long, plain and inlaid. It seems to me that if the purpose of an ornate holder were simply to break it once a satisfactory level of achievement had been reached, one certainly wouldn't pay the extra .65 cents for inlay and an ivory knob. I get the distinct impression that Oscar Magnusson (and apparently two generations of other Magnussons) made these pens to be beautiful. It's a debate that we will most assuredly not settle with any finality as there is precious little evidence upon which to base a verdict. Mickey, your theory is elegant and I agree in part (that part that applies to professional penmen), but I just cannot wrap my head around the "make 'em to break 'em" aspect of it.

 

Howard

[hzsimms]

Nice! Howard, that Snakewood is way cool!

 

Thanks, I appreciate it. It really is neat stuff, although I've read it's prone to cracking. Fortunately, I haven't had that issue. Yet!

 

Howard

[hzsimms]

 

 

Did you know that the PIA holder (the deluxe model) is made by a violin bow maker?

 

I most assuredly did not. Very interesting detail. I'm quite fond of the PIA holder as it's the only oblique I've used that will take a crow quill. I've never used a Blackwell, but it seems that it might as well. My only complaint with the PIA is the lack of flexibility in the flange. While it is an absolute marvel of engineering, it is essentially unbendable. I prefer a bit more rake than comes manufactured into the PIA and, short of outright assault with a hydraulic jack, the angle it comes with is the angle it stays with.

 

Howard

[Mickey]

 

I most assuredly did not. Very interesting detail. I'm quite fond of the PIA holder as it's the only oblique I've used that will take a crow quill. I've never used a Blackwell, but it seems that it might as well. My only complaint with the PIA is the lack of flexibility in the flange. While it is an absolute marvel of engineering, it is essentially unbendable. I prefer a bit more rake than comes manufactured into the PIA and, short of outright assault with a hydraulic jack, the angle it comes with is the angle it stays with.

 

Howard

I have a Blackwell and I don't think it will. Sorry no crow quills on hand to test. It barely manages mapping points.

[Mickey]

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/Gould_Jay_Fantastic_Erie_document_signed_zpsc186f8f9.jpg

 

Secretary, amanuensis, potato, potato. Both had clerks, who would have been professional penman (by today's standards). Notice the writing inside the document appears to be scribe work done with a flexible nib, quite possibly in an oblique holder, likewise the signature of the first witness (who may have been the scribe) It's interesting to look at the Gould writing sample and signature, both of which appear to have been done with a straight holder and a relative stiff not very sharp point, something like an Esterbrook 14 (Bank nib).

 

I suspect oblique holders never had much market outside professional scribes of various sorts (clerks, social secretaries, etc.)

 

Likewise, I'm surprised that 'Business Schools' survived WWII, but there were still a few of the operating in the early '50. Bill Lilly's Zanerian certificate is dated 1952.

 

Lest you get the wrong impression. There are Magnusson holders from much earlier than 1930. (Albert Magnusson was making holders before WWI, as well as repairing pipe organs and billiard tables. I believe there are Magnusson holders going back into the 1880s, but somewhere I got the impression that the largest number were made from 1930 to 1950. I could easily be wrong, in which case my Magnusson may be older and more valuable than I thought.)

[hzsimms]

Here's the latest from the workshop. This one was particularly enjoyable to make because my son, who usually doesn't give much of a whit about these things, became interested in this one when he saw how narrow the tail was becoming and actually helped me finish it.

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/c801bf83-340a-4376-9dab-1f986ff9f110_zpsc39b08d8.jpg

 

The grip is big leaf maple burl and the tail is birdseye maple. The tail is 3/32 in diameter for about half its length and it's slightly over 12 inches long from end to end. It's incredibly light and feels really good to write with. Having turned one to this small of a diameter, however, I don't know that I'm in a real hurry to do it again. It's very time consuming and labor intensive and, in many respects, as my grandmother used to say, "not enough juice for the squeeze" (that's a Southern thing, for all of you folks from elsewhere!). The biggest drawback is the sense of fragility. It is, quite literally, matchstick thin and your instincts are that it's going to break if you breath on it wrong. So far so good, though!

 

Howard

[smk]

That holder is just beautiful, everything works beautifully and the thin shaft is just icing on the cake. The flange looks like it is sticking out a bit too much but it could be the angle of the pic. Its a lovely holder regardless.

 

Did you use some kind of a stabilizer (like this Steady Rest) while turning the shaft?

 

Salman

[MusinkMan]

Howard, that is most excellent work! Absolutely breathtaking, and I very we'll know the hours of work (and stress) that go into making something of this caliber. Beautiful job indeed!

[Scribe_Not]

Holy Moly Howard... that's one good looking piece!

 

If you listen real close... I bet you can hear Ralphie's Mom saying, "You'll put your eye out with that thing!"

[hzsimms]

That holder is just beautiful, everything works beautifully and the thin shaft is just icing on the cake. The flange looks like it is sticking out a bit too much but it could be the angle of the pic. Its a lovely holder regardless.

 

Did you use some kind of a stabilizer (like this Steady Rest) while turning the shaft?

 

Salman

 

Thanks Salman, I appreciate it! I did not use anything like the Steady Rest but only because I didn't know about it!!! You can bet that I'll be working on one of those this weekend. A device like that would be a tremendous help in turning these things to narrow diameters. Thanks for the link.

 

I noticed what you were talking about re: the flange. Hopefully, it's the angle. Here's a photo of the foot of the pen. Let me know what you think.

 

http://i1349.photobucket.com/albums/p743/hzsimms/1caecdde-90b6-41b4-a6cb-6891ac5735e5_zps5764c8f0.jpg

 

BTW, got my Irwin utility knife this weekend and am in pursuit of the right piece of wood. Thanks for your help!

 

Howard

[hzsimms]

Howard, that is most excellent work! Absolutely breathtaking, and I very we'll know the hours of work (and stress) that go into making something of this caliber. Beautiful job indeed!

 

Thanks Brian. You need to check out that Steady Rest that Salman linked to. Really neat little device!

[hzsimms]

Holy Moly Howard... that's one good looking piece!

 

If you listen real close... I bet you can hear Ralphie's Mom saying, "You'll put your eye out with that thing!"

 

LOL! At least my son hasn't started chasing after the dog with it. Yet. I put in some of "them fancy little circle thingy's" just for Stompie!

[smk]

 

Thanks Salman, I appreciate it! I did not use anything like the Steady Rest but only because I didn't know about it!!! You can bet that I'll be working on one of those this weekend. A device like that would be a tremendous help in turning these things to narrow diameters. Thanks for the link.

 

I noticed what you were talking about re: the flange. Hopefully, it's the angle. Here's a photo of the foot of the pen. Let me know what you think.

 

>> picture removed <<

 

BTW, got my Irwin utility knife this weekend and am in pursuit of the right piece of wood. Thanks for your help!

 

Howard

 

Howard - it was the angle. The flange looks good, and the holder even better that before, in this picture.

 

I'm glad you are all set with the utility knife. I hope it works well for you. I like the slight angle in the grip, which is something a good carving knife would have. I have enough blades for a few projects, I hope to have gotten my hands on a proper knife by then.

 

I'll be looking forward to your experiments with the carving with great anticipation. I find Walnut is a good one to start with as it is close grained enough to allow detailed work without being too hard.

 

Salman

[MusinkMan]

Here is one that I just completed...a carrot-sized grip and foot with a longer handle. Handle is fiddleback maple, grip is Bubinga, and the foot is Ebony, with a little sim. ivory finial to crown it on the end of the handle.