Invitation To Show Off Your Stuff...

[Stompie]

I got me this whole pack of books on it

 

Platt Spencerian

 

and the only one I can find of Sull in the UK is on Amazon and that is second hand for £44!!!!!!!!!!

[MusinkMan]

You can get it here. It's like $17.50 US. I know that Ken orders from them, so I'm sure they will ship to you in the UK. It's a little book, but it has all of the "goods" for a guy like me who is trying to learn. Sort of a "crash course", and you'd love it!

 

http://www.johnnealbooks.com/prod_detail_list/34

 

 

Meantime, I know this is not good lettering on my part, but try it. This is the kind of good, "down home" stuff in the book, and it helps tremendously. Like the first time you start experimenting with his stuff, you're like, "ehhh, not so good". But then when you walk by the page a little later, you're like, "Hey, I think I can get this...it's not bad". Well worth the little bit of funds, and absolutely full of tips and nuggets. If you can't order thru john neal, pm me and I'll see if I can hook you up with a copy.

 

[caliken]

Here's a very old tip that sometimes helps with all of this.

 

When you've completed a page of writing, take a break and then look at it fresh, upside down. When you're not distracted by the actual words, you can sometimes spot little inconsistencies that aren't immediately obvious the right way up.

 

Ken

[Stompie]

Thanks Ken, I tried that - I found Australian recipes! :roflmho:

[thang1thang2]

This is tedious and boring practice. I think it's called "paying your dues". LOL

 

Your brain stores information as associations with one another. You must learn the form of each letter, the shade, where, the points of where the shades end and begin and then relate each and every point to something that you can memorize easily. The more connections one builds, the better. This is why repetition works. You build memory of doing the work, and of slowly improving. However, as you'll eventually get loaded down with the volume, a "high power" session of 20-30 minutes where you start out with perhaps 5 characters with a pencil, striving to get it PERFECT in form, and then five characters with the dip pen, working on getting the form exactly like the pencil, and then five with just working on the shading, getting it all in the right place, and then five working on pulling it all together. If you did all that, you would have 20 characters. And you would be spending almost a minute and a half writing each one, reviewing it, and marking it and seeing where your errors are on it. This accomplishes the "acquire", the "analyze", the "explore" and the "application" part of the learning process in the fastest way. Try it out, I think you'll find that those 20 'l's give you more progress than the 400 l's you did earlier.

 

Now, even if you decide not to do that, I have a bit of an issue with your Spencerian. It's quite nice for a beginner, but I feel like your letters are too crowded. It looks like my cursive, honestly. It's nice and pleasant when executed carefully, but too crowded to breathe properly. The characters aren't allowed to have their own personality, their own flavor, they're all next to their neighbors. it's like living in an apartment instead of a sub-division. How are you supposed to grow grass on a fire escape? You can't, you need a sub-division house for that. Try doubling the length between all of your characters, while keeping them the exact same. Maybe even grossly exaggerate it just for fun, you might like the result. And it will certainly give you practice on that elusive 27-30º connecting upstroke angle.

[Stompie]

Thang, he and I know it is all about repitition repitition repitition - as musicians we learnt that a looooooong time ago! The only way to become proficient at music making is to practice practice practice until all those scales shapes riffs etc are so ingrained that you do them without too much thought.

Hours and hours of fretboard work until the fingers just dance up and down the neck of that ole guitar or keyboard hey Musikman!

 

But we also let off steam every now and then and bemoan the fact that it is boring, time consuming blah blah blah - the sort of moaning our students made when we insisted that "Before we learn anything new today, show me your scales!" :roflmho:

 

That said, now that we are the students it is great that others step in and tell us what we need to hear, Thank you!

[MusinkMan]

Thang, he and I know it is all about repitition repitition repitition - as musicians we learnt that a looooooong time ago! The only way to become proficient at music making is to practice practice practice until all those scales shapes riffs etc are so ingrained that you do them without too much thought.

Hours and hours of fretboard work until the fingers just dance up and down the neck of that ole guitar or keyboard hey Musikman!

 

But we also let off steam every now and then and bemoan the fact that it is boring, time consuming blah blah blah - the sort of moaning our students made when we insisted that "Before we learn anything new today, show me your scales!" :roflmho:

 

That said, now that we are the students it is great that others step in and tell us what we need to hear, Thank you!

