Invitation To Show Off Your Stuff...

[MusinkMan]

Here is some Spence that I was messin' around with this evening

 

[Robinkeys]

Here is some Spence that I was messin' around with this evening

 

Beautiful! I only wish I could write with that skill.

[Seahorse]

So I got my first fountain pen for every day use, threw around some ideas for capital letter forms for some invitations to a wine and cheese night.

(I'll use a flex nibbed fountain pen to make those shaded 'thick' lines in the final)

 

http://i.imgur.com/hSFLEJT.jpg

 

 

Also I guess I may as well put up my pre-fountain pen handwriting.

 

http://i.imgur.com/VPK2bni.jpg

 

I'm rather jealous of the consistency some of you guys have!

Edited June 27, 2013 by Seahorse

[MusinkMan]

Nice stuff, Seahorse! Show us the final when you use the dip pen would ya? What nib are you going to use?

[caliken]

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/spencerian3600.jpg

Edited July 6, 2013 by caliken

[MusinkMan]

Ken, it never ceases to amaze me the way your flourishes sit so perfectly within your compositions. I love the way things just flow around and create a look that demands attention. Fantastic Spencerian! My pen just won't behave like that, I'm still trying to train it. I was thinking of sending it to "Pen Obedience School" if I could find one.

 

Did you use a 358 for this?

[thang1thang2]

Ken, it never ceases to amaze me the way your flourishes sit so perfectly within your compositions. I love the way things just flow around and create a look that demands attention. Fantastic Spencerian! My pen just won't behave like that, I'm still trying to train it. I was thinking of sending it to "Pen Obedience School" if I could find one.

 

Did you use a 358 for this?

 

I'd guess a 357 myself, since that's what he used for your banner.

[Stompie]

Ok, here are 2 samples which I have cropped so you can focus on the writing.

When I look at Kens and Musinkmans stuff and then mine, something is missing and wrong with my stuff but I can not get my head around it!!

Critique please!!!!!

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1589-Copy_zps838522d0.jpg

 

 

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1590-Copy_zps395ccf0e.jpg

[thang1thang2]

Ok, here are 2 samples which I have cropped so you can focus on the writing.

 

When I look at Kens and Musinkmans stuff and then mine, something is missing and wrong with my stuff but I can not get my head around it!!

 

 

I'll take a stab at this. The first image is clearly not "spencerian", in fact it looks closer to italic than spencerian to me. I'll treat it as italic. The reason your italic is different from, say, Kens. Is not only the fact that he's had decades more practice than you (although that IS a large part of it). It's also the fact that Ken's consistency one of the highest levels of consistency I've ever seen. Even several master penman didn't have the consistency he does (in my opinion). Everything he puts out looks like it was typed up on a computer because there's just about zero difference between everything. While others might have used 2-3 different types of 't's or maybe different y's at the end of a word vs at the middle of a word, Ken's calligraphy (from most of what I've seen) is more or less exactly the same from beginning to end of the document.

 

Ken also has very traditional, solid styles of calligraphy. If you see his copperplate, it looks like it's straight out of the Universal Penman. If you see his spencerian, P.R. Spencer himself could've written it as an "exemplar of every day basic hand" (and by every day basic hand I mean, the most beautiful cursive you've ever seen, and you want to go to bed, curl up with a pillow, and cry salty tears into the blankets because you'll never be able to write that good this side of 20 years).

 

Ken's italic, unlike chancery cursive, is a more simplistic, basic and "angular" cursive (I think), and it's one of my absolute favorite styles of italic, if not calligraphy in general. It's so simple and understated and yet amazingly elegant when done correctly.

 

Which ever type of italic you end up trying to emulate in your handwriting in the first image, just try and work on the consistency above all. Speed will come with time, but consistency is the key that makes it beautiful.

 

As for the second image, I think you suffer from a lot of the same things.

 

Consider musinkman, who takes his stuff, completely unadulterated, from various calligraphy sources. And Ken, who also takes his stuff almost completely untouched from various sources; and then, having internalized those sources, creatively experiments in the same vein of what he's internalized, so that his experimental results end up looking identical to the source of his inspiration. All of that creates a very uniform look, so even if it's not perfect in execution, it appears much cleaner.

 

Your slant looks too high, and not like the 52º it's supposed to be. And you have several letterforms that are not consistent at all with what spencerian is "supposed" to look like. (The 'r' in particular stands out to me). As well as far too much shading. Your letters are reminiscent of copperplate blending in some places.

