Invitation To Show Off Your Stuff...

[MusinkMan]

Since I can't really show off much of what I do, I'll show off some stuff I got today

 

I had been eyeing some silver ink to work on a little project, and finally decided on Winsor and Newton silver calligraphy ink. By chance, I found a box of 12 gouache tubes for 5Eur, and had to try them as well

This is what the silver (slightly diluted) looks like:

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8523/8602756743_447b4ea0d7_c.jpg

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8110/8602757333_cd7f99a519_c.jpg

 

Since I was writing on black, I only tried the white gouache, but the other colors should prove fun too!

 

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8253/8603858352_1cd26ed677_c.jpg

 

That looks nice, MVARELA. I've never used or tried gouache. Not even sure which kind to get...are there several different kinds of gouache, or is it all the same? I've been wanting to try it though.

[mvarela]

 

That looks nice, MVARELA. I've never used or tried gouache. Not even sure which kind to get...are there several different kinds of gouache, or is it all the same? I've been wanting to try it though.

 

Thanks! It's the first time I've used gouache, as well. I just got this cheap one, poured a bit of it in a makeshift palette, and diluted little by little until it would flow off the pen and give fine hairlines. You should give it a try!

[caliken]

Writing with metallic inks is great fun!

 

Ken

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/MetallicInks600.jpg

[MusinkMan]

Look at that. Ken, I didn't even know there was such a thing. Who makes it?

[mvarela]

Writing with metallic inks is great fun!

 

Ken

 

 

Indeed it is! It's a pity that pictures can't easily show how nicely the ink shimmers...

As usual, Ken, your stuff is amazing!

[caliken]

Look at that. Ken, I didn't even know there was such a thing. Who makes it?

 

A topic entitled "Copperplate with Metallic Inks" was posted in 2008 and as there has been quite a lot of interest, I'm bumping it, now.

This avoids repeating a lot of useful information here. It also avoids deviating from the original Topic subject "Invitation to show off your stuff".

 

Ken

Edited March 31, 2013 by caliken

[caliken]

Here's an interesting script IMO.

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/DanielTAmes600.jpg

[MusinkMan]

That's gorgeous. I recognize the Spencerian elements. Pardon another stupid question...but is this considered a different text/hand, or is this considered Spencerian with Mr. Ames' personal style incorporated? Love the caps, especially the E and the S. and that lowercase p is like a "spike". Absolutely gorgeous and a joy to behold.

 

Thanks also for the bump to the metallic ink thread.

[caliken]

.... is this considered Spencerian with Mr. Ames' personal style incorporated?

 

Yes, it's a condensed form of Spencerian with extended ascenders and descenders.

 

I'm glad that you like it.

 

Ken

[MusinkMan]

I'm working on Spencerian...bought Mike Sull's book as you recommended, but not Vol. II yet...just vol. I. It is helping quite a lot. The Gillot 303 nib you advised is excellent. I had trouble with the Leonardt Principal (on the Spencerian stuff) becuase it was so flexible. I could not get any consistency on my swells. I know that most of that is my shabby penwork, but still...the Gillot was much easier to manage and more "forgiving". The Nikko G seems to be the most forgiving of all, however, it seems to cut my paper fibers and cause bleeding. I've only tried one of the Nikko's so it might be that I have a problematic nib.

 

I'm learning that there is such a sensitive "touch" required to produce consistency in swells, and almost more so to produce consistent finelines. Those Spencerian finelines really do "bring to light" my horrid pen-pressures. That's a good thing though, because if I can see it, I can work on it.

 

And...and...I am working with a pencil...finally. :-) A pencil (as you suggested) really speeds up the process of memorizing the penstrokes and visualizing the finished letters. I'm beginning to see that "visualizaion" of the end result cannot be over-stressed. I really thought that all of those flourishes and offhand things were just "off the top of the penman's head". And while I realize that they are, the penman/calligrapher knows what the finished product will look like. So...I'm working dilligently. Just so many facets to work on in this thing we call Calligraphy.

 

Though my progress is slow, for me, it's not a frustration...it's a fascination! I'm learning to read and study these letterforms without pen-in-hand. Just reading and studying the strokes and the way they interract with the letters. The way that Spencerian is focused on ovals rather than circles. Totally fascinating!

