Twsbi: In Case You Have Problem With Your Twsbi Pen

[mikehodgman]

I will point out at this stage that at no point did TWSBI ask for evidence or examples of this issue. They also failed to offer to cover half the cost of shipping until one of the last emails they sent me (never offered in my first lot of emails after I recieved the pens, and only offered after they had started ranting and raving at me). On top of this TWSBI also reneged on a promise to replace the nibs, in one email promising to send out new nib units and the next calling my a liar.I fully accept that some of the cost to have the pens repaired might be on me. But the issue became how TWSBI was treating me as a customer, how abusive they have become (especially when I wasn't asking thrm anything but simply illistrating there might be a current QC issue with the number of pens being reported with issues), and a general inconsistant manner of addressing issues (Some customers getting replacement nib units sent out without any issues, others getting a run around and left out of pocket and others again seeminglg being ignored).

 

Harlequin: See above. TWSBI did not offer to pay for half the shipping until very late in our emails. This was after they were ranting at me and after they had reneged on other things they had promised previously. The issue isn't the cost, it's TWSBI's treatment of some customers and the uneven way they deal with issues.

 

Part of your issue here might have something to do with the fact that as you were going through the process of working out your issues, you were also posting it for the world to see on FPN. Not saying it validates how you were treated (it doesn't), but if I'm someone trying to make a living, I wouldn't be in a hurry to help someone trashing my reputation online.

 

I've been lucky though. I've had 5 TWSBIs and all the nibs were great. If I'd had a few bad ones, I'd probably feel a little differently to be honest.

[lahlahlaw]

Hi,

 

I think that when it comes down to it, email isn't a perfect system. I've had cases when lots of emails from certain senders seem to get "lost" or disappear without explanation or not even end up in my spam folder. Gmail has an automatic filter that removes messages that are "definitely" spam, but it puts the rest of the messages that are like spam but not into the junk folder. It's better than most, granted, but I had a time in uni where all of my professor's emails got lost or tossed into my spam.

 

Also, TWSBI nibs are made by Jowo or Bock. I'm pretty sure the nib collars and feeds aren't made by them either. Most manufacturers are like this, they buy their nibs from Jowo or Bock. In these nibs, baby bottoms and other defects are from the Jowo or Bock and not usually the manufacturer of the pen itself. Sometimes it can be difficult to track a problem with the nibs and feeds of these things until some time has passed. I don't know if anyone remembers the whole fiasco about six years ago when many companies that use the Bock #6 nib got a run of defective feeds for their pens. Among the affected were Taccia, Stipula, and Bexley and a number of other brands. Nibs would just stop writing randomly and stop and start erratically, be starved, or start skipping. These were very frustrating, and many people swore off certain brands of pens, and I spent months trying to figure out what could be done to these feeds. In the ends, I requested a stockpile of new feeds, and I replaced feeds that had the issue that came into my shop. I, of course, had customers who were sick of sending their pens back and forth and just got rid of them. This is one of the things that happened to TWSBI with the Vac 700 initially. Baby-bottomed nibs are another matter altogether. Oftentimes, it is much better to send these to someone who can inspect and test the nibs and is skilled enough to fix them well. Many times, people send baby bottomed nibs to the manufacturer get something just as faulty when they get their pens back since those are nibs the company was provided. The worse though is if the company makes their own nibs and have a tendency to put out a lot of baby bottomed nibs. I think baby-bottomed nibs are the plague of newer pens. Although many pens don't come with them, many do as well. Sometimes I wonder if it is caused because people expect nibs that are buttery smooth, and some manufacturers of nibs overcompensate by overpolishing their nibs to the point that they over round off edges that are supposed to be more squared yet only slightly rounded.

 

Here are some nib tips to compare.

 

First, one that is too sharp on the edges. The sharp edges cut into the paper. This type isn't so common.

 

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3676/9229823919_69c12739d4_b.jpg

 

Now, for a normal nib. Both tines are level, and there is very slight rounding to the edges of the nib slit. The rounding is slightly exaggerated here. More toothy nibs have that part rounded off slightly so that they don't cut paper but have more feedback. These don't skip.

