Why Does The Twsbi...

[FoszFay]

Yo,

 

I've been seeing everywhere since the release of them, people reporting that the barrel cracks and several other parts of the pen, why?

 

I mean, (every?) other pen company makes demonstrators but I never hear that they crack, what is the difference between TWSBI and others, do they use different materials?

 

I know TWSBI use plastic, but do the others use something like polycarbonate or what?

 

Thanks,

Tom.

[superfreeka]

Pen gremlins.

[gks]

  On 3/7/2013 at 8:32 PM, FoszFay said:

Yo,

 

I've been seeing everywhere since the release of them, people reporting that the barrel cracks and several other parts of the pen, why?

 

I mean, (every?) other pen company makes demonstrators but I never hear that they crack, what is the difference between TWSBI and others, do they use different materials?

 

I know TWSBI use plastic, but do the others use something like polycarbonate or what?

 

Thanks,

Tom.

 

"everywhere" is a bit of hyperbole.

 

Most users never see it crack. Those that do are likely much more prone to complain publicly.

 

For what it's worth, TWSBI's 540 has been one of the most widely suggested pens I have ever seen. If you ask for a great introductory pen, there isn't a thread that goes by that doesn't mention the 540. People wouldn't suggest it if it was as bad as you seemingly make it out to be.

 

They also stand by their products, I've yet to see anyone say they haven't been taken care of by Speedy. Good customer service is hard to find, and yet, they seem to provide it all the same.

[Sallent]

They crack because they are cheap Taiwanese junk. European and American pens never crack because they are made of finer materials. I've never had an American or European pen crack with the exception of:

 

1) My Pelikan M400 White Honey whose cap cracked and had to be replaced twice.

 

2) My Pelikan M200 Old Style which developed a crack on the barrel thus forcing me to buy a second barrel

 

3) My vintage Waterman 52 1/2 which decided to crack all of the sudden after surviving decades without any problems.

 

4) My first Esterbrook J which decided to spontaneously begin cracking all over the cap one day for no reason at all.

 

5) My first Monteverde also decided to crack after a few weeks of ownership.

 

 

Ok, I have probably owned about 100 fountain pens in my life, and only 5 have cracked on me. But the point is that if you buy enough fountain pens, sooner or later you are going to have 2 or 3 pens crack on you. It happens even if you only buy high end brands. Every company, no matter how good the materials and the quality, produces a lemon once in a while.

 

Dude, TWSBI is an awesome little pen. Name me another company that produces Vacuum fillers and Piston Fillers of that beauty, quality, and reliability at those price levels? None.

 

They are getting their act together, and each new pen is more reliable and better made than the model it replaced. They are bound to have a few teething problems at first, but they overcome them. Also, their customer service is top notch, and they will stand behind their product. If your pen cracks, it will be replaced or fixed immediately. Not many companies are that nice or stand like that behid their products. But the bottom line is, no matter how good they get, if you buy enough of them then sooner or later you'll get one with problems. No product can be 100% perfect all the time, but the TWSBI guarantee will cover you should that ever happen.

Edited March 7, 2013 by Sallent

[paultyler_82]

  On 3/7/2013 at 8:32 PM, FoszFay said:

Yo,

 

I've been seeing everywhere since the release of them, people reporting that the barrel cracks and several other parts of the pen, why?

 

I mean, (every?) other pen company makes demonstrators but I never hear that they crack, what is the difference between TWSBI and others, do they use different materials?

 

I know TWSBI use plastic, but do the others use something like polycarbonate or what?

 

Thanks,

Tom.

 

The secret is, TWSBI, before they became TWSBI was involved in manufacturing plastic pen bodies for other pen companies. Speedy's never said who they made them for, but there have been guesses made. The Diamond (530/540/580) design was relatively different from anything they made for other companies and the parts that crack do so from stresses that that part is subjected to. In order to remedy the situation, the newly revised 580 uses metal sleeves and collars at certain points that were known to crack on earlier designs and removed the metal piston differential gear housing collar which may have contributed to overstress and cracking during disassembly and reassembly. Hopefully, these revisions should solve the problems once and for all. The Mini is obviously going to have to be revised as well, it seems that cracking reports on the Mini have been more plentiful than the 540. The Vac700 hasn't had any cracking reports that I am aware of, but it has a different design and isn't subjected to the same stresses in key areas.