[Mickey]

I'm working on Spencerian...bought Mike Sull's book as you recommended, but not Vol. II yet...just vol. I. It is helping quite a lot. The Gillot 303 nib you advised is excellent. I had trouble with the Leonardt Principal (on the Spencerian stuff) becuase it was so flexible. I could not get any consistency on my swells. I know that most of that is my shabby penwork, but still...the Gillot was much easier to manage and more "forgiving". The Nikko G seems to be the most forgiving of all, however, it seems to cut my paper fibers and cause bleeding. I've only tried one of the Nikko's so it might be that I have a problematic nib.

 

 

Here's a suggestion that might help you. Flatten your forefinger slightly, so that the contact with the pen is nearer the crease between the two pads or even on the second pad, rather than on the finger tip. (This may cause you to move your grip slightly further from the tip.) Situated this way, the entire finger (really the hand) controls the pressure, not that weak, shaky first knuckle. This does two things. It stabilizes the pressure you apply to the nib when not shading and it makes it easier to produce the broad tapered swells of Spencerian. The bigger muscles are allow to do their job without the smaller ones interfering. You may even discover with your first knuckle out of the game, you can even apply fine shades with your hand traveling nearly sideways.

 

Oddly enough, holding the pen this ways makes controlling the flexible nibs easier while allowing stiffer nibs (like the G nibs) to make broader shades.

[MusinkMan]

Thanks Mickey! I'll give it a go in just a minute, since I'm about ready for a practice session anyway. Soon I'll post up some Spencerian endeavors as buzzard bait again. But that's good, tell it to me straight because that's how we learn. I already know that I'm not very good, but I'm not giving up. I want to be a good penman and calligrapher one day, and the sooner the better. LOL

[MusinkMan]

I know this isn't very good, but here is my current progress with Spencerian. Man, it's HARD for me to keep those fine strokes...my pen is trained to flex automatically. It's the tools, it's not me. LOL!

 

Seriously, I will get a handle on this with a couple weeks practice. It's something that I have to be focused and conscious of continually, or that old habit of lightly flexing will appear as if by some kind of demonic spell.

 

And another thing...those weird-o triangles for lowecase t's, d's, p's, etc...I thought it would be a good idea to re-touch them and flatten the tops. Whoaaa! I'm finding out that it's easy to make the things wayyyy too broad when re-touching. Anyway...here is my current buzzard bait. Let me have it...I got big shoulders.

 

 

 

...and ignore that horrid "M" too. LOL

Edited March 31, 2013 by MusinkMan

[Mickey]

I know this isn't very good, but here is my current progress with Spencerian. Man, it's HARD for me to keep those fine strokes...my pen is trained to flex automatically. It's the tools, it's not me. LOL!

 

Seriously, I will get a handle on this with a couple weeks practice. It's something that I have to be focused and conscious of continually, or that old habit of lightly flexing will appear as if by some kind of demonic spell.

 

And another thing...those weird-o triangles for lowecase t's, d's, p's, etc...I thought it would be a good idea to re-touch them and flatten the tops. Whoaaa! I'm finding out that it's easy to make the things wayyyy too broad when re-touching. Anyway...here is my current buzzard bait. Let me have it...I got big shoulders.

 

 

 

...and ignore that horrid "M" too. LOL

 

Do you know what will help about as much as anything: trying to write the letter l repeatedly without shading the down stroke. When you've got that working, try adding just a hint of a shade at the point where the lines cross, but only every other l. Another hint is to really push the push stroke - get used to feel of the finger nails sliding forward - and pulling the pull strokes. Strike the words 'down stroke' from your lexicon. Seriously, learning to write without shades is important*, and learning to write shade free with a really flexible nib builds control. (That shouldn't take more than a couple of reams.)

 

Now that you've got a book, follow the directions, and don't try to run before you can walk. (And don't be afraid to back up a few times.)

 

* Note how few shades there are in the most beautiful Spencerian exemplars.

Edited April 1, 2013 by Mickey

[MusinkMan]

Excellent Mickey. Fixing to start my late nite practice session. The "i"'s have it. heh! Seriously, I'll do pages of i's in just a few minutes. And you're right...trying to run too early. I don't "mean" to flex a lot of that, it just sort of happens. To write monoline thin with a flexy dip pen nib is the hardest thing in the world for me. I have to consciously think about it, and I think this is due to excessive finger movement in my writing.