 

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3813/9232606726_a2c1e1a6a7_b.jpg

Now, for a baby-bottomed nib. Make note of the blue line that shows what needs to be ground away to fix this nib. Also note the pink empty space. Ink cannot go through this empty space.

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5467/9229825569_83d17bfaec_b.jpg

 

Now for a misaligned nib. Make note that the rounder the edges, the smoother the nib will be even if the tines are misaligned. Sometime I wonder if since the baby bottom phenomenon allows nibs that are out of alignment to still write without cutting the paper, manufacturers tend to make baby bottomed nibs so that they don't need to worry about aligning their nibs precisely. Also note the empty space. Some of these skip too. In most cases, they just cut the paper.

 

http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5543/9229826427_8c86cef0ea_b.jpg

 

I think this a big issue we face. Make note that people often say that Aurora nibs tend to be more toothy. They tend to round their edges less. I've found though, that in most cases, realignment of the nib often results in a buttery smooth nib that never skips, even in the worse conditions. All of my Auroras, and I have many, both vintage and new are very smooth pens. I didn't regrind any of them. My Montblanc on the other hand has a completely reground nib tip since the original was severely baby-bottomed. Make note that nibs can be made out of alignment just by screwing in the nib unit. I always realign nibs first off the pens to set the general alignment, then do fine tuning once the nib has been set and installed to ensure everything is in alignment. Also note that nibs can have perfectly polished surfaces and still write without skipping. All of my pens that I have reground or own have perfectly mirror-finished surfaces, but none of them skip at all. Also note that there is a continuum of possibilities between sharp, normal, and baby-bottomed. The corner radius of the edges of the tips can vary, and there is no single formula for all nibs. How rounded the inside of the tip can be before the pen skips varies depending on the feed installed as well as the width and taper of the nib slit. One must know what exactly what they are doing when adjusting nibs. I also recommend using old film without an emulsion or plastics to adjust the nib slit of amateurs instead of using a razor blade. Damage to the interior surfaces of the nib slit is difficult if possible to repair and can cause other problems besides cosmetic damage. Plastic can be more gentle and more effective at solving the problem. If you need some plastic shims from emulsionless developed photography film, I still shoot film in addition to digital, and I can probably drop a few small pieces in the mail for you to help you out.

 

In the end, I think these problems, especially nib problems can be hard to figure out without some experience. I wonder why some companies like Pilot have an incredibly high yield rate of good nibs, especially such that they can make disposable fountain pens with excellent quality tipped nibs. In all their pens that I have seen with fine nibs, very few of them needed adjustment to write smoothly without skipping out of the box. In fact, none of the Pilot pens in my collection, whether modern or vintage, needed any adjustment to write well, and I haven't adjusted them at all since they somehow came out of the box all perfect. I think they must be doing something right. I have had good luck with Montblanc pens made by Mutschler, but a lot less luck with their modern nibs. Montblanc nibs are the ones I see most often for adjustments instead of regrinds. I see far more Bock and Jowo nibs for custom regrinds since many pens have them (most of them were writing perfectly. The owner just wanted them to write differently). I'm a Pelikan dealer, and with Pelikan, depending on the age of the pen and type of nib, different nibs have different tendencies. In many cases, there are runs of nibs that happen to have certain tendencies over others but still are "in spec" but don't work properly. Also, since everyone is different, nibs are necessarily different as well, and one nib that doesn't work properly for one person might be okay for another person to use, and a nib that is too sharp for one person can be perfect for another. I happen to know someone who likes really sharp italics with only slightly rounded corners. They work really well and smoothly for me as well, and I can also write quickly with them, but most other people I know want more rounded off corners than I do and consider this person's perfect nib "too sharp." People have different writing pressures, different angles of attack, and different ranges of rotation that they put their nibs through. These must be all accounted for when making and grinding a nib for a customer. Last but not least, for professional work, the work has to look good as well as perform well. One should not be shy or embarrassed of posting huge macro images of nib tips that not only write well, but are are beautifully shaped and polished.

 

Dillon

Thank you for taking the time to write this.

[nomadhacker]

Agreed. Dillon that's a great illustration. Thanks for taking the time to illustrate the problems for everyone.

[kpyeoman]

Just to play Devil's Advocate, I'll take TWSBI's side here (and notice this is purely hypothetical, I am not insinuating anything, so no one try to make my comments out to be doing that).