Edited March 7, 2013 by paultyler_82

[imahawki]

I'll choose to NOT ignore your question. They crack because of the design and plastic properties. What I mean is it is a combination of the plastic's properties (hardness, tensile strength, etc.) and how the pen is designed (when you screw the cap on does it put pressure on the threads, when you turn the piston knob does it pull hard on the metal inside the barrel end, etc.)

 

I have three 540s. One is the ROC100 and I don't use it. I'm considering selling it. For some reason I thought it might be some rare collectors item but that doesn't appear to be the case. Any way, the other two have both cracked. So I have a 100% failure rate for 540s that I've actually used. One cracked in back of the barrel and the other in the cap. In both cases yes I WAS taken care of. However, there are other popular pens and you don't see the constant reports of cracking. The Lamy Safari is probably owned in larger numbers overall and is equally recommended as a starter pen. I own 3 and none of them have cracked.

 

People get defensive of TWSBI because it seems to be a forum pet brand and because frankly Speedy IS a very good guy. But they do crack and in my unscientific OPINION, crack at a higher rate.

[jjdeal]

I loved my TWSBI 540...broad nib, great, smooth writer. BUT, it cracked... now it is in a pen pouch with others...I just don't use it anymore. I am disappointed, too, because it really was one of the best writing pens I owned. Oh well....

[K. Cakes]

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:18 PM, imahawki said:

 

People get defensive of TWSBI because it seems to be a forum pet brand and because frankly Speedy IS a very good guy. But they do crack and in my unscientific OPINION, crack at a higher rate.

 

+1

I understand many people on FPN have a soft-spot for TWSBI and Speedy, but I also have a 100% failure rate for TWSBIs and don't really understand all the love.

 

I have no idea why they crack, or why its so difficult to correct the cracking. The only other pen that has ever cracked for me is the Preppy...

Edited March 7, 2013 by K. Cakes

[gks]

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:29 PM, jjdeal said:

I loved my TWSBI 540...broad nib, great, smooth writer. BUT, it cracked... now it is in a pen pouch with others...I just don't use it anymore. I am disappointed, too, because it really was one of the best writing pens I owned. Oh well....

 

Have you contacted them to get a replacement? You should try.

 

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:40 PM, K. Cakes said:

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:18 PM, imahawki said:

 

People get defensive of TWSBI because it seems to be a forum pet brand and because frankly Speedy IS a very good guy. But they do crack and in my unscientific OPINION, crack at a higher rate.

 

+1

I understand many people on FPN have a soft-spot for TWSBI and Speedy, but I also have a 100% failure rate for TWSBIs and don't really understand all the love.

 

I have no idea why they crack, or why its so difficult to correct the cracking. The only other pen that has ever cracked for me is the Preppy...

 

I haven't had any issues with mine. As do many others. Again, the vocal people are typically those who have problems. Of course, Speedy has taken care of every one that I have seen post issues on FPN.

[BT-7274]

All of the cracking on the 5xx models makes me wonder, what makes the vac700 NOT crack? Clearly, something went right when they designed and built that pen, as I've yet to see anyone say a word about it cracking.

 

I'm discounting any flow issues, as those can usually be solved with a wet ink and some know-how on nib adjustments.

[GallBladder]

Interestingly I have a 50% failure rate with marriages, so I suppose I could extrapolate and conclude that if my personal experience is crappy, why so must everyone else's..... except it does not work that way.

Heresay and anecdotal evidence is never offered as proof of anything and should remain just opinions which have a lot of personal meaning, but not necessarily universality, e.g. my having a 100% success rate with TWSBIs is rather meaningless, as it is just anecdotal evidence.

 

I'm not a plastics expert, nor a pen manufacturing process expert, so I can not offer you (the OP) a technical reason for the failure of some TWSBI pens. I also do not have in my possession the statistics to be able to conclude they crack more or less than other pens, perhaps others do.

[JonSzanto]

Every time I see one of these threads pop up, all I can think of is the old "Are you still beating your wife?" line of thinking. Nothing ever gets settled, and it ends up looking like The Disgruntleds vs. The Fanbois.

 

Wash, rinse, repeat.

[UK Mike]

The TWSBI 540 has an injection moulded polycarbonate barrel and cap, whereas most other pens (MontBlanc included) use acrylic resins (Perspex). Polycarbonate has a higher tensile and impact strength than acrylic when used under the correct conditions.