 

I will do as you say, and this nite (and many others to follow), I will try to write monoline with a Leonardt Principal. I figure if I can do that consistently, then adding shades where they belong will be much easier. A couple of reams, eh? Arrrrgh. LOL! Do you mean one side of the page only for 2 reams? LOL!

 

Well, I'm going into my 3rd week of retirement now, so I will have the time to put into it. I really want to get this. My little Michael Sull book only arrived 3 days ago, so I haven't really had much practice time with it...mostly just reading it and studying the methods. Trying to get an imaging/visualization thing going, as Sull states in the book. Until you have those forms and visualizations in your head, you can't get creative. I'm just copying letters at this point, and trying to rein-in the d@mn swelled strokes. It's kind of funny that I thought the swelled strokes would be the devil to master, but it's the hairlines and thin strokes that wreak havoc.

 

Just you wait...I'm gonna get this. I'm the kind who has to have an in-depth understanding of things before I have the confidence to take off. And I don't learn things with shortcuts, so it takes a bit longer. But once I've got it...IT'S MINE. At least in other things I've been that way...I hope it translates to this skill as well.

 

 

Edit edit...re-read the post...I misread the l for an i. It is a lower case "L" right? It must be; judging from the description you had about shading where the lines cross.

 

OK...good catch there, Musinkman. I'd have been p!ssed at myself if I had written 3 pages of i's for nothing. LOL!

Edited April 1, 2013 by MusinkMan

[MusinkMan]

Well, it's about 600 lowercase L's later, and I still am not very successful at writing it in monoline. That left side always wants to shade even tho I'm trying to prevent it. Every once in a while I would get a good one, but seems like when I concentrate on keeping that ahem....downstroke from shading...everything else goes cattawampus on me. I'm not doing as well as I thought at this. LOL! I think you're right though, Mickey...it's a great exercise. Every once in a while I'll work in a b or an f with it...an h or a k...just to see what happens. And to break the monotony I guess.

 

An hour of L's is about all I can stand at one sitting. My eyes are starting to bug out.

[caliken]

Well, it's about 600 lowercase L's later, and I still am not very successful at writing it in monoline.

Great advice from Mickey. Nothing much to add except for one mindset which helps me. When you're doing your downstroke hairline l exercise, try imagining that you're using a fine sable brush to paint the finest lines: in other words, no pressure. Let the weight of the nib do the work.

 

Ken

Edited April 1, 2013 by caliken

[Stompie]

To 'l' and back mate, quite an adventure eh!

 

Is that latest picture of yours 31 March, not more Copper rather than Spency?

I thought Spencerian was the thin lines with the occassional light shading except on capitals.

[Mickey]

Well, it's about 600 lowercase L's later, and I still am not very successful at writing it in monoline.

Great advice from Mickey. Nothing much to add except for one mindset which helps me. When you're doing your downstroke hairline l exercise, try imagining that you're using a fine sable brush to paint the finest lines: in other words, no pressure. Let the weight of the nib do the work.

 

Ken

 

Similarly, think about moving the last two fingers (where they contact the page), rather than the nib. In an earlier thread, Ken said something about the final two fingers tracing the letters in parallel with the nib (I paraphrase). I think it's a great image. It keeps the fingers quiet. Remember, light pressure on the forearm*, less pressure on the last finger (or 2 fingers), and almost no pressure on the nib.

 

Don't be disheartened. Hairline down strokes may be the biggest technical barrier to writing good Spencerian and why it is probably easier to fake Copperplate than Spencerian. (The two hands are equally difficult to do properly.) Shades are relatively rare in Spencerian, but more dramatic. It's kind of like carrying a hair-trigger revolver with your finger on the trigger. You need to learn not to twitch.

 

* If you need to steady your body, lean on your non-writing arm. Keep the pressure on the writing arm low.

[vp31]

Lovely script!!

 

 

Here's an interesting script IMO.

 

http://i226.photobucket.com/albums/dd289/caliken_2007/DanielTAmes600.jpg