 

A customer claims he received 3 different pens with three different nibs and they were ALL faulty "from the box". TWSBI, I have to believe, is of the opinion that their pens passed their QC tests, as they said. So as far as they are concerned, the pens were working just fine when they left the factory/shipping point/whatever. Now, if that is the case, there are only three reasons why they wouldn't work when the customer gets them- something happened during shipping (not likely but possible), the customer messed each one up in succession but won't admit it (very likely), or magic (also not very likely). Expecting TWSBI to just bow down to every single, highly unlikely (in their opinion) instance of someone claiming that their product was 100% faulty across a spectrum of nibs and models, is simply naive.

 

Was that in fact the case here? No clue. But do I fault TWSBI for perhaps thinking that and balking at assuming the entire cost for everything like this customer wanted? Not at all. Additionally (and you can reread the threads to be sure, as I did), it was the customer in question who was keen on sending via courier, not TWSBI, so that point is completely invalid.

 

Simply put, unless I am mistaken, TWSBI's solution (which is probably pretty standard) is for the customer to send the pen back to them and they will repair or replace it. In this case, the customer wants special exceptions to be made b/c that solution is expensive for him and he doesn't trust the normal mail system. With a global customer base, it frankly is not TWSBI's problem where you live or if you trust your government's mail. IIRC, the pens were sent originally via FedEx perhaps to avoid issues like that. To even just send out replacement parts to someone they (more than likely) think messed up the nibs to begin with makes even less sense, since that kind of customer will do the same thing and then still demand a replacement or repair (sent at TWSBI's cost).

 

Just finished reading this entire thread. Harlequin, I don't believe it's appropriate for you to be engaging in the debate about this topic, given that you're the moderator of this sub-forum. This is an understandably contentious thread that does require monitoring and potential moderation. I don't feel that you've been sufficiently neutral in your comments and would ask that you stay out of debates like this in the future. You need to have an objective position if things get heated so that everyone feels like they've been treated fairly.

 

All in all, a very interesting thread and I thank everyone for providing their differing perspectives and experiences.

[Harlequin]

I thought about that before I posted some of my comments. But being a moderator does not mean I am not allowed to have (or express) my own opinions. If you feel that a moderator does something that is "out of line", by all means report the posts in question.

[kpyeoman]

I have no interest in "reporting" you or comments from this post. I value your efforts in the role and appreciate the time you volunteer for it. I felt the need to say something to encourage some self reflection as you grow in the role.

 

A moderator is essentially a referee. Referees observe the game that they're playing in, and no doubt have their own, personal opinions related to the game. However, referees don't play in the game they're observing to maintain their actual and perceived objectivity. This is a key aspect of the role.

 

Being a referee doesn't mean you aren't allowed to participate in other games that you're not responsible for, though...

 

Food for thought.

Edited August 19, 2013 by kpyeoman

[Harlequin]

I have no interest in "reporting" you or comments from this post. I value your efforts in the role and appreciate the time you volunteer for it. I felt the need to say something to encourage some self reflection as you grow in the role.

 

<snip>

 

I hope you didn't take my comment to mean that. It was more of a general thing, more to say if you see ANY mod post something you feel may be inappropriate for the topic or in other ways, report it. All of the mods see those reports and we discuss them, so it does actually tend to bring things to light.

[Fabienne]

I can't see why Harley should be prohibited from saying his peace. He is a member just like us and has added many valuable comments to a lot of threads. I would feel the poorer if I didn't have his thoughts, and I have not agreed with everything he has said, either. But his reflections are even handed, sensible, and thought provoking. I see him as being a fully mature moderator in all ways.

 

My experiences with TWSBI have been great. I have had trouble getting my 540's started, They cracked and each time Phillip and Speedy have taken care of me very well indeed. HOWEVER, I have done my bit to be polite and cooperative as possible. I know what it's like to be a retailer and a manufacturer and admire their daring-do in starting a first class pen company.

 

The 540 with their slightly flexy Bock nibs are among my most favorite pens!