 

When you injection mould polycarbonate, it is easy to get residual stresses after the moulding process and any stress raisers such as metal inserts, rings etc can cause this stress to release in the form of cracking. In most injection moulded polycarbonate engineering applications, the finished component is given a stress relief process in hot water. Either this process is omitted on the 540 or the mould design is such that the stresses are considerable and microcracks may already have formed prior to assembly. Polycarbonate is also sensitive to moisture content both prior to moulding and in service. When extruded or pressed, polycarbonate is one of the strongest plastics in service, however it needs very careful treatment to retain these properties when injection moulded. It is known to absorb moisture which in severe cases will adversely affect its strength and also its optical clarity. Modern polycarbonates have been engineered to obviate some of these problems but the inherent properties of the material remain.

 

Acrylic pens are usually manufactured from extruded or cast material and because of its physical properties and lower tensile strength, residual stresses are not so much of a problem. Surface hardness is generally higher than polycarbonate and it is easier to polish to a high shine - so shiny that some people could even call it a "precious resin", in spite of it being exactly the same as everyone elses acrylic in its physical properties.

 

Very cheap pens are sometimes moulded from polystyrene or in the case of Lamy I believe they use polypropylene, which don't suffer so much from residual stress but have their own limitations in use.

 

In summary, the problems with TWSBI 540s lies either with the material, the design of the pen, the design of the mould, the manufacturing process and possibly also the service use.

 

The 580 WILL be better.

[K. Cakes]

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:48 PM, gks said:

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:40 PM, K. Cakes said:

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:18 PM, imahawki said:

 

People get defensive of TWSBI because it seems to be a forum pet brand and because frankly Speedy IS a very good guy. But they do crack and in my unscientific OPINION, crack at a higher rate.

 

+1

I understand many people on FPN have a soft-spot for TWSBI and Speedy, but I also have a 100% failure rate for TWSBIs and don't really understand all the love.

 

I have no idea why they crack, or why its so difficult to correct the cracking. The only other pen that has ever cracked for me is the Preppy...

 

I haven't had any issues with mine. As do many others. Again, the vocal people are typically those who have problems. Of course, Speedy has taken care of every one that I have seen post issues on FPN.

 

 

I disagree. People are vocal on both sides, but it seems that every time someone does have a problem they are put off as haters or simply disgruntled. For those that like TWSBI, fine. They're inexpensive, the swappable nibs are great, and they're piston fillers. Adding the history with FPN I completely get why people are fans.

My point is that all of mine have cracked. The one I gifted to the daughter of a family friend cracked. All were Minis which supposedly had improvements to prevent cracking. On top of that, one of the nibs I received was so scratchy it dug into the paper and caused feather on every paper I tried, and a few weeks later the piston completely broke.

Just because other people don't have problems doesn't mean that is always the case. And I don't understand why people get so defensive when we speak about the numerous, legitimate issues we have.

Edited March 7, 2013 by K. Cakes

[amberleadavis]

  On 3/7/2013 at 11:18 PM, UK Mike said:

The TWSBI 540 has an injection moulded polycarbonate barrel and cap, whereas most other pens (MontBlanc included) use acrylic resins (Perspex). Polycarbonate has a higher tensile and impact strength than acrylic when used under the correct conditions.

 

When you injection mould polycarbonate, it is easy to get residual stresses after the moulding process and any stress raisers such as metal inserts, rings etc can cause this stress to release in the form of cracking. In most injection moulded polycarbonate engineering applications, the finished component is given a stress relief process in hot water. Either this process is omitted on the 540 or the mould design is such that the stresses are considerable and microcracks may already have formed prior to assembly. Polycarbonate is also sensitive to moisture content both prior to moulding and in service. When extruded or pressed, polycarbonate is one of the strongest plastics in service, however it needs very careful treatment to retain these properties when injection moulded. It is known to absorb moisture which in severe cases will adversely affect its strength and also its optical clarity. Modern polycarbonates have been engineered to obviate some of these problems but the inherent properties of the material remain.

 

Acrylic pens are usually manufactured from extruded or cast material and because of its physical properties and lower tensile strength, residual stresses are not so much of a problem. Surface hardness is generally higher than polycarbonate and it is easier to polish to a high shine - so shiny that some people could even call it a "precious resin", in spite of it being exactly the same as everyone elses acrylic in its physical properties.

 

Very cheap pens are sometimes moulded from polystyrene or in the case of Lamy I believe they use polypropylene, which don't suffer so much from residual stress but have their own limitations in use.

 

In summary, the problems with TWSBI 540s lies either with the material, the design of the pen, the design of the mould, the manufacturing process and possibly also the service use.

 

The 580 WILL be better.

 

Thank you for taking the time and effort to explain the differences.

[FoszFay]

  On 3/7/2013 at 9:58 PM, gks said:

  On 3/7/2013 at 8:32 PM, FoszFay said:

Yo,

 

I've been seeing everywhere since the release of them, people reporting that the barrel cracks and several other parts of the pen, why?

 

I mean, (every?) other pen company makes demonstrators but I never hear that they crack, what is the difference between TWSBI and others, do they use different materials?

 

I know TWSBI use plastic, but do the others use something like polycarbonate or what?

 

Thanks,

Tom.

 

"everywhere" is a bit of hyperbole.

 

Most users never see it crack. Those that do are likely much more prone to complain publicly.

 

For what it's worth, TWSBI's 540 has been one of the most widely suggested pens I have ever seen. If you ask for a great introductory pen, there isn't a thread that goes by that doesn't mention the 540. People wouldn't suggest it if it was as bad as you seemingly make it out to be.

 

They also stand by their products, I've yet to see anyone say they haven't been taken care of by Speedy. Good customer service is hard to find, and yet, they seem to provide it all the same.

I don't think I made it out bad, it was a question, I don't remember saying it is a bad pen...

 

Tom.

[FoszFay]

  On 3/7/2013 at 11:18 PM, UK Mike said:

The TWSBI 540 has an injection moulded polycarbonate barrel and cap, whereas most other pens (MontBlanc included) use acrylic resins (Perspex). Polycarbonate has a higher tensile and impact strength than acrylic when used under the correct conditions.

 

When you injection mould polycarbonate, it is easy to get residual stresses after the moulding process and any stress raisers such as metal inserts, rings etc can cause this stress to release in the form of cracking. In most injection moulded polycarbonate engineering applications, the finished component is given a stress relief process in hot water. Either this process is omitted on the 540 or the mould design is such that the stresses are considerable and microcracks may already have formed prior to assembly. Polycarbonate is also sensitive to moisture content both prior to moulding and in service. When extruded or pressed, polycarbonate is one of the strongest plastics in service, however it needs very careful treatment to retain these properties when injection moulded. It is known to absorb moisture which in severe cases will adversely affect its strength and also its optical clarity. Modern polycarbonates have been engineered to obviate some of these problems but the inherent properties of the material remain.

 

Acrylic pens are usually manufactured from extruded or cast material and because of its physical properties and lower tensile strength, residual stresses are not so much of a problem. Surface hardness is generally higher than polycarbonate and it is easier to polish to a high shine - so shiny that some people could even call it a "precious resin", in spite of it being exactly the same as everyone elses acrylic in its physical properties.

 

Very cheap pens are sometimes moulded from polystyrene or in the case of Lamy I believe they use polypropylene, which don't suffer so much from residual stress but have their own limitations in use.

 

In summary, the problems with TWSBI 540s lies either with the material, the design of the pen, the design of the mould, the manufacturing process and possibly also the service use.

 

The 580 WILL be better.

Thankyou, you answered my question, which somehow seemed to go towards me hating on TWSBI, which is not the case.

[FoszFay]

  On 3/7/2013 at 11:50 PM, K. Cakes said:

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:48 PM, gks said:

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:40 PM, K. Cakes said:

  On 3/7/2013 at 10:18 PM, imahawki said:

 

People get defensive of TWSBI because it seems to be a forum pet brand and because frankly Speedy IS a very good guy. But they do crack and in my unscientific OPINION, crack at a higher rate.

 

+1

I understand many people on FPN have a soft-spot for TWSBI and Speedy, but I also have a 100% failure rate for TWSBIs and don't really understand all the love.

 

I have no idea why they crack, or why its so difficult to correct the cracking. The only other pen that has ever cracked for me is the Preppy...

 

I haven't had any issues with mine. As do many others. Again, the vocal people are typically those who have problems. Of course, Speedy has taken care of every one that I have seen post issues on FPN.

 

 

I disagree. People are vocal on both sides, but it seems that every time someone does have a problem they are put off as haters or simply disgruntled. For those that like TWSBI, fine. They're inexpensive, the swappable nibs are great, and they're piston fillers. Adding the history with FPN I completely get why people are fans.

My point is that all of mine have cracked. The one I gifted to the daughter of a family friend cracked. All were Minis which supposedly had improvements to prevent cracking. On top of that, one of the nibs I received was so scratchy it dug into the paper and caused feather on every paper I tried, and a few weeks later the piston completely broke.

Just because other people don't have problems doesn't mean that is always the case. And I don't understand why people get so defensive when we speak about the numerous, legitimate issues we have.

Agreed.

 

If there are problems with pens, or anything for that matter, talk about it, it can only resolve in better evolution of the "not so good" product.

 

Tom.

[speedy]

Thank you Mike for such a good explanation about the different material property between PC and PMMA(acrylic). One more reason that cause the cracking is that the lacquer coating we applied outside the PC surface. PC is very strong but also softer than PMMA, so not very good scratch resistance, the lacquer coating can greatly improve the scratching resistance problem. (you can verify this from the pen you have on hand, they are still shinning like new). If we can make a pen that is strong and shinning all the time, isn't that be super? That's why we keep working on achieving that goal.

 

The solution we use now is to modify the tooling, extend the injection parts length, then cut off the excessive area which contain the cracking starting point (near the injection gate), also adjust the connection metal parts dimensions so not to create strong pressure on PC parts.... By doing so nearly all the cracking issue can be resolved.

 

 

 

 

  On 3/7/2013 at 11:18 PM, UK Mike said:

The TWSBI 540 has an injection moulded polycarbonate barrel and cap, whereas most other pens (MontBlanc included) use acrylic resins (Perspex). Polycarbonate has a higher tensile and impact strength than acrylic when used under the correct conditions.

 

When you injection mould polycarbonate, it is easy to get residual stresses after the moulding process and any stress raisers such as metal inserts, rings etc can cause this stress to release in the form of cracking. In most injection moulded polycarbonate engineering applications, the finished component is given a stress relief process in hot water. Either this process is omitted on the 540 or the mould design is such that the stresses are considerable and microcracks may already have formed prior to assembly. Polycarbonate is also sensitive to moisture content both prior to moulding and in service. When extruded or pressed, polycarbonate is one of the strongest plastics in service, however it needs very careful treatment to retain these properties when injection moulded. It is known to absorb moisture which in severe cases will adversely affect its strength and also its optical clarity. Modern polycarbonates have been engineered to obviate some of these problems but the inherent properties of the material remain.

 

Acrylic pens are usually manufactured from extruded or cast material and because of its physical properties and lower tensile strength, residual stresses are not so much of a problem. Surface hardness is generally higher than polycarbonate and it is easier to polish to a high shine - so shiny that some people could even call it a "precious resin", in spite of it being exactly the same as everyone elses acrylic in its physical properties.

 

Very cheap pens are sometimes moulded from polystyrene or in the case of Lamy I believe they use polypropylene, which don't suffer so much from residual stress but have their own limitations in use.

 

In summary, the problems with TWSBI 540s lies either with the material, the design of the pen, the design of the mould, the manufacturing process and possibly also the service use.

 

The 580 WILL be better.

[UK Mike]

Thank you Sir.

 

I am one of those who has confidence that any problems you might have had with the 540 will be fully resolved in the 580. I know that polycarbonate has significant advantages in strength once the production issues are sorted out.

I hadn't been aware of the lacquer coating but that will reduce any scratching and will help to stabilise the moisture content.

 

One thing that must be praised is the excellent TWSBI Customer Service and the obvious efforts being made to continually improve the product.

 

 

  On 3/8/2013 at 6:46 AM, speedy said:

Thank you Mike for such a good explanation about the different material property between PC and PMMA(acrylic). One more reason that cause the cracking is that the lacquer coating we applied outside the PC surface. PC is very strong but also softer than PMMA, so not very good scratch resistance, the lacquer coating can greatly improve the scratching resistance problem. (you can verify this from the pen you have on hand, they are still shinning like new). If we can make a pen that is strong and shinning all the time, isn't that be super? That's why we keep working on achieving that goal.

 

The solution we use now is to modify the tooling, extend the injection parts length, then cut off the excessive area which contain the cracking starting point (near the injection gate), also adjust the connection metal parts dimensions so not to create strong pressure on PC parts.... By doing so nearly all the cracking issue can be resolved.

 

 

 

 

  On 3/7/2013 at 11:18 PM, UK Mike said:

The TWSBI 540 has an injection moulded polycarbonate barrel and cap, whereas most other pens (MontBlanc included) use acrylic resins (Perspex). Polycarbonate has a higher tensile and impact strength than acrylic when used under the correct conditions.

 

 

 

The 580 WILL be better.