 

The biggest error overall, I would have to say, is the consistency. Your ovals aren't the same size, your capitals aren't the same heights across the board. The shades on your capitals aren't the same thickness. Your angle varies widely among even letters next to each other at times. The loops aren't the same width, etc. It's a good effort, and many will say "oh wow that's so pretty", but if you want to know why it's not looking near the level of musinkman, Ken or any of the other talented people on this forum, I would say the biggest problem is consistency. Even an "awful" handwriting looks very nice, when perfectly consistent. But a great handwriting can look very very poor when it's not consistent in execution.

[MusinkMan]

I gotcha brother...the first example is indeed italic printing. The 2nd one is a hybrid of your own with elements that you've borrowed (mostly from Spencerian, but some elements seem more copperplate-ish). I think every one has been where you are in this, I certainly have! I think the slant should be much more pronounced, and the capitals/majuscules...you'll have to take time to learn them from a book or an exemplar. In my opinion, the thing that is bothering you most is that the capitals do not seem to "fit" in with the Spencerian, and that is because they are not Spencerian majuscules. They are heavily shaded (as we do with copperplate) rather than the odd Spencerian capitals that are surrounded by oval shapes, and have a spine that doesn't swell until it's below the x height (in most cases). Lastly...check your n's and m's, bro. Pull up a spencerian exemplar and a copperplate exemplar. Compare the "hump" of those letters, and you will see a pronounced difference. Because n's and m's are so frequently used, if you change only those letter shapes you will notice an instant improvement! I hope that helps a little.

Ok, here are 2 samples which I have cropped so you can focus on the writing.

When I look at Kens and Musinkmans stuff and then mine, something is missing and wrong with my stuff but I can not get my head around it!!

Critique please!!!!!

 

 

 

[Stompie]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1592_zps2cb4946e.jpg

[thang1thang2]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1592_zps2cb4946e.jpg

Much better!

 

For the 'headings' I would suggest using an different style all together. Formal copperplate, or "draft lettering" type of spencerian. (the type used for large signs). It's basically spencerian with the copperplate style swells all mixed up in there, but done tastefully and it looks awesome.

 

Your capital 't' is very... You. It throws off the spence look considerably. Over all, the capitals could use a re-working to more traditional forms, and letter consistency would be improved from practice (especially the harder letters such as 'r', 's', 'm/n' and c/e). This is, of course, if you are striving for a strictly spencerian look. Other than that? Great improvement in the different samples.

 

If you're happy having a non official spencerian look? You can keep your capitals as they are. I'd suggest cleaning them up, finding 'ideals' and then practicing those. Minimum letters could always have improvement as they're so important to the overall script look.

[caliken]

Here's a small example of Humanist Bookhand

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/hbookhand400.jpg

Edited July 11, 2013 by caliken

[MusinkMan]

Now THAT is some kind of beautiful! I love the quill flourish and the way the left margin follows the lines of the inside shape. Your lettering is so perfectly executed that it's easy to "forget" that this is hand-executed penwork!

[caliken]

Now THAT is some kind of beautiful! I love the quill flourish and the way the left margin follows the lines of the inside shape. Your lettering is so perfectly executed that it's easy to "forget" that this is hand-executed penwork!

Thanks MusinkMan. I like your new 'signature' BTW!

[Adamant]

Ooh, I like this thread already. This was done recently in response to a request on a subreddit to which I subscribe. I consider it one of the best things I've done since I started calligraphy almost 4 months ago (I cannot believe it's been 4 months already!).

 

Request1.JPG

 

And another view:

 

Request5.JPG

 

The whole thing in its entirety:

 

Request6.JPG

 

What pen/ink did you use for this beautiful work of art?

[caliken]

 

What pen/ink did you use for this beautiful work of art?

The quill was drawn with a Gillott 303 nib and Higgins Eternal Ink fitted into a penholder from Unique Oblique Custom Pens . The text was written with a Pelikan fitted with a Richard BInder Itallic nib filled with Parker Quink Black ink.

 

Ken

[MusinkMan]

Ken, the Gillott 303 that you use...is it the modern blue one, or do you use the vintage "brass-looking" ones? One of my customers sent me a vintage Gillott 303 nib and it is soooo good. I love that nib. I was just wondering if you use the vintage stuff or the newer modern nibs?

[schin]

I have just returned from iampeth, do allow me to show off some of my new knowledge from there

Both from a flourishing class.

 

 

[MusinkMan]

Oh My God!!!! OMG OMG OMG. Schin The Pen!!!!! Seriously girl.

WOWWWWWWWW!!!!!