 

My Mini has not caused me any trouble at all but my 580s had fierce baby bottom which was taken care of immediately by Phillip. But he was contacted politely (and he responded with very good manners) and I paid some of the shipping as a gesture of good faith. Both of my 580s work like magic now.

 

Trust me that making goods is fraught with Murphy's Law, and it's a lot easier to do just about anything other than design and manufacturing yourself. It's the designers and manufacturers who are the real heroes of industry. If you don't come up with it and you don't make it, You end up with a much less prosperous society. So, I support enterprising guys like Speedy and Phillip...long may you wave! I am looking forward to your next offering and I will be front and center to buy one.

 

Trust me, not even Mont Blanc gets it right every time; and there might be a bit of art as well as science to making fountain pens, even in the 21st century.

Edited August 19, 2013 by Fabienne

[Harlequin]

I'd like to ask that everyone refrain from posting more comments regarding the point that kpyeoman raised, at least in this thread. I'd rather not derail this conversation by opening up a completely unrelated subject. But by all means, feel completely free to post a new topic on it if it is a subject someone wishes to discuss further; but to continue commenting in this thread on that subject would really "hijack" it unnecessarily.

[Fabienne]

OK, point taken.

[amberleadavis]

@Dillon - Thank you for the images about nibs.

 

All - I'm a dedicated TWSBI pen user. The pen I would use instead is a Pelikan M200 series, but until the most recent sale, the Pelikan M205 demonstrator was at a price point of $170. Thus, no matter how you sliced it, you could buy multiple TWSBIs for the price of a single Pelikan M205.

 

For me, the price was just the initial factor. My M205 needed adjustments and tweaking also. The next consideration was the fact that I could pull the pen apart and fix it. I can Frankenstein my TWSBI collection for decades.

 

I would highly recommend a TWSBI - I give TWSBIs as gifts - and I use my TWSBIs every day.

[Bill Wood]

Imagine this ! This whole thread becomes a moot point if the plastic that TWSBI uses is of better quality - and the nibs are sufficiently tested. If that costs me another $50 then all is good. I'm sure Phillip and Speedy are getting tired TOO. imagine sending countless sections and new nibs on a weekly basis. Change the materials and problems might be over for a long time.

[PMG92]

I have bought multiple replacement nibs for the twsbi 580, used several different wet inks, cleaned the pen everytime. But the pen just doesnt write more than half a page and then gets dry and starts to skip. It is nice of them to send a replacement nib but at the end of the day their pens just don't work like they should imo. When you look at their feeds you can easily see that the ink channel is too small and that is the case for all 6 different nibs I had to buy including the one they sent me. For the time, effort and money I had to put in the pen I could have bought a much better pen. It frustrates me because the pen writes really well for half a page and is definitely worth your money. I hope they fix this in their new models.

[amberleadavis]

I have bought multiple replacement nibs for the twsbi 580, used several different wet inks, cleaned the pen everytime. But the pen just doesnt write more than half a page and then gets dry and starts to skip. It is nice of them to send a replacement nib but at the end of the day their pens just don't work like they should imo. When you look at their feeds you can easily see that the ink channel is too small and that is the case for all 6 different nibs I had to buy including the one they sent me. For the time, effort and money I had to put in the pen I could have bought a much better pen. It frustrates me because the pen writes really well for half a page and is definitely worth your money. I hope they fix this in their new models.

 

 

I have a silly question.... did you open the back of the pen when you were writing? I can tell you that I had this problem on all my pistons (not just TWSBIs) and (and my vac). I just didn't expect to have to keep it open when in use.

[msolok]

 

 

I have a silly question.... did you open the back of the pen when you were writing? I can tell you that I had this problem on all my pistons (not just TWSBIs) and (and my vac). I just didn't expect to have to keep it open when in use.

 

You can't open the back of a piston filler (such as a 580). Unscrewing the back moves the piston in the barrel, which pushes out ink. No piston filler should require this while writing. Having to force ink out intot he feed to get it to write indicates there is an issue with the feed getting ink (either through a blockage or through poor design (like ink channel is too small to supply enough ink to the nib)).

 

The Vac700 is different and you do need to unscrew the back. But the VAC700 has a cut off valve which shuts off the ink flow. The piston fillers do not have this.

[amberleadavis]

 

You can't open the back of a piston filler (such as a 580). Unscrewing the back moves the piston in the barrel, which pushes out ink. No piston filler should require this while writing. Having to force ink out intot he feed to get it to write indicates there is an issue with the feed getting ink (either through a blockage or through poor design (like ink channel is too small to supply enough ink to the nib)).

 

The Vac700 is different and you do need to unscrew the back. But the VAC700 has a cut off valve which shuts off the ink flow. The piston fillers do not have this.

 

I may not be describing it correctly, but I was told not to have my piston tightened down all the way (and it has made a difference). The Vac does have the shutoff valve and that was frustrating until I "saw the inky picture".

[msolok]

 

I may not be describing it correctly, but I was told not to have my piston tightened down all the way (and it has made a difference).

 

Hmmm, not sure why that would be. The only thing that unscrewing the blind cap slightly would do is move the piston a little towards the nib and feed and push a little ink into the feed. There really aren't any reason that a well made and designed pen and feed, that is well maintained, would require this.

There WOULD be a slight benefit to poor feeds which don't have good ink flow as it is forcing ink into the feed to be used. But once that ink is used the issues would resurface.

 

The downside of unscrewing it slightly means that the blind cap is easier to move accidentally. This could be from just knocking the cap or grabbing it by the end of the pen etc. The result of that is obviously the ink coming out and splattering the page/yourself.

 

In effect the piston mechanism of a TWSBI pen is the same that is most twist converters, but bigger. Converters don't need to be slightly unscrewed a bit to write, and there is no reason a TWSBI SHOULD.

[amberleadavis]

 

Hmmm, not sure why that would be. The only thing that unscrewing the blind cap slightly would do is move the piston a little towards the nib and feed and push a little ink into the feed. There really aren't any reason that a well made and designed pen and feed, that is well maintained, would require this.

There WOULD be a slight benefit to poor feeds which don't have good ink flow as it is forcing ink into the feed to be used. But once that ink is used the issues would resurface.

 

The downside of unscrewing it slightly means that the blind cap is easier to move accidentally. This could be from just knocking the cap or grabbing it by the end of the pen etc. The result of that is obviously the ink coming out and splattering the page/yourself.

 

In effect the piston mechanism of a TWSBI pen is the same that is most twist converters, but bigger. Converters don't need to be slightly unscrewed a bit to write, and there is no reason a TWSBI SHOULD.

 

See that's the problem with being mechanically challenged - I can read what you tell me - nod appreciatively - and still have the blank look. I was advised to do this on my Pelikan 200 series and it made a difference. I wish I could explain, but I didn't actually understand. At the time I posted my "What am I doing wrong" thread, I was ready to give up on FPs completely. The thread is what turned me on to TWSBIs. I think I now own more 540s than any one else in Nevada.

[msolok]

 

I think I now own more 540s than any one else in Nevada.

 

AH! I think we may have stumbled upon the reason you were having the issue with your pens and why that solved it.

For you it will be a combination of heat, humidity, and the Air-Con

Heat obviously means that ink will dry faster. This can mean that ink in your feed is drying and stopping the flow of ink to the nib.

The lack of humidity will also increase the speed at which ink dries. The water will be 'sucked' into the air faster.

 

So by you priming the feed (twisting the blind cap to move the piston and force some ink into the feed) you are effectively jump starting the pen. There is wet ink available in the feed again so you can write without any troubles.

 

For most people this won't be an issue and shouldn't be required. Just with your environment it will be required

[amberleadavis]

 

AH! I think we may have stumbled upon the reason you were having the issue with your pens and why that solved it.

For you it will be a combination of heat, humidity, and the Air-Con

Heat obviously means that ink will dry faster. This can mean that ink in your feed is drying and stopping the flow of ink to the nib.

The lack of humidity will also increase the speed at which ink dries. The water will be 'sucked' into the air faster.

 

So by you priming the feed (twisting the blind cap to move the piston and force some ink into the feed) you are effectively jump starting the pen. There is wet ink available in the feed again so you can write without any troubles.

 

For most people this won't be an issue and shouldn't be required. Just with your environment it will be required

 

 

YOU ARE SO SMART - I EVEN UNDERSTOOD WHAT YOU ARE SAYING!!!