 

Musician? You bro?! Whoooaaaa... We gotta do some online stuff. And yes, you are right...guitar is my primary instrument and has been for more years than I care to remember. LOL! This writing stuff is very much like learning to play. It takes repetition, and along with that it takes time for the brain to make all the "connections". This is so much the same process...I'll practice a difficult lick for hours and hours, and it almost seems to get worse as I go along...but give it a day or two of rest, and then I can play it as if by magic. Something happens in the brain over time that "connects the dots". That is likely why in penmanship the saying is "30 minutes' practice per day is better than practicing 5 hours for one day".

 

Now another similarity that I've noticed is that the "early gains" come quickly, same as learning guitar. When you start out, you know absolutely nothing but within a couple of weeks you can play all kinds of cool things. And so it goes, happily improving and having fun until........ you plateau...and you reach that level where the progress isn't so quick...where you've already learned all the "easy stuff", and the gains from now on will be tedious and will require a lot of practice for only small increments of improvement. Because now you are working on things that require patience and technique and speed...the things that separate a seasoned player from a mediocre player. And so it seems with calligraphy and penmanship.

 

Hell, I know I'm in the learning phase, thang1&2. And yep, I know that there are some issues with my Spencerian (since I only got my Michael Sull book 4 days ago). LOL! But you hold on to your hat brother...because I'm going to get this down. Not just in theory either, not just book information and angle quotes; but in practice. Where you can SEE the ink on the page.

[Stompie]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1349_zps6e393bf9.jpg

[mboschm]

Some doodles to warm up the hand

 

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o565/mboschm/DSC_0325_zps252bc566.jpg

 

Thanks again Ken!

 

http://i1148.photobucket.com/albums/o565/mboschm/DSC_0326_zps93e1f54b.jpg

 

Some more "serious" practice.

[vp31]

Lovely!! Like the "S" & its flourishing.

 

 

 

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1349_zps6e393bf9.jpg

[Stompie]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1351_zps02911334.jpg

[MusinkMan]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1351_zps02911334.jpg

 

 

Ohhhh yeah baby! Gillot 303. That thing IS tricky. It's REALLY flexible, eh? Got to be careful or my lines go bananas! Looks nice. Have you tried the oblique handles, or do you stick with the straight ones? I'm in the throes of practicing as I write this. So many little intricacies to remember. But so much fun. That looks great, Stomperoo. Do some more, man! You're going to have to tell me how you get those bottom swells on your lowercase L's. And those super-thin lines. Those things are kicking my @rse!

Edited April 5, 2013 by MusinkMan

[Stompie]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1352_zps7ebf835d.jpg

[mvarela]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1352_zps7ebf835d.jpg

 

Try lowering the angle of the nib to the paper, and also lowering the pressure, maybe?

[Stompie]

It is about as low as it can get. I use oblique holders for 99% of my writing (Musinkman)and have lowered the flange and also, if you look at the hairlines, I had to go over some of them as I am so light on it that they don't always take :roflmho:

 

Hmmmmmmmmm, just gonna have to keep on trying I guess.

[MusinkMan]

Hmmmm...mine isn't really scratchy, but it's soooo sensitive and I have to use such a light touch. I think that I'm not nearly advanced enough to be using that nib. Same with the Leonardt Principal...they've both got hair triggers on them. LOL.

 

Here is something I did today with a Nikko G. I just can't get where I wanna be with this stuff, bro. I guess it just takes a whole lot of practice.

 

 

[MusinkMan]

Stompie,

I went and tried it with the Principal and the Gillot 303. Geeez, those things are sensitive. Not scratchy though. You can see how shaky those thins are due to me having to "write on air". I just don't have good control when there is no nib feedback...I gotta get used to it I guess. My 303 was smooth as silk though, no scatchiness at all. You must have gotten a bum nib?

 

 

 

[Stompie]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1354_zpscbfe972f.jpg

[MusinkMan]

Stompie, you might need to have the nib "canted" a bit toward the holder? I watched the IAMPETH video and adjusted all of my obliques as they described. You probably already did that, but just in case, here is the link:

http://www.iampeth.com/videos/pages/vitolo_adjusting_the_flange.htm

 

Also, these things are temperamental...if those tines aren't fully closed & relaxed when you make a turn, get ready for some trouble. What kind of ink? I'm using Higgins Eternal, and haven't noted any scratchiness. I have two of the 303's, and tried both of them to see if either one was excessively scratchy. I noticed nothing...except the softness of a paintbrush.

 

Man, that's a bummer if you got some bad ones. Did you clean them well and put plenty of spit on them before inking them up? I know you did, because you've mentioned before that you're likely toxic from putting nibs in your mouth so much.

[Stompie]

http://i273.photobucket.com/albums/jj229/Popsjill/pens/DSCN1357_zps56c9036a